Retrospective: The 1980 Olympics

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    Next up on the retrospective on World Championships & Olympics in the lead up to the 2012 World Championships is the 1980 Olympics - one of the most controversial ever.

    The low down on the key facts from this competition is as follows:-

    • Huge controversy over Anett Pötzsch winning the Gold medal. Many still believe that Linda Fratianne should have won, whereas others (including myself) believe that Denise Biellmann should have won as she had yet again been held back by the School Figures. Here is an article which goes into the controversy in some detail: Article - Sonia Bianchetti This article refers to one by Doug Mattis called "Does The Pig Have Wings" which I read many years ago, but no long seems to exist on the internet. If anybody does know where a copy exists on the net, please do post a link to it. That way, people can read two different sides to the debate (albeit that given the nature of the controversy and the fact that at least 3 different skaters could have won the Gold, there are many more sides to the argument than that)
    • Linda Fratianne was the first Ladies figure skater to successfully execute 2 different kinds of triple jumps (done in an earlier competition) - the triple toe loop and the triple salchow. Like Biellmann, she suffered from the continued presence of the compulsories during her era, but nowhere near to the same extent.
    • Robin Cousins wins Gold. However, he would only win Silver at the following world championships and would never ultimately become a world champion. Like Biellmann, he was yet another casualty of the School Figures. However, he won the short program and free skate decisively enough at the 1980 Olympics to overcome his 4th place finish in the compulsories.
    • 1978 World Champion, Charles Tickner, overcame his disappointment at finishing fourth at the 1979 World Championships, to win Olympic bronze.
    • 1979 World Champion, Vladimir Kovalev, could only finish 5th in the compulsories and withdrew from the competition
    • Irina Rodnina wins her third consecutive Gold medal in the pairs, making her one of the most successful figure skaters of all time. She won her first Olympic gold in 1972 with Alexei Ulanov and then won her next two with Alexander Zaitsev.
    • 1979 World Champions, Tai Babilonia and Randy Gardner, were the favourites going into the Olympic pairs competition. However, Randy Gardner suffered a groin injury which worsened in the month leading up to the Olympics. Hence, when the pair stepped onto the ice for the warm-up, he found that he could not apply any weight onto his leg. Accordingly, Babilonia and Gardner had to withdraw. Extremely unfortunate.
    • After winning Gold at both the 1978 and 1979 world championships, Natalia Linichuk and Gennadi Karponosov win Olympic Gold in the Ice Dance. Like Cousins, however, they would win only silver at the 1980 Worlds. Consequently, they became the only ice dancers to ever fail to retain their world title after having won the Olympics.
    • The 1980 Olympics were staged at Lake Placid in New York. This was the second time that Lake Placid had held the winter Olympics. The first was in 1932 where Sonja Henie won the second of her three Gold Medals in the Ladies competition.

    Here are the videos from the Olympic competitions of the gold, silver, & bronze medal winning performances from all 4 disciplines:-

    Mens

    Gold: Robin Cousins - GBR

    Short Program

    Free Skate

    Free Skate - Another Copy

    Silver: Jan Hoffmann - East Germany

    Short Program

    Unfortunately, no video exists of Jan Hoffmann's free skate. Should anyone know where one exists on the net or can upload a copy to YouTube, please do so

    Bronze: Charles Tickner - USA

    Short Program

    Free Skate

    Ladies

    Gold: Anett Pötzsch - East Germany

    Short Program

    Free Skate

    Silver: Linda Fratianne - USA

    Short Program

    Free Skate

    Gala

    Bronze: Dagmar Lurz - West Germany

    Short Program

    Free Skate

    Gala

    4th: Denise Biellmann - Switzerland

    Short Program & Free Skate

    Free Skate

    Gala

    Pairs

    Gold: Irina Rodnina & Alexander Zaitsev - USSR

    Short Program

    Long Program

    Silver: Marina Cherkasova & Sergei Shakhrai - USSR

    No Video's Available - If anybody knows of any on the net or is able to upload them on to YouTube, please do so.

    Bronze: Manuela Mager & Uwe Bewersdorf - East Germany

    No Video's Available - If anybody knows of any on the net or is able to upload them on to YouTube, please do so.

    Ice Dance

    Gold: Natalia Linichuk & Gennadi Karponosov - USSR

    Free Dance

    Silver: Krisztina Regőczy & András Sallay - Hungary

    Free Dance

    Bronze: Irina Moiseeva & Andrei Minenkov - USSR

    Free Dance

    Hope you enjoy!!

    Postscript: If anybody has video's for the medal winning performances from the 1976 Olympics, please if you can upload them on to YouTube. For example, Dorothy Hamills free skate from the 76 Olympics used to exist, but no longer
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2011
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  2. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    As a 10 yr. old, the 1980 Winter Olympics was the very first skating competition I ever watched. Memories!

    I recall how heartbreakingly close Linda was to Annett and I think there was a certain level of expectation that she was going to win. After all, she had gone to Fassi over the past summer to work on her figures and the competition was in the US.

    In the women's event, my only quibble was that I thought that Anett's marks were a little high in the SP w/ a 2-2 only and an off-axis 2x, skating to Jutta Mueller's choreography. That may have made the difference between gold and silver. Linda rightfuly won the SP, and Denise won the LP. I also remember Emi taking herself out of contention with a botched jump combo in the SP [I re-watched it recently and it didn't look as bad as I thought, and I wonder what the deduction at the time for a non-fall mistake on a jump in the SP was?].

    In the men's event, Robin Cousins was scintillating and just squeaked past Jan Hoffmann. I felt bad for Tickner who was stronger than '79 in the figures. It looked like he had a real chance with Kovalev tanking and withdrawing and only Hoffmann in front of him. Yet, he blew it in the SP :(

    The biggest tragedy was in Pairs: Tai and Randy withdrawing while trying to warm up the SP. I remember they were skating in the 4th position [early], they went out to try the SBS 2flips and he kept crashing. :( I was a 10 yr. old and really upset! The pairs lost a lot of drama with the competition basically set as a coronation for R/Z, although Rodnina's emotion on the podium was special.

    I don't recall Ice Dance all that much, but weren't the Hungarians much better received than Linichuk / Karponosov?
     
  3. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    I don't remember much about the 1980 Olympics, but three events left indelible impressions on me-

    1.Tai crying back stage when she and Randy had to withdraw

    2.Irina Rodnina's tears of joy atop the pairs podium, after winning her 3rd straight OGM in pairs

    3.Denise Biellman doing what is now known as the Biellman spin
     
  4. A.H.Black

    A.H.Black Well-Known Member

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    Here's another video - Robin Cousins exhibition performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpGOA3l57TY&feature=fvst

    I'm not usually a huge fan of show skating but this is one of my all time favorite skates. Great flow and wonderful choreography. Too bad the ABC version isn't on youtube. Dick Button loved this performance and so did Jim McKay. A small piece of trivia - the two young children at the end of the Michael Jackson number giving flowers to Robin are Dick Button's children and his wife is in the background.

    I also think this number makes a great argument for show skating to be performed in full lighting. I don't think I would like it near as much in spot lights.
     
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The men of that quad were similar to the women of the Lynn quad after Seyfert retired. Amongst the men the best free skaters in order were usually Cousins, Tickner, Hoffmann, and Kovalev, but figures were just the opposite usually Kovalev, Hoffmann, Tickner, Cousins, which meant any of them could win if they delivered their best over all 3 portions. As it turned out though Hoffmann skated really well in Lake Placid, he actually was 2nd in the long program (ahead of Tickner who skated well, and who usually beats Hoffmann in the long program) and still was passed by Cousins overall, so in retrospect I am not sure if Tickner could have done any better than 3rd here even had he done his best in the short program. He had a better shot at the 79 Worlds.

    Linichuk & Karpanasov did not deserve to win. They skated their worst free dance performance ever probably including a blatant trip/stumble. The Hungarians were behind but should have far outscored them in the free dance and pass them. Moiseeva & Minenkov also should have beaten them in the free dance portion but were too far behind after compulsories and the OD to place higher than 3rd. The crowd booed the result, and were strongly behind the Hungarians.
     
  6. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    I'm not sure how to rank the ice dance couples. Linichuk & Karpanosov were so ahead of the field in both the compulsories and to a lesser extent OSP. That FD was pretty uninspiring though and their cookie-cutter style had gotten very very tiresome for me (I found it to be such a massive chore to even watch them). But there's no question that they had the most difficult FD and technically, they were most the most proficient team of that time. Yes, Gennady was a weak skater but so were Szallay and Minenkov. I personally like Moiseeva & Minenkov's FD the best but their compulsories were pretty weak. The Hungarians had such an energetic style that was very easy to get into but I found their choreography to be rather simple. Artistically, there's no doubt though they and Minnie/Mo were superior to L&P. I guess I'm sort of ok with the end result but I could understand any order of the podium without too may complaints.
     
  7. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    I remember the big fuss over Fratianne getting silver instead of gold. At one point I remember reading that Linda's mother wanted to sue for potential lost revenue in Linda's professional career.

    In watching the videos I don't see where Linda "wuzrobbed". Neither one of them is sublime. I think Anett's jumps are bigger, while Linda is a little more flowing, but not by much on either count.

    It certainly has eaten away at Frank Carroll.
     
  8. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't paying close attention to skating in 1980 or even really until the early 90s. (I did in the mid-70s when I was skating myself, but then I lost track.)

    I believe that the maximum short program deduction in the 1980s was 0.7 -- not sure if that was for a complete omission or if it would also apply to something like a fall on the first jump of a combination. Less difficult elements might have had lower maximum deductions; the jump combination was definitely where you could lose the most points.

    Other deductions would have been proportional between 0.1 for a very minor error to 0.6 for serious or multiple errors not quite as bad as the worst possible.

    I'm guessing somewhere around 0.3 for that particular error:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAwU6-pjTJg
     
  9. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Really? I don't recall having read that. If anything, there was tremendous animosity from the Fratianne camp against Fassi's backstage machinations with the various German-speaking judges to ensure a win for Poetzsch and a medal for Lurz (partially as tit-for-tat to ensure a win for Robin Cousins). It didn't matter that there was East and West Germany...political lines were blurred. Fassi embraced all Germanies!

    Did Linda really train figures with Carlo Fassi? Can anyone confirm?

    I totally agree about the Hungarians being hugely robbed in the Ice Dance. Even to this day, I can't quite look at L/K in a Kiss n' Cry without thinking of this travesty.
     
  10. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    The endless :drama: and :wuzrobbed that this result still creates is not the free but the SP results. Many think that Anett was waaaay overmarked in the SP for what was essentially a popped combo and a very skary double axel while Linda skated clean as a whistle in her usual blah way.

    We've had more than a few threads on this competition over the years and a while ago I did some :COP: and it wouldn't have mattered if Anett was two or even three places lower in the SP. (It would have swung a couple of judges Linda's way but Anett would still have won 5/4.) Under the total points system of the time, the damage was done in the figures not the SP.
     
  11. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    floskate,

    Was the "distribution", as follows?

    Figures - 30%
    SP - 20%
    FS - 50%
     
  12. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't vote for either as Olympic champion. There must have been a better free-skater in that competition! That is the person who was robbed whether it was by politics or figures.
     
  13. Louise

    Louise Banned Member

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    The old Fassi/Linda/Frank/Poetsch theory... I think it was Sandra Loosemore, a very intelligent and knowledgable FS fan wrote up how it was just NOT POSSIBLE for Carlo to have made any kind of backroom deal.
    Yes, Linda went to Carlo to work on her figures, since that was the one tangible thing that Anett did much much better. Carlo wanted Linda to stay with him through the Olympics, but her loyalty was to Frank. Even so, if she had stayed, I'd have believed that Carlo would have sacrificed his new pupil Linda to make sure his crowned jewel, Robin Cousins, at the time won. Linda was screwed either way.

    I don't believe Frank Carrroll believes in the conspiracy theory somehow orchestrated by Fassi. His girl was American, did her job, but lacked so much in charisma and figures.

    I forgot about Linda's mom threats about a lawsuit for future revenue, but it's all coming back. Who was she going to sue? Fassi? The IOC? What a joke.
     
  14. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 29, 2011
  15. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I love Robin Cousins and Moiseeva&Minenkov.
    I haven't rewatched ladies.
     
  16. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    If people have no problem with Trenary coming 5th in the 1990 Worlds SP with a measley double toe-double toe combo (had she come even one spot lower she would have lost the gold to Ito, and many skaters below that did a triple combo) then there shouldnt be that much uproar over Poetzsch coming 4th in 1980 with a double loop-double toe combo. After all the 1980 standards are much lower than the 1990 ones. The big names always have a higher base mark than mediocre skaters like Lurz or unknown skaters like Lenz.
     
  17. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^In regards to many posts above:

    IIRC, Fratianne had indeed improved in Figures by '80, but still found herself in 3d. Poetzsch was 1st and had marks in the mid-4's, not quite Schuba-ish, but she had quite a command of that portion of the competition.

    I remember the final marks were Poetzsch - 11/189.00; Fratianne - 16/188.30 which was a 7-2 split for Poetzsch, BUT I think a majority of the judges who put Poetzsch 1st had her only 0.1 - 0.2 above Fratianne, An increase in Fratianne's score in the SP [I think she was undermarked slightly. She was perfect in that segment of the competition, doing an incredible for that time 3sal - 2loop; high 2x and nailed every non-jump element], plus knocking Poetzsch down a couple of tenths [where she belonged] may have made a difference. Total Points determined final ordinals and ultimately placement back then.

    Ex of Judge marks back then [I made up the no's to show how it worked, but they are indeed representative of the type of marks that each skater got from any given judge back in 1980, IIRC!]-

    Anett Linda
    CF 1 4.4 4.0
    CF 2 4.5 3.9
    CF 3 4.6 4.2
    --------------------

    13.5 12.1

    divide total by 2.5 [CFs were worth 30% of the comp score, so 2.5 was the factored no.] =

    5.4 4.84

    SP (T) 5.4 5.8
    (A) 5.5 5.8

    --------------------------
    10.9 11.6

    divide judge's mark total by 2.5 [SP was worth 20% of the comp score, so 2.5 was the factored no.] =

    4.36 4.64

    LP (T) 5.6 5.8
    (A) 5.6 5.9
    ----------------------------
    11.2 11.7

    LP was worth 50%, so the marks for LPs were 'raw', no factored no.


    Add up the no's for each segment above

    Anett Linda
    CFs 5.40 4.84
    SP 4.36 4.64
    LP 11.20 11.70
    ---------------------
    Total 20.96 21.18

    This judge would've assigned Linda the first place ordinal and Anette the second place ordinal by 0.22. And IIRC, several of the judges had them this close: a tenth here and there would've flipped the ordinal and made the gold and silver different.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2011
  18. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the detailed explanation.
     
  19. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The judges who had Annett over Poetzsch in the end by 0.1 and 0.2 would have had to change their short program mark by 0.3 to 0.5 to have had Fratianne ahead though. Only the long program marks directly are worth that, the short program scores were only 40% the value of the long program scores. Also Poetzsch's SP scores in Lake Placid were lower than Jill Trenary got in her SP at the Worlds TEN years later for doing an even easier combination.
     
  20. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Umm, I saw lots of 3T- double combos until after the 1990-91 season, not much different than in 1980. The notable exceptions were Ito, Harding, Yamaguchi, and Trenary ... Trenary, of course, regressing from 3F-double attempts to 3T after she believed her figures were enough to keep her lead going into the Freeskate.
     
  21. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Bartoob here.

    Apart from Ito, Harding, Yamaguchi and Trenary, the top 18 skates from the 1980 Olympics are available on Youtube.

    Many of the lower ranked ladies after figures, had triple jumps to spare. Skaters like Ivanova, Dubravcic and Reideger included 4 or 5 triple jumps in their free skates alone.

    Admittedly, this was before the Zayak rule, so that would account for the multiple triple toe loops and salchows.
     
  22. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm. You've given me an idea. I was going to increase Linda's SP scores by 0.1 across the board and decrease Annett's by 0.1 just to see what the tallies would be. Isn't there a site that lists all of the scores from every olympics?
     
  23. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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  24. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Thank you so much for posting this link. If I could pin point a performance that transformed me from a casual skating fan pre-1980 to a "fanatic", it is this exhibition by Robin Cousins.
     
  25. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Very few skaters have combined mastery, emotional range and performance level - with the ability to convey that to the audience - as Robin did.
     
  26. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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  27. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    Cherkasova & Shakhrai:

    SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35kSvTVCeks
    LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcOjtMYdTNo&feature=mfu_channel&list=UL

    Mager & Bewersdorf:

    LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0MsgFDdFYk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

    I do have their SP but the video quality is shocking. They skated clean but you're not missing much. ;)
     
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  28. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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  29. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    OK. Not as busy at work ;)

    Scenario #1 - Linda's scores in the SP were low IMO [even if she won the SP]. I increased each mark by 0.1 on each judge's card, technical mark and artistic mark [except the ITA judge who already gave her a 5.9 for artistry; I wasn't going to give Linda a 6.0]. Annett's scores in the SP were too high IMO. I decreased each mark by 0.1 on each judge's card, technical mark and artistic mark

    new LF range in the SP - tech: 5.7 - 5.9; artistic: 5.8 - 5.9 [hit everything including the 3sal-2loop]
    new AP range in the SP - tech: 5.3 - 5.5; artistic: 5.4 - 5.6 [2-2 only; off axis 2x, and nearly in tears in the K & C]

    CFs and LP the same

    Linda wins ironically on a 7-2 split. She flips the judges from West Germany, Austria, Finland, Italy and Switzerland, and keeps the judges from the US and Japan. Score - 11 ordinals / 188.98 vs. 16 ordinals / 188.28 for Annett.

    Scenario #2 - Linda's scores were high enough [not IMO, but...], but Annett's marks considered high. I drop only Annett's marks on each judge's card by 0.1. Linda's stays the same.

    CFs and LP the same

    Anett wins infinitesimally on a 5-4 split. Linda only flips the judges from Finland and Switzerland and keeps the US and Japan judges. Linda only loses the West German judge by .02, the Austrian judge by .04, and the Italian judge by .06 :(. Score - 13 ordinals / 188.28 vs. 14 ordinals / 188.30 for Linda. Linda actually beats Anett on raw numbers but only has 4 judges a la Jan Hoffmann in the men's event.

    Imagine FC in that scenario :lol:
     
  30. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I thought Linda's marks in both programs were plenty high enough. I never considered her a 5.9 caliber skater to be honest. Also she won the short program decisively, over a more talented skater like Biellmann who also skated cleanly, what more could one want.