Retrospective: The 1968 Olympics

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Jan 21, 2012.

  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Gaby Seyfert's retirement in 1970 has been discussed.

    Anyone know why Tim Wood retired in 1970, not going on to 1972 Sapporo? He would definitely have contended. Also, US men were fine in 1972, but maybe not quite as strong as Olympics past.
     
  2. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Button's comment that Tim's skating needed more variety of tempo. Tim skated with the same fast speed for the entire 5 minutes regardless if the music playing was slow or fast. It's interesting that he only attempted one triple. Did the men back in those days only do a 1 triple max program? Who was the first man to do multiple triples in a LP ?
     
  3. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    Regarding Tina Noyes, she is right in that a lot of pressure was placed on young juniors in the aftermath of the 1961 crash. Tina was one of those skaters and actually performed in the skating benefit held in Boston which was hosted by Dick Button and had Ted KEnnedy in attendance reading a message from his brother JFK (you've probably seen clips of that). Tina was only 12 at the time but she was already landing huge double axels and did so in that exhibition. Remember that ladies double axels in the early 60's were not common. A lot of top ladies never had that jump. She was the chosen one I think; she was the one with all the pressure heading up into seniors and that had to have had an impact. Fleming was barely on the radar back in 1961.

    ETA: Gary Visconti really was one terrific free skater. His LP from Worlds just two weeks after this was even better!!
     
  4. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jan 24, 2012
  5. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    If you search the archives, there was a thread a while back that discussed gabby and Tim both. Very similar situations iirc.

    1972 men's was similar to ladies. Nepala was 4th in the fs but won due to his big lead in figures. John misha petkovich was the Janet Lynn of us men, stunning free skater, always behind in figures. He was 2nd in fs but 6th in Figures and finished 5th. Ken Shelley was 3rd in fs but 5th in figures so ended up 4th, like he did in pairs, but I think there was a much stronger wuz robbed case to be made for him in pairs.
     
  6. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/wo/tim-wood-1.html

    That was still the true amateur era of Olympic sports (in the West, at least). Training cost money, and there was money to be made by turning professional.

    Also, staying amateur meant committing to many hours of training figures. If you follow the first link in skatesindreams' post upthread, you'll see he was spending four hours a day doing figures before the Olympics.
     
  7. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    Tim did do triple toe loop as well in 1969 and 1970 Worlds. Petkevich could do sal, loop, toe and apparently lutz but never did it in competition. He planned it at Worlds in 1970 but doubled. He usually stuck with sal and loop and usually botched one or the other. He was still incredible though. Even Nepela had a consistent sal and toe. I think the real race for triples started in the early 1970s with skaters like Kubika who was the first afaik who landed four different triples in a LP (1974 US Nationals). Ronnie Shaver, Gordie McKellen and Jan Hoffmann had 3 different triples in their LP's in the 1972 - 76 quad (including triple lutz for Hoffmann which he landed in 1974). McKellen also tried triple axel at the 1974 Worlds. Curry and Cranston had sal and loop and both added the toeloop for the 1976 season. After that Minoru Sano landed 5 triples at the 1977 Worlds, Taylor had all 6 triples (including his wonky 3x at 1978 and 1979 Worlds) but never really landed all of them consistently in the same program and Hoffmann stayed in and had 4 triples excluding flip but even then you could get by on sal, loop and toe (see Cousins 1980). I think it was the changing of the guard in 1980 that ushered in the lutz era and by 1983 Worlds most of the guys were doing triples through lutz. Orser and Boitano changed all that again after Hamilton retired and by 1988 triple axel was a must and the quads had started. :)
     
  8. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Before the 80s guys were really discouraged from doing a lot of triples. Button is famous for pulling off the first ever and at an Olympics, but legend has it that the judges advised him not to risk it. A lot of the "pioneers" who did land them often ended up way down in the standings and top skaters like David Jenkins who could land a beauty of a 3x never dared include them in competition. Figures were king and it wasn't until 1984 that the habit of each oly champ landing harder and harder jump content took off. Casey Edwards would have had an absolute breakdownback in the 50s 60s 70s :lol:
     
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  9. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    The USFSA discouraged men from doing triples as being too flamboyant - only appropriate for "shows"/exhibitions.
    David Jenkins has talked about how he became an "outcast" in the sport for many years.
    Listen to his interview in Manleywoman's skatecasts.
     
  10. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Allison's podcast with rob Paul also confirmed that he did indeed coach Peggy as well as choreograph.
     
  11. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    That I didn't know. Many thanks - here is the link.

    By rights, Tim Wood SHOULD BE THE 1968 OLYMPIC MEN'S CHAMPION - and in my mind, was the real winner. Its a real shame what happened. Moreover, what happened has become even more upsetting and galling in recent times given the nature of the simply dreadful postscript to this event, as set out in the attached articles - articles which speak for themselves:-

    BBC Article

    Article - The Sun

    What I find striking when I read about Tim Wood is that those who mention that they actually know him, always make a point of stating what a really nice person he is. Hence, not only was he the real winner in my mind, but he would have made a very worthy official one. Peggy Fleming used her Olympic victory as a platform for becoming one of the sports great ambassadors. Just think what Tim Wood would have been able to do had he been the official Olympic champion - probably as much as Dick Button.
     
  12. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Despite Flemming's program being mistake-filled, I still think it's quite beautiful to watch. Watching her move and spin and glide is worth gold.
     
  13. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    I've now been through the autobiography. Its been very difficult to translate from German into English, so apologies for any errors. Here are the key extracts as to why she retired:-

    Hope I translated it correctly. Again, apologies for any errors.

    There are quite a number of new videos on YouTube of the 1968 Olympics. Hence, I have redone the videos section from the first post as follows:-

    LADIES

    Gold: Peggy Fleming - USA

    Free Skate

    Free Skate - 2nd Version

    Free Skate - 3rd Version

    Free Skate - 4th Version

    Silver: Gabriele Seyfert - East Germany

    Free Skate

    Free Skate - 2nd Version

    Bronze: Hana Maskova - Czechoslovakia

    Free Skate (Complete)

    Free Skate - 2nd Version - short clip at beginning of video

    4th: Albertina Noyes - USA

    Free Skate

    Free Skate - 2nd Version

    5th: Beatrix Schuba - Austria

    Free Skate

    6th: Zsuzsa Almassy - Hungary

    Free Skate

    9th: Janet Lynn - USA

    Free Skate

    MENS

    Gold: Wolfgang Schwarz - Austria

    Free Skate

    Silver: Tim Wood - USA

    Free Skate

    Bronze: Patrick Péra - France

    Still no video available

    4th: Emmerich Danzer - Austria

    Free Skate

    5th: Gary Visconti - USA

    Free Skate

    6th: John Misha Petkevich - USA

    Free Skate

    9th: Sergei Chetverukhin - USSR

    Free Skate

    PAIRS

    Gold: Ludmila Protopopov & Oleg Protopopov - USSR

    Free Skate

    Free Skate - 2nd Version

    Silver: Tatyana Zhuk & Aleksandr Gorelik - USSR

    Free Skate

    Bronze: Margot Glockshuber & Wolfgang Danne - West Germany

    Free Skate

    4th: Heidemarie Steiner & Heinz-Ulrich Walther - East Germany

    Free Skate

    5th: Tamara Moskvina & Alexei Mishin - USSR

    Free Skate

    6th: Cynthia Kauffman & Ronald Kauffman - USA

    Free Skate

    Free Skate - 2nd Version
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  14. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your translations; and other additions to this thread.
    I suspect that few of us can appreciate the pressure(s) placed on Seyfert by the East German "machine" at the time; aside from the expectations of her mother!

    I wish that someone had Pera's performances to share/add.
     
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  15. Judge Dred

    Judge Dred New Member

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    Janet Lynn's international debut. Wonderful. Had not yet even competed at a world champs previously.
     
  16. suki

    suki New Member

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    Maofan,

    You are my hero (or heroine):respec:

    Where did you obtain all these videos? And of such high quality? I became interested in skating because of the 1968 Olympics. I haven't seen some of these in 44 years. A million thanks!!!!!! And a perfect row of 6.0s for you!!!!!
     
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  17. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    suki, you might be interested in fsvids.net.
    Someone else made these clips available on YouTube.
     
  18. viennese

    viennese Well-Known Member

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    This is fascinating stuff. Before my time. My mother and aunts were really into figure skating, big fans of Peggy Fleming and loved watching skating and skiing on TV.

    They followed all the 1968 Olympic coverage and even made a scrapbook of clippings of Tina Noyes, Peggy, all the US skaters. I wish I still had it.

    Because of the TV coverage of these Olympic games, my cousins, brothers and I were all, as soon as we could walk by ourselves, laced up in skates and put on the ice.
     
  19. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    I wish you did, too.
    I watched all that US TV broadcast at the time.
    However, I didn't save articles. My 14 year old self didn't know how valuable they would be.
     
  20. suki

    suki New Member

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    Thank you for the link, skateindreams. I am proud to say that I still have my Peggy Fleming scrapbook, which covers both her amateur and professional career. It's a piece of my childhood, just like my teddy bear (which I still have, no laughter, please).
     
  21. sbanet

    sbanet Well-Known Member

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    Great thread, thanks to all who fished up these vintage clips. :)

    My favorite lady of the 1968 era is Hana Maskova :glamor:. There is a bit of other-worldliness to her skating. :swoon: :inavoid:

    I guess for a modern comparison, (IMO) if Fleming and Seyfert were kind of like Kwan vs Slutskaya of their day, then Maskova might be a combo of Sara Meier+Carolina Kostner along with some of the musicality and inner torment of (dare I say) Nicole Bobek?
     
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  22. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    Hopefully, someone will upload a copy soon. Moreover, i hope more footage will surface soon of the 1972 and 1976 Olympics. In the meantime, a big thank you to FSU's Floskate who uploaded the following footage from the 1972 Olympics, which features Janet Lynn, Karen Magnussen, and Trixie Schuba:

    Part 1, Part 2
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  23. Judge Dred

    Judge Dred New Member

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    A very good comparison and Hana died far too young. Before my time, but her tragic death must have come as a tremendous shock to the figure skating community.
     
  24. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    A video of Patrick Pera's bronze medal winning performance from the 1968 Olympics, unfortunately, has still yet to surface. If anybody does happen to have a copy, please could you upload it to YouTube. It is now literally the only missing video re the medal winning performances from the 1968 Olympics.

    Here is a photograph I came across from Pera's free Skate at the 1968 Olympics, and here is a photograph from the medal ceremony.

    Just in case anybody missed the update I posted back in mid-May with the complete set of videos (minus Pera) re the mens, ladies, and pairs competitions, they are contained in post 43 above.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2012
  25. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    This may or may not be a clip from Patrick Pera's free program at the 1968 Olympics (16 seconds in to the video). Not certain, but possibly? Pera finished 7th in the free skate, but his 3rd place in the compulsories was enough to enable him to win the bronze (and keep Danzer, who won the free skate and who was the favourite for the title going into the competition, out of the medals).
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2012
  26. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    Unlike today, judges did not give part credit for less than successful jumps in the 6.0 era. A jump with a step out or two-footed was basically disregarded, except for any possible negative effect on the presentation mark. (Or was it artistry then?) So, you need to go back and measure it's jump content counting only the ones with a controlled, one foot landing.

    Still, I think we can already see the musicality and artistry that set Lynn apart from the pack in her skating.

    I remember watching the 68 Olympics and Peggy F really did captivate the US TV audience. No one at home noticed or cared when she singled a planned double, we just saw that she stayed on her feet and was pretty and graceful. I also quite liked Seyfert (and felt kind of sorry for her having such a ferocious mother for a coach) but to me she was clearly not the performer Fleming was.

    The performance that really sealed it for me was actually Fleming's 68 exhibition skate. She was wearing a longish, white flowing skirt and I can still picture an outside to inside spread eagle she did that has forever defined the elegant and exquisite side of skating for me.

    My other recollection from that Olympics was the Protopopovs. They were far and away the class of the field.
     
  27. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Maofan, I think it is!
    I remember that he wore a turtleneck sweater, unusual for competitors at the time.

    I would really love to find a complete clip of that. (There's a snippet of it in the 1997 Carlo Fassi Tribute)
    She skated to "Ave Maria" in memory of her father.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2012
  28. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    Thanks for confirming. That tells me that there must be footage of the complete program out there in some archive somewhere.

    Here are some more videos from the 1968 Olympics:-

    Jan Hoffmann (East Germany) - Free Skate (Complete) (26th in the Men's competition)

    Sergei Volkov (USSR) - Free Skate (Complete) (18th in the Men's Competition)

    Elena Shcheglova (USSR) - Free Skate (Complete) (12th in the Ladies Competition)

    Galina Grzhibovskaya (USSR) - Free Skate (Complete) (16th in the Ladies Competition)

    Hoffmann was only 12 years old at the time of the 68 Olympics. He is the youngest male skater ever to compete at an Olympics (a record that is unlikely ever to be beaten, given that the current age restrictions are likely to remain in place). Hoffmann went on to win the world title twice (1974 and 1980) and win the Silver medal at the 1980 Olympics.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2012
  29. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    He was so adorable before muller got her claws in him!
     
  30. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    He also was one of the 5 judges on the 94 Olympic ladies judging panel to give his ordinal to Baiul. As a skater who lost the gold medal to the more artistic Cousins, I have admired him ever since for giving his mark to the more artistic skater Baiul.