Requesting the resignation of Ottavio Cinquanta

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by calica, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. ToFarAwayTimes

    ToFarAwayTimes Active Member

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    It seems skaters' names have been dropped from the letter, which I think is a good thing. This is a great petition.
     
  2. ToFarAwayTimes

    ToFarAwayTimes Active Member

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    The more open a process is to the public, the more fair the outcome.

    1. The scoring system must be set up in a way that the public can easily follow along and make their own qualitative judgements that the competition is fair and scored as accurately as possible.

    2. Anonymous judging must be eliminated for the same reason.
     
  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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  4. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    It is very poor petition, done under misleading circumstances and unethical standards.
     
  5. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Active Member

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  6. victorskid

    victorskid Skating supporter

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    I really do wish he would stop lobbying for the return of 6.0. He should concentrate on getting rid of the head honcho.
     
  7. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. 6.0 is an antiquated out of date system. Whilst you may not like IJS, that does not solve the problem.
     
  8. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Well it may be a lot of Cop/ IJS water under the bridge at this point. However, if ISU and all involved had developed and implemented a better scoring system more thoughtfully and advisedly instead of hastily and aggressively with protection of the judges (and appeasement of the IOC) more in mind than improving and enhancing the sport, perhaps they might have been able to incorporate part of the 6.0 brand into a better developed and well-tested IJS. By rushing headlong for the wrong reasons, they've ended up with a complicated miasma that requires constant tweaking and overhauls. Twelve years and counting, the scoring system and many other aspects of the sport still need fixing.
     
  9. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention that a lot of the signers' comments are along the lines of "justice for Yu-Na", which isn't relevant to what the petition is supposedly talking about.
     
  10. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Yes when overwrought emotions get in the way, the main and more important goal gets distracted and more easily thwarted.
     
  11. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    I posted the link to an editorial/summary by George Rossano in the 2014 USFS Governing Council thread in GSD - here's an excerpt that's relevant to this thread:
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  12. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    But what is really the issue? Is it the application or the system itself?

    Myself and many others in the sport, including a number of judges and skaters, have no problem with the system The problems as I see it come in its application and how it is used.
     
  13. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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    Send A Letter of Concern to all ISU Members and Officials

    The following information is provided to make it easy for all skating fans to send emails to all ISU Members and Officials to request they take action to force Ottavio Cinquanta’s resignation.

    Blazing Blades Skating News Blog
     
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  14. snoopysnake

    snoopysnake Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this could get rid of Cinquanta.
     
  15. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Just curious - has a change.org petition ever changed anything?
     
  16. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Well, he certainly has been screwing the ISU for long enough....
     
  17. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    Yes many times. I frequently sign petitions from Aavaz, and Change.org, and from time to time get emails about their successes. One that stand out in my memory is about a girl from I think an African country (can't remember) who was raped and she was to be publicly stoned for having sex out of wedlock. I have no words re the cruelty and stupidity of this, but a world wide petition led to the government stepping in and preventing the stoning. There have been many successes.
     
  18. ToFarAwayTimes

    ToFarAwayTimes Active Member

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    In general I think that's a fair statement. I believe changes need to be made in the scoring system, to simplify it, and also to make sure programs are more clean; however I agree with you that the major problem is the application of the judging rules and technical calls. Imagine playing a basketball game where fouls are only called on one team, and then suddenly that team is only receiving 2 points for three-pointers, and the other team is getting 3 points for two-pointers. There is a scoring system in place and a score exists on the scoreboard, the buzzer sounds and a winner is declared, but nothing more than a farce took place.

    The ways to fix this in figure skating are as follows:

    1. Clean out the dead wood in the leadership
    2. Create an environment that discourages corruption in the future

    The sport cannot move forward with the current leadership in place. Just getting rid of Cinquanta is not enough. Some deputy of his takes over and it's the status quo going forward. There needs to be a popular large scale purge, one to put the fear of God into everyone in the skating community and leadership organizations, that you either align with the new crowd or you get swept away with the old. Names come to light and people get blacklisted. Probably not all of the bad guys get banned but most or all of the important ones do, and then the sport can move forward with a clean slate.

    From there, an environment must exist that discourages corruption in the future. One of the principles of democracy, which should be agreeable to USFS among all federations in particular, is that the more transparent a process is, the less prone it is to corruption. End anonymous judging, and simplify the scoring system -- with that, any discrepancies would be easily identified by everyone at large, and open to immediate and unequivocal ridicule (and one would hope, consequences). This would make cheating a mostly futile effort and discourage it in the first place.
     
  19. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    :rofl: When I went to close the page I got a popup saying "Oh no! You decided not to buy??"
     
  20. Morry Stillwell

    Morry Stillwell Well-Known Member

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    It sure makes one feel good to sign, along with a glass of wine.
     
  21. victorskid

    victorskid Skating supporter

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    Gee, Morry, did you enjoy the wine and sign the petition? Good for you!
     
  22. Morry Stillwell

    Morry Stillwell Well-Known Member

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    Had to finish scheduleing a competition and then I Lost interest after the wine
     
  23. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha - saw that too.

    Is the idea to drill a hole in his brain and implant a chip which makes him like figure skating?
     
  24. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Seriously? 6.0 was basically a pretty simple system - only two marks to award - and the judges weren't anonymous. Neither of those seemed to discourage cheating very much.

    The bigger problems are the lack of consequences for cheating judges and officials, and the unwillingness of the ISU to act decisively and appropriately when cheating is brought to its attention. No judging system is going to be free of bias/corruption under those conditions.
     
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  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Phil Hersh has written a new Globetrotting column titled "ISU boss has driven skating toward a ditch" (can't post link right now):
    Excerpt:
    ETA that his column is linked from his tweet: https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/473486072501243904
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
  26. ToFarAwayTimes

    ToFarAwayTimes Active Member

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    6.0 didn't discourage cheating? What do you think happened in 2002 then? Was it not the easily identified corrupt score that brought scrutiny to a specific person, that caused the cheating to be discovered?

    The more likely the cheaters are to be caught and face consequences, the less people will be inclined to cheat. Right? That's why we have laws and accountability in society, something that seems to be missing within the ISU.
     
  27. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't an easily identified corrupt score. There's no way anyone could look at the protocols and point out one judge's score as being a result of corruption and another as being arrived at honestly, without knowing each judge's thought process.

    What brought scrutiny to a specific person in 2002 was the fact that that person broke down and complained about being pressured to vote a certain way -- by both sides, in fact, telling different stories at different times.

    If she had kept her cool and given good reasons for her decisions in the post-event meeting, there would have been no extra scrutiny.

    As was surely true for whatever other corrupt scores were given in a century worth of 6.0 scoring. Most judges did their best to reflect honest opinions within a subjective system, most were sometimes affected by national bias and federation pressure, some made intentional attempts to prop up their compatriot skaters and sometimes to make deals with other judges. There was no way to look at scores and know for sure whether they were arrived at through corruption -- the only way to know was if judges admitted to judging dishonestly themselves or accused each other of soliciting vote trades, etc., preferably with tangible evidence.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
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  28. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Google "Yuri Balkov" and "1999 world championships pairs judges toe-tapping" if you want to see some more examples of how the 6.0 system didn't discourage cheating.

    And those examples, like 2002, were only caught because they were blatant enough to be caught. We don't know what else went on that was cheating under the 6.0 system but was done cleverly enough not to be noticed.

    Being caught *and* facing consequences are two different things. Right now cheaters seem to not face appropriate consequences even when they are caught. And that was true under 6.0 as well.
     
  29. ToFarAwayTimes

    ToFarAwayTimes Active Member

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    You're right, but the more transparent the judging is, the more scrutiny it will receive, and the more likely any bad actors will be caught (and hopefully deterred).

    Right now, fans and media don't understand the scoring, or only vaguely, and even within the skating community different people have different views. In this way, when cheating does happen, how do you spot it? People don't know which numbers to look for, they don't have names to accuse, and everything gets swept under the rug. If someone is considering cheating, what's to stop them? Nothing.

    But with a simplified scoring system and accountable judging, when something is amiss, people can quickly find the bogus numbers, understand why they are bogus, and attach a name to it. Intense pressure can immediately come down on such a person, from fan outrage, to being shunned by people within their own federation, to media investigations, everything. If there is enough interest to uncover the truth, then at some point it is most likely to come out.

    And that's what happened with the end of 6.0 -- the sport was at or near its highest popularity, the scoring system was easy and rudimentary, and the judges were held accountable. Intense pressure came down on offending judges. Rather than clean up the sport, the ISU showed its hand by making everything more opaque. One can easily conclude that the ISU (and by proxy the federations) do not want a clean and fair sport. The ISU and its federations are filled with enough corrupt people at present who want to determine winners and losers according to bribes and trades and off-ice deals. The only way they can do this is through an opaque scoring system with anonymous judging, and it's turned people away from figure skating. You can see it in the disappearance of TV money and declining attendance and interest. People don't care about figure skating anymore because

    1) they don't understand how it's scored
    2) they think the competitions are rigged
    3) the scoring system gives incentive to sloppy performances that people don't enjoy watching
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
  30. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Which had nothing to do with the scoring system.

    Which meant it was easy to manipulate.

    BWAHAHA. Seriously? Then why is Yuri Balkov still a judge?