Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by calica, Apr 11, 2014.
Well said Peter!
I second that strongly. Thank you Peter, both for starting this petition and your spirited statement in support of it!
The ISU and the sport have reached a critical crossroads. Serious changes need to be made. As an individual, you can try and push for change, even in a very small way. Or you can sit around and complain and do nothing. Your choice.
And thank you, Peter, for providing the list of email addresses for the presidents of the federations. That is the sort of research and useful information that was sorely lacking in the other petition.
Most? Wow, what an insult to the vast majority of judges who give up their free time (for no pay) for the sport and do their best to judge impartially.
And what do you propose happens while all these new judges are being trained? Or are you just going to stick them on a judging panel and hope for the best?
I think the problem with the judges is that they simply can't be impartial with the way the judging system is setup. There are subject to too much politicking from different federations and too much pressure to score one way that it really hurts the sport and the objectivity of judging. Getting rid of them might help, but like others have suggested, they should become representatives of the ISU and not the representatives of various federations.
At championships all the judges do represent the ISU.
Unless all the judges are put in hermetically sealed boxes for the whole season or until the ISU invents robot judges, there is no way to prevent politicking. The only way to remove subjectivity from judging is to remove human beings altogether. And if that's not what you are suggesting, you and others are being completely unrealistic.
Which is really just stupid. If the ISU would admit they represent the countries they come from it would be a lot more transparent. Trying to pretend that a judge nominated by the Antartica-federation doesn't come in with pro-Antartic view points (even if they aren't going to downright cheat to favor their skaters) is just absurd.
An update: The petition to remove Cinquanta sponsored by Bill Fauver, Monica Friedlander, et al., now has over 10,000 signatures. Bill is doing his best to reach out to the professional coaching community for support and more signatures. https://www.change.org/petitions/ot...presidency-of-the-international-skating-union
Also, Peter Murray's petition against Cinquanta now has over 2,700 signatures: https://www.change.org/petitions/is...-skating-proposals-for-the-2014-isu-congress#.
Although it hasn't been without controversy, I'm happy to see these petitions getting continued support and discussion. Let's hope it's all getting noticed by those in authority.
Exactly. Most judges do the right thing. It is not fair to tar the majority based on a minority.
I posted Pat St. Peter's statement to USFS members in the other Cinquanta thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...ort-Programs&p=4247873&viewfull=1#post4247873
When a judge takes the exam and is appointed as a Championship Judge by the ISU, the Federation from which that judge came from no longer has control of that judge. The Federation cannot remove or discipline a Championship judge for any reason other than the judge becomes Ineligible.
I'm sure you mean that when that judge is nominated by their federation and chosen by the ISU to judge at a championship event (where they are introduced as representing the ISU), what they do at that event is subject to review/discipline from the ISU, not by their federation. That doesn't mean that they can't be "influenced" by their federation. Such judges are not limited to judging at ISU events and are still permitted to judge at events within their own country (and they usually do). Surely their conduct at non-championship events is out of the ISU control?
In a sense the entire skating community is responsible for letting it get to this extent. Why has the same man been allowed to stay in charge of the ISU year after year? One man in charge of the ISU for 20 years? The skating federations should have all worked to remove him years ago.
Have others stood against him? I don't know the history of this one. You can only have a change if there is an suitable alternative.
How can there not be an alternative to Cinquanta? The ISU has had 20 years to find someone else and there are plenty of talented skating officials who have run skating federations in Canada, USA, Europe, etc. We're not talking about the Presidency of the United States here. Is a man who is pushing 80 years old really their only option? Is there no other younger man (or woman!) capable of doing the job?
Politically, yes. Enough people with voting privileges continue to vote for him because they "like" what he does, despite how twisted that sounds.
I don't think the problem is that there aren't any people who would be capable of doing the job more competently than $peedy. I would guess that there have been people interested in taking on the job of president, but who decided not to run because it would be nearly impossible to counteract the amount of support $peedy would have from the speed skaters and from his ISU allies. Also, presenting yourself as an alternative to $peedy would involve criticizing his actions and his policies - so when you lost, as you inevitably would, you would likely be a very unpopular person in the ISU.
The World Skating Federation is a very instructive example of the vindictiveness that happens in the ISU when $peedy is criticized. The iSU lost a number of very experienced high-ranking officials in that mess, and they didn't have to. They could have approached the situation with an attitude of, "okay, what you did was maybe not the best choice of action, but obviously you are dissatisfied with how things are going. Let's work together and use your knowledge and your ideas to improve the ISU for everyone." Instead, their reaction was to clamp down on the "perpetrators", mobilize $peedy's allies to speak out against them - and to get the members of their federations to speak out against them - and ban them for life.
In an organizational culture like that, it's maybe no surprise that no one has dared to step up to run for president against $peedy.
*Sigh.* So true.
Here is an example of how extreme the ISU vindictiveness against the WSF was - the letter that Skate Canada sent to its members threatening to suspend anyone who even expressed support for the WSF.
This is part of the motion that the Skate Canada executive passed to condemn the WSF:
As a Skate Canada member, I was horrified at this heavy-handedness. So I wrote to the Skate Canada executive saying that I supported the WSF's attempts to improve the sport of skating, and saying I was appalled that Skate Canada would pass a motion restricting its members' freedom of expression and freedom of association, both of which are fundamental rights in the Canadian Charter of Rights. And if they wanted to suspend me, they could go right ahead. I'm still waiting for my letter of suspension
I love it! Great to see her spreading the word about something constructive and important she's working to help achieve.
Yeah great to see her treating her own petition as news and trying to promote that. Again a demonstration of her lack of journalist ethics and totally misleading.
There is a link in red at the bottom of the story to "report this content". I urge everyone else who is disgusted with Ms. Friedlander's hypocrisy and lack of ethics - for the second year in a row - to click the link and submit a report.
It would be "great" if she acknowledged in the story that she was a co-sponsor of the petition she is writing about. But she left that out, even after being criticized for doing exactly the same thing with the Denis Ten petition she sponsored last year. Between that and the mysterious changes to the text of the petition *after* people had signed it, it's clear that she has little or no understanding of ethical behaviour. All that she may be "achieving" is giving the ISU more and more reasons to ignore the petition.
Before today I had never read any of her articles (thanks for the link, btw, allezfred) and I was appalled that, indeed, she left out the fact that she was a co-sponsor of this petition. It's great that figure skating is a sport she feels passionately about and wants to bring attention to it, but how about some ethical standards? There should have been a disclaimer of some sort. And the fact that some of the text of the petition after people signed? Shady.
(Brief thread drift)
Then I went to look at some prior articles she'd written, and was informed that essentially "no one understands IJS in the skating fan community." (I'm paraphrasing) That's some really careless writing and it is only to the detriment of the sport if she's promoting the idea that skating fans have no idea what is going on in the judging. If skating fans don't get it, why would the general public ever want to try to watch?
I reported it too. ITA that what she does does more harm to the sport than help it.
Will do this later. Complete fail in journalism ethics to not mention that she herself is one of the petition sponsors.
I don't think she is a fan of the sport. I think she is someone who sees a controversy and jumps on a bandwagon, and then makes herself out to be hero and acts as if she is going to save it. If she was a fan she would have a greater understanding of the sport and be able to rationally explain things. But she can't.