Requesting the resignation of Ottavio Cinquanta

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by calica, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Active Member

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    Thanks for sharing this information and for all your hard work on this issue! It's reassuring to know the USFSA leadership is at least actually preparing for the June ISU Congress beforehand and attempting to coordinate with other federations in advance. I still would like a public statement about where they stand on the short program issue and what they intend to do about it. But at least this tells us they're doing something.

    TBH, things had reached the point that I feared the U.S. and other federation representatives might walk into the Congress in June with their brains on hold and rubber stamps in hand, ready to sign anything Cinquanta presented.
  2. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    But what is the USFSA organizing this forum *for*? Is it to prepare responses in opposition to $peedy's proposals, or is it to plan how to quell any dissent at the Congress?
  3. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    It's doing something, yes, but it's not constructive. I want to get rid of $peedy too, but the petition is badly written, its reasoning is unclear, and it blames him for things he has no control over. There are many, many specific things $peedy has done that more than justify calling for his resignation, but they are not clearly stated in this petition. And unfortunately those problems will give the ISU all the reasons it needs to ignore the petition when it's submitted.

    It's not "small stuff" to be unethical and dishonest, and she has now demonstrated that with her work around two different petitions. If $peedy gets turfed and the sport of skating changes, IMHO it will be in spite of anything she's done, not because of anything she's done.
  4. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I responded that way because the previous posts before you posted discuss that if someone posts a petition and AFTER people signs it, it is dishonest. And then your post said that you are not sure how it is dishonest. I would obviously assume that if you respond to posts on the forum, that you would read the previous posts, and therefore I could not see why changing petition after people signed it is not dishonest for you.
  5. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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  6. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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  7. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Is that really Dick or someone pretending to be him?...
  8. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    I feel like that petition is lacking something though. It just isn't forceful enough. Speedy has made other questionable decisions and said questionable things about this sport and those should also be included. This one isn't comprehensive enough.
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Button's verified Twitter account (@PushDicksButton) posted this message the other day:
  10. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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    As if those rediculous proposals aren't reasoned enough, stupid enough and dangerous enough for the future of the sport. I wasn't going to laden the petition with all his past idiodic deeds to try and satisfy every possible demand from possible signatories. This is not about the need to satisfy every potential signer, it is about those who do sign sending a message to their respective NGB's that skating fans are FED UP WITH OTTAVIO CINQUANTA. I started the petition with the goal to spread the unhappiness about Cinquanta to Skating Officialdom. I know full well Speedy doesn't give a shit about us. So sign if you want or don't sign for whatever damn reason/excuse/agenda you have. I could care less.

    With that out of the way, I will back up Sylvia's confirmation that Dick Button not only supports both petitions, he has signed Bill Feuvers sponsored petition calling for Speedy's resignation. So those here who doubt that can rest be assured his signature is indeed on that document.

    I am trying to stir up the skating community base in the U.S. from the Club level up to take this fight to the USFS Governing Council in a couple weeks and get the delegates to bring up the topic of the petitions and make the elected officials and Board of Directors to acknowledge our disgust with Skating's Leadership and even get them to recognize the need to deal with Cinquanta and these foolish proposals.

    Bill Fauver has posted with challenges to former and current Olympic and World Team figure skaters to get behind not just the petitions but a general effort to spread the word on the need for NGB's to deal with Speedy. Today he challenged the PSA and USFSA Board Members as well. Here is what he wrote:

    "Do they see the issues with Mr. Cinquanta? Are they bold enough to step out and sign the petition, and then do more to make create change? Clearly (20) years of Mr. Cinquanta's leadership has taken us far away from success and close to oblivion. I would think as a PSA or USFSA Board Member it is crucial to have a clear view of figure skating and the challenges facing our sport and to be able to articulate action rather than responding, "It can't be done that way, that is not how the ISU works, it is political". We are so far past the time for that "political response" that it is insulting to hear it. Be Bold Board Members, and then back it up with action."

    Finally, anyone with a brain knows that the latest disastrous proposals from the Speed Skater are born from the critically troubled financial state that faces the ISU. The past policies that members refused to block have contributed to the critical state of skating's financial condition and public affairs nightmare that has reduced the sport's popularity to near death. Though many helped bring the sport to it's knees, it has been Cinquanta's incompetence as a business leader, his corruptible and unaccountable lack of ethics in managing skating's international governing body and his use of threats, blackballing and intimidation that is inexcusable. These alone are reason enough for NGB delegates to the June ISU Congress to seek his resignation. I have no illusions this will happen, but at least I am not just sitting around on my ass complaining. I am trying to do my small part to make something, anything positive happen for the future of the sport I love so much. - Peter Murray
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
  11. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    :respec: :respec: :respec:
  12. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Active Member

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    Well said Peter! :respec:
  13. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Active Member

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    I second that strongly. Thank you Peter, both for starting this petition and your spirited statement in support of it!

    The ISU and the sport have reached a critical crossroads. Serious changes need to be made. As an individual, you can try and push for change, even in a very small way. Or you can sit around and complain and do nothing. Your choice.
  14. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    And thank you, Peter, for providing the list of email addresses for the presidents of the federations. That is the sort of research and useful information that was sorely lacking in the other petition.
  15. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    Most? Wow, what an insult to the vast majority of judges who give up their free time (for no pay) for the sport and do their best to judge impartially. :rolleyes:

    And what do you propose happens while all these new judges are being trained? Or are you just going to stick them on a judging panel and hope for the best?
  16. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    I think the problem with the judges is that they simply can't be impartial with the way the judging system is setup. There are subject to too much politicking from different federations and too much pressure to score one way that it really hurts the sport and the objectivity of judging. Getting rid of them might help, but like others have suggested, they should become representatives of the ISU and not the representatives of various federations.
  17. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    At championships all the judges do represent the ISU.

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2014/SEG001OF.HTM

    Unless all the judges are put in hermetically sealed boxes for the whole season or until the ISU invents robot judges, there is no way to prevent politicking. The only way to remove subjectivity from judging is to remove human beings altogether. And if that's not what you are suggesting, you and others are being completely unrealistic.
  18. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Which is really just stupid. If the ISU would admit they represent the countries they come from it would be a lot more transparent. Trying to pretend that a judge nominated by the Antartica-federation doesn't come in with pro-Antartic view points (even if they aren't going to downright cheat to favor their skaters) is just absurd.
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  19. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Active Member

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    An update: The petition to remove Cinquanta sponsored by Bill Fauver, Monica Friedlander, et al., now has over 10,000 signatures. Bill is doing his best to reach out to the professional coaching community for support and more signatures. https://www.change.org/petitions/ot...presidency-of-the-international-skating-union

    Also, Peter Murray's petition against Cinquanta now has over 2,700 signatures: https://www.change.org/petitions/is...-skating-proposals-for-the-2014-isu-congress#.

    Although it hasn't been without controversy, I'm happy to see these petitions getting continued support and discussion. Let's hope it's all getting noticed by those in authority.
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  20. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Most judges do the right thing. It is not fair to tar the majority based on a minority.
  21. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  22. Morry Stillwell

    Morry Stillwell Well-Known Member

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    \
    When a judge takes the exam and is appointed as a Championship Judge by the ISU, the Federation from which that judge came from no longer has control of that judge. The Federation cannot remove or discipline a Championship judge for any reason other than the judge becomes Ineligible.
  23. victorskid

    victorskid Skating supporter

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    I'm sure you mean that when that judge is nominated by their federation and chosen by the ISU to judge at a championship event (where they are introduced as representing the ISU), what they do at that event is subject to review/discipline from the ISU, not by their federation. That doesn't mean that they can't be "influenced" by their federation. Such judges are not limited to judging at ISU events and are still permitted to judge at events within their own country (and they usually do). Surely their conduct at non-championship events is out of the ISU control?
  24. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    In a sense the entire skating community is responsible for letting it get to this extent. Why has the same man been allowed to stay in charge of the ISU year after year? One man in charge of the ISU for 20 years? The skating federations should have all worked to remove him years ago.
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  25. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Have others stood against him? I don't know the history of this one. You can only have a change if there is an suitable alternative.
  26. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    How can there not be an alternative to Cinquanta? The ISU has had 20 years to find someone else and there are plenty of talented skating officials who have run skating federations in Canada, USA, Europe, etc. We're not talking about the Presidency of the United States here. Is a man who is pushing 80 years old really their only option? Is there no other younger man (or woman!) capable of doing the job?
  27. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Politically, yes. Enough people with voting privileges continue to vote for him because they "like" what he does, despite how twisted that sounds.
  28. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the problem is that there aren't any people who would be capable of doing the job more competently than $peedy. I would guess that there have been people interested in taking on the job of president, but who decided not to run because it would be nearly impossible to counteract the amount of support $peedy would have from the speed skaters and from his ISU allies. Also, presenting yourself as an alternative to $peedy would involve criticizing his actions and his policies - so when you lost, as you inevitably would, you would likely be a very unpopular person in the ISU.

    The World Skating Federation is a very instructive example of the vindictiveness that happens in the ISU when $peedy is criticized. The iSU lost a number of very experienced high-ranking officials in that mess, and they didn't have to. They could have approached the situation with an attitude of, "okay, what you did was maybe not the best choice of action, but obviously you are dissatisfied with how things are going. Let's work together and use your knowledge and your ideas to improve the ISU for everyone." Instead, their reaction was to clamp down on the "perpetrators", mobilize $peedy's allies to speak out against them - and to get the members of their federations to speak out against them - and ban them for life.

    In an organizational culture like that, it's maybe no surprise that no one has dared to step up to run for president against $peedy.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
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  29. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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    *Sigh.* So true. :(
  30. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Here is an example of how extreme the ISU vindictiveness against the WSF was - the letter that Skate Canada sent to its members threatening to suspend anyone who even expressed support for the WSF.

    http://www.frogsonice.com/skateweb/articles/skate-canada-bashes-wsf.shtml

    This is part of the motion that the Skate Canada executive passed to condemn the WSF:

    As a Skate Canada member, I was horrified at this heavy-handedness. So I wrote to the Skate Canada executive saying that I supported the WSF's attempts to improve the sport of skating, and saying I was appalled that Skate Canada would pass a motion restricting its members' freedom of expression and freedom of association, both of which are fundamental rights in the Canadian Charter of Rights. And if they wanted to suspend me, they could go right ahead. I'm still waiting for my letter of suspension :shuffle:
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
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  31. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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  32. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Active Member

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    I love it! Great to see her spreading the word about something constructive and important she's working to help achieve.
  33. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah great to see her treating her own petition as news and trying to promote that. Again a demonstration of her lack of journalist ethics and totally misleading.
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  34. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    There is a link in red at the bottom of the story to "report this content". I urge everyone else who is disgusted with Ms. Friedlander's hypocrisy and lack of ethics - for the second year in a row - to click the link and submit a report.
  35. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies ├╝ber

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    Done!
  36. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    It would be "great" if she acknowledged in the story that she was a co-sponsor of the petition she is writing about. But she left that out, even after being criticized for doing exactly the same thing with the Denis Ten petition she sponsored last year. Between that and the mysterious changes to the text of the petition *after* people had signed it, it's clear that she has little or no understanding of ethical behaviour. All that she may be "achieving" is giving the ISU more and more reasons to ignore the petition.
  37. lmarie086

    lmarie086 Well-Known Member

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    Before today I had never read any of her articles (thanks for the link, btw, allezfred) and I was appalled that, indeed, she left out the fact that she was a co-sponsor of this petition. It's great that figure skating is a sport she feels passionately about and wants to bring attention to it, but how about some ethical standards? There should have been a disclaimer of some sort. And the fact that some of the text of the petition after people signed? Shady.

    (Brief thread drift)

    Then I went to look at some prior articles she'd written, and was informed that essentially "no one understands IJS in the skating fan community." (I'm paraphrasing) That's some really careless writing and it is only to the detriment of the sport if she's promoting the idea that skating fans have no idea what is going on in the judging. If skating fans don't get it, why would the general public ever want to try to watch?
  38. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I reported it too. ITA that what she does does more harm to the sport than help it.
  39. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    Will do this later. Complete fail in journalism ethics to not mention that she herself is one of the petition sponsors.
  40. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I don't think she is a fan of the sport. I think she is someone who sees a controversy and jumps on a bandwagon, and then makes herself out to be hero and acts as if she is going to save it. If she was a fan she would have a greater understanding of the sport and be able to rationally explain things. But she can't.