Rank the World Championship-winning Ladies LPs 1990 - 1999

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by olympic, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I'm amazed at how immediately the judges fell in love with Oksana Baiul beginning in '93.

    She had no real world or Olympic track record, and it wasn't as if she was so superior to all the other top ladies that merited her being placed at 'the top of the heap' in her first year. Perhaps her rise was fueled by a combination of her sad life story [orphan, sleeping at the rink, etc.], the judges obvious dislike for her top Euro rival Surya Bonaly, and Nancy Kerrigan's implosion. Then, by '94 the dye was cast.

    But it's also just weird that the judges were not considering other ladies besides Nancy and Surya, who had been around longer than Oksana, and who had better skating than her on a good day -Chen Lu, Yuka Sato, even Josee Chouinard. I also don't consider the Ukraine to have a really strong Fed to push her [then again, I forgot they had Viktor Petrenko]
  2. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Just top three:

    1. Butirskaya 1999
    2. Chen 1995
    3. Kwan 1996 (in my opinion Chen should have won though)
  3. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    With the not very talented Elena Liashenko bronze medalist at 1995 Euros, Romanova and Yaroshenko bronze medalist at 1996 Euros.
    For sure, ukranian fed had some influence at that time !
  4. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I began to backtrack on that statement in my initial post. It's also quite possible that in the early 90s there was some Soviet Fed. residual effect on the Ukraine, I suppose.
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it was kind of strange. I think she had this charisma about her that just made everyone fall for her though. I also think the judges were fed up with Kerrigan's inconsistency in big events after the 93 Worlds and tired of waiting yet another year to see if she would get her act together to win a major title. Bonaly well like you said.

    As for the others Chen did everything around that time to merit reaching the top in the weak womens field other than being from China I think. The idea of a Chinese skater on top was just a foreign concept at the time and her federation didnt understand anything about politiking back then. Sato didnt even get her triple lutz and triple flip both until 1994, and she had been very inconsistent in most of her performances leading to the 94 Games and then bombed the short program there to end her hopes. Chouinard had been even more inconsistent than Kerrigan leading up to 94, so now at 24 and without a World medal and history of crash and burn performances she was mostly seen as more of an emerging journeywomen than a real contender.
  6. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I think the 93 Worlds should have gone to either Bonaly or Chen. Both far outskated Baiul in the LP portion. Maybe Surya since she had a better short program than Lu.

    The 94 Worlds definitely should have gone to Sato. It shoudnt have even been a 5-4 split IMO. Bonaly was actually overmarked here I feel after 2 mistakes and an overall flat performance. Yeah I agree if she had been the 93 World Champion she would have been "given" the 94 World title for the same performance but it wouldnt have been right.
  7. lilshorty

    lilshorty New Member

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    Word. If I could replace Bonaly's 93 Worlds LP with Baiul's my list would be:

    1996 Michelle Kwan
    1993 Surya Bonaly
    1992 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1997 Tara Lipinski
    1991 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1988 Michelle Kwan
    1995 Lu Chen
    1999 Maria Butyrskya
    1994 Yuka Sato
    1990 Jill Trenary
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2010
  8. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    Here are mine, of the ones I have seen so far:

    1996--Kwan
    1992-Yamaguchi
    1995-Lu Chen
    1991-Yamaguchi
  9. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    In retrospect, I would drop Sato's '94 performance to 7th just ahead of Kwan '98. I hadn't seen that performance in some time and was going by memories of the moment. Some of her landings were choppy and she doubled a 3toe
  10. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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  11. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I would have except for Kwan 96, Chen 96, and Ito 90 (since we are bringing in other non gold performances). Still it was a stunning program and skate. If she had done the 2nd triple lutz I would have rated it over 1996 easily since I think her presentation had improved more since 96, and her overall skating, plus she did the triple-triple this time (though a bit shaky on the 2nd jump). However her flawless program under immense pressure in 96 has to outrank probably.
  12. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Except for her Olympic short program skate, I don't think Baiul was even 5.8-worthy on the second mark, ever. She had the good fortune of being compared to Bonaly on the second mark though.

    Just like Lipinski had the good fortune of being compared to, well, Bonaly, back to back in Nagano, making her second mark shoot from 5.7 to 5.9 overnight.

    Back in 1993 and even in 1994, Sato didn't really have the big jumps and Chen came from a Federation with absolutely no backing. Kerrigan and Harding could be great but they were often hot and cold.

    I think the judges were just very concerned about crowning Bonaly as Olympic champion that they needed to make a star within a relatively short period of time and Baiul was probably the best candidate all things considered.
  13. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    I did a little follow up research from Jill's 3 selections, and they were, specifically:

    Sandstorm by La Bionda (1978)

    The Mermaid by Yanni (1987)

    Chicos y Chicas by Mavis Vegas Davis from the "Salsa" Soundtrack (1988)
  14. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Off topic, but this music was better with Lilia Podkopayeva in 1995. Her FX routine was amazing !
  15. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

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    1. Kwan 1996
    2. Butyrskaya 1999
    3. Sato 1994
    4. Baiul 1993
    5. Yamaguchi 1992
    6. Yamaguchi 1991
    7. Chen 1995
    8. Kwan 1998
    9. Lipinski 1997
    10. Trenary 1990
  16. Blair

    Blair New Member

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    I couldn't agree with you more! I had never realized how much better a program Kwan had in 97 compared to Salome in 96. Really brilliant choreography full of transitions. I would even guess that choreography could hold up pretty easily under IJS standards.
  17. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

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    You know, the name of this thread title is "Rank the World Championship winning Ladies LPs 1990 - 1999" and Kwan actually did beat Lipinski in the LP at the 1997 Worlds, but due to a 4th place in the SP, she didn't win the gold medal overall. With that said, if I included MK's '97 Worlds LP in my rankings, it would be 3rd in my list behind Kwan 1996 and Butyrskaya 1999.
  18. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Did that #4 pick as Baiul really just happen, especially over all the performances from 5-9? :eek:
  19. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

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    It sure did, and I'm not even a Baiul fan, but her LP at the 1993 Worlds stands for me as her best program ever! It surely beats Lipinski's tiny jumps and immature presentation from 1997, Chen's typically cheated jumps (I absolutely hated her Lutz and flip technique), Yamaguchi's flawed '92 LP to the overplayed Malaguena (plus, I've always believed Kristi truly blossomed as a pro skater; I'm not a big fan of her eligible skating), and Trenary's program is too outdated and lacking in difficulty, IMO. As for Kwan, I really do love her and her Lyra Angelica LP, but her '98 Worlds LP skate of it was one of her worst that season . . . only the '97 Skate Canada LP performance was worse. Still, with Slutskaya and Butyrskaya absolutely tanking in the '98 Worlds SP, Kwan was able to easily win her 2nd World title.
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I agree Baiul's best ever performance was the 93 Worlds LP which kind of sucks for her to be honest. :lol:
  21. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    What is not to love about the 1993 Worlds version of Oksana's one and only LP? It is pure solo jumps, spins, and butt shack dancing with none of those distracting jump combinations, sophisticated field moves (ie spread eagles, etc.), or footwork that involves more that just picking up ones feet, etc.

    (If you do not get it, I was being sarcastic. Oksana winning World and Olympic Championships without these elements lessened the standards of program constructions. The disappearance of moves in the field in favor of speed between 1993-2005 and the advent of the new term "transitions" would have never happened.)
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2010
  22. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

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    Yes, her program construction would have been totally crushed in a COP competition. Still, this is the world of 6.0 we are talking about here, a world where multiple cheated jumps by Sarah Hughes and Chen Lu can place in the top 3 in Olympic and World competition. For the record, I don't believe Baiul should have won the Olympic title either.
  23. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    The 6.0 era was not so terrible. If Oksana was labeled a "Jumping Bean with rhythm" and given 5.0-5.4 in both technical and presentation marks the way Bonaly was labeled "Merely a Gymnast on Ice" then Oksana would have won herself some medals at Euros and been top 10 at Worlds, but she would not have been a model for program construction that was, for the most part, indescribable using the language of skating between the jumps and spins . . . "then Oksana does a series of rhythmic step kicks by picking up her flats from the ice and stepping forward in rhythm with the music while her arms are doing the Hustle."
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2010
  24. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Well, good point, but then again, Oksana only seems to look better than the rest of these girls (minus Trenary) because she had a much easier program than everyone else and did these elements near flawlessly. Who knows what would have happened if she did a second triple lutz and a couple of combos in addition to some varied spins and footwork.

    Kristi only fell on a salchow at 92 worlds and Lu Chen's under-rotated jumps didn't come until 1997-1998 really, and they were not a problem at all at 95 worlds... Although I would have to agree about her lutz technique, but at least it was high and gorgeous when she could do them!
  25. Diyoris

    Diyoris New Member

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    1996 Kwan
    1995 Chen
    1997 Lipinski
    1992 Yamaguchi
    1991 Yamaguchi
    1999 Butyrskaya
    1994 Sato
    1993 Baiul
    1998 Kwan
    1990 Trenary
  26. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    I just rewatched some of these, and these were some good performances. Having said that, I guess I'd rank them as:

    1996 Michelle Kwan
    1999 Maria Butyrskaya
    1997 Tara Lipinski
    1995 Lu Chen
    1992 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1991 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1994 Yuka Sato
    1998 Michelle Kwan
    1990 Jill Trenary
    1993 Oksana Baiul

    I was tempted to give Maria the #1 nod, but I think Kwan's '96 program was a bit better constructed. However, Maria had such a wonderfully mature look on the ice, and she was so good in '99 -- very satisfying, feel-good win. Tara's technical merit was so strong, and really, so was Kristi's - I'm amazed she was able to regroup and give such a good performance in 1992 right after winning OGM, including that 3-3! Major props to her.
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010
  27. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    1993 Oksana Baiul
    1994 Yuka Sato
    1990 Jill Trenary
    1991 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1996 Michelle Kwan
    1999 Maria Butyrskaya
    1992 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1997 Tara Lipinski
    1995 Chen Lu
    1998 Michelle Kwan

    Based on the total drama of the competition, on and off the ice :2faced:
  28. BmcC102

    BmcC102 Active Member

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    Favorites, in order:
    1996 Michelle Kwan
    1997 Tara Lipinski
    1999 Maria Butyrskaya
    1990 Jill Trenary

    Middle of the road:
    1991 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1995 Lu Chen
    1992 Kristi Yamaguchi
    1994 Yuka Sato

    Really don't get it:
    1993 Oksana Baiul
  29. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Really ? :eek:
    I liked Jill Trenary, but her LP in 1990 was not in the same league as the other 3 you mentioned, IMO ! Could you explain ? ;)
  30. BmcC102

    BmcC102 Active Member

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    Haha. I have always loved Jill's skating. I love her toeloop, salchow, and axel techniques and just overall style. :)
  31. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    YOU WOULD ;):p
  32. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    That could be an entire thread all on its own.....:watch:
  33. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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    What happened to 1998?
  34. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I finally figured the order out. I chose based on content and personal enjoyment after watching these routines.

    1) 1996 - Michelle Kwan "Salome"
    2) 1999 - Maria Butyrskaya "Otonal"
    3) 1995 - Lu Chen "The Last Emperor
    4) 1994 - Yuka Sato "Don Quixote" and other pieces
    5) 1997 - Tara Lipinski "Sense and Sensibility" & "Much Ado About Nothing"
    6) 1991 - Kristi Yamaguchi "Samson and Delilah"
    7) 1992 - Kristi Yamaguchi "Malaguena'
    8) 1998 - Michelle Kwan "Lyra Angelica"
    9) 1990 - Jill Trenary Medley of stuff
    10) 1993 - Oksana Baiul Mish-mash of Broadway showtunes that had nothing to do with one another.

    If I was to include Lu Chen's 1996 and Michelle Kwan's 1997 routines then Lu Chen would be tied with Kwan at number 1 and 1997 would be at number 2 (if she had hit that last Lutz, it'd be number 1 for sure).
  35. TID

    TID New Member

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    1. Butyrskaya 1999
    2. Chen 1995
    3. Lipinski 1997
    4. Kwan 1996
    5. Yamaguchi 1992
    6. Yamaguchi 1991
    7. Baiul 1993
    8. Kwan 1998
    9. Trenary 1990
    10. Sato 1994
  36. BmcC102

    BmcC102 Active Member

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    Thank you. :D ;)

    FYI, DarrellH, I'd put Kwan's 98 Worlds LP in between 95 Chen and 92 Yamaguchi... sorry I forgot the first time, but frankly, I didn't think anyone would care.

    You sure know how to make a guy feel good. :cool:
  37. caro-ira

    caro-ira New Member

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    1992 - Kristi Yamaguchi
    1999 - Maria Butyrskaya
    1993 - Oksana Baiul
    1990 - Jill Trenary
    1996 - Michelle Kwan
    1998 - Michelle Kwan
    1991 - Kristi Yamaguchi
    1995 - Lu Chen
    1994 - Yuka Sato
    1997 - Tara Lipinski
  38. miki88

    miki88 New Member

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    Because Baiul had more charisma than any of these ladies. I was watching her performances the other day and I agree with commentators who said she just grabs your attention whenever she's on the ice. Her incredible presence helped hide her weaknesses. She was also very fortunate to come onto the scene during a time where there wasn't a consistent female skater who was both artistically and technically excellent.
  39. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    To me she was always the girl who stuck out her butt while doing crossovers and couldn't do any footwork to save her life.
  40. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Chouinard and Sato never really gave the judges any chance to reward her other than the 93 and 94 Worlds SP for Chouinard, the Olympic LP for Sato and the 94 Worlds for Sato. Chouinard bombed the LP at every major meet from 92 onwards. Sato didnt have all the triples yet in 92 or 93, then blew the SP at the Olympics in Lillehammer.