Rank the World Championship-winning ladies FPs from 2000-2009

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by shady82, Mar 1, 2010.

  1. cheriepopo

    cheriepopo New Member

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    1. Kwan 2003 Aranjuez
    2. Kwan 2001 SOBS
    Tied 3. Arakawa 2004 Turandot & Slutzkaya 2005 Wonderland
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    .
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    8.Kim 2009
    Tied 9. Ando 2007 & Meissner 2006
  2. lexeoe

    lexeoe New Member

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    i also like the intensity and the fact that she was first to skate in the final group. it added drama.
  3. lexeoe

    lexeoe New Member

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    me too. and those boos from the crowd as her score was revealed was really justified. a 7 triple, cleanly executed program was not worth a 5.6. had she not won i wonder how the french would react?
  4. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    And in the SP, she had even lower scores.
    The fact that she skated before Maria and Irina in the LP may explain her low marks.
    But I agree with you, Michelle killed the competition before the others skated and deserved better than 5.6 or 5.7 :)
  5. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    Here are mine:

    1. Kwan 2001--A perfect program, with 7 triples including a 3-3. I loved the way the program built to a dramatic ending. Kwan was the best at that.

    2. Kwan 2000--Another perfect, 7 triple program in a come-from-behind win. This is a close second to 2001, based only on my own, purely subjective opinion.

    3. Kwan 2003--Not the most technically difficult ("only" 6 triples), but the full Kwan magic was on display. Passion, command of the ice, and technical perfection lift this program above others who did a 3-3.

    4. Arakawa-2004--The most technically difficult of any World's FP that I can recall, combined with the beauty of Shizuka's skating. I love her Ina Bauer.

    5. Yu Na 2009. Only 5 triples, but the best 3-3 of any lady in the history of the sport and technical perfection on the jumps she did complete. And her presence on the ice is captivating.

    6. Irina-2005. I rank her above Mao because of the technical content and lack of mistakes.

    7. Mao-2008. A brave performance. After a frightening fall, she came back with two 3-3's. Despite the mistake, I much prefer this to Mao's winning skate in 2010

    8. Kimmie 2006--This was Kimmie's best performance ever. Maybe her 3-3s wouldn't be credited by today's super-picky standards, but she did what she had to do in that year and deserved to win.

    9. Irina-2002. A consolation prize. Michelle should have won the long program, but I don't think it would have made a difference in the final placements.

    10. Miki 2007--Because I can't remember this at all!
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  6. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    I´ll only rank those three that are best, IMO:

    1. Shizuka Arakawa 2004 (she was sooo amazing technically and artistically)
    2. Yuna Kim 2009 (her artistry is the best ever and even with one fault she was great technically, too)
    2. Irina Slutskaya 2005 (a programme that suited Slutskaya really well)
  7. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I think the judges were planning to place Kwan 3rd that year even after her skate, and would have if Maria and Irina had skated cleanly, or 2nd had just one of them skated better than they did. Not saying I agree with that, just that is what their expectation was I believe. That said apart from the two 5.6s for technical which I agree were a joke her scores were an even mix of 5.7s and 5.8s for technical and 5.8s and 5.9s for presentation which were reasonable considering she was going 1st with the other 2 gold contenders left to come. I would agree the performance was good enough for 5.8s and 5.9s technical and 5.9s and 6.0s for artistic if she skated later of course.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  8. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    great skate but I agree. I mean I understand being influenced, but despite what I've heard ppl say about it just being the dress, the spiral placement and the end pose being similar, I disagree. I notice quite a lot of nuances that were also similar. I mean yu-na's version does have a few cool unique choreographic elements of its own but even in the quieter interlude in the middle of the music she does the exact same "raising hands to the air together and fluttering along with her back" movement michelle does. actually yu-na's program is more choreographically complete than michelle's, since michelle started to have empty programs after 01, but I can't give yu-na that much credit when so much of it was "inspired" by michelle's program

    for my ranking I'm putting presentation/artistry ahead of technical elements, as although the latter are important as well the rules changed dramatically following 2005..so

    1. song of the black swan - kwan
    2. the red violin - kwan
    3. turandot - arakawa
    4. concierto de aranjuez - kwan
    5. scheherazade - kim
    6. queen of spades - slutskaya
    7. fantasie impromptu - asada
    8. tosca - slutskaya
    9. mendelssohn - ando
    10. queen of sheba - meissner
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  9. Diyoris

    Diyoris New Member

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    2000 Kwan
    2009 Kim
    2008 Asada
    2004 Arakawa
    2001 Kwan
    2005 Slutskaya
    2007 Ando
    2003 Kwan
    2006 Meissner
    2002 Slutskaya
  10. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I am surprised Slut's 2005 worlds lp isn't a top pick for many. To me it's one of the top three along with Kwan's 2000 performance (Sluts/Kwan top two in any order). Kwan's 01 performance is good but unlike the 00 LP, it's not a breakthrough, choreographically or technically for her. She did that the year before (landing 7 jumps with a 3/3).

    Arakawa's program isn't bad. To me she's top 4 because that was the best performance she has done technically.

    To me, Meissner, Ando and Asada should be somewhere below mid-point as Meissner's style wasn't mature in 2006 and Ando and Asada didn't even win their free skate.

    The rest of the programs aren't exactly "performance-of-your-life" so they're somewhere in the middle. However, I prefer some of them choreographically. For instance, choreographically, I really like Kim's Scheherazade but I don't consider her performance at worlds performance of her life, though very solid.
  11. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    2003 Kwan - the joy and the big jumps
    2000 Kwan - the speed and the 3/3, lesser choreography and use of music than at Skate America
    2001 Kwan - the beauty of the program (but also the cheated triples)
    2004 Arakawa - lovely program but again with the cheated 3/3s and lack of expression
    2009 Kim - fast and exciting performance; beautiful choreography and really using the music, silly 3sal mistake
    2002 Slutskaya - big clean jumps and very 'complete' program - but lacks anything deep
    2005 Slutskaya - emotional skate but also very sloppy
    2008 Asada - very distracting opening fall
    2007 Ando - nothing stands out
    2006 Meissner - cheated jumps and mechanical expressions
  12. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    I didn't see any cheated triples in 2001. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFp7RVrihvk
    Perhaps not 100% secure on the landings of the sal and second lutz, but those are nits.
  13. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Come on. The flip and second lutz were both cheated by about a quarter turn. The second 3toe in the 3/3 was also slightly cheated but within the acceptable range. Her jumps in 2001 were all around not as strong as her 2000 jumps or her jumps in 2003-4.
  14. Spinner

    Spinner Where's my book?

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    And that reaction was well-earned by Kimmie. I was there to enjoy it and we were all on our feet before she even finished. She threw down the program of the night when the rest of the field :coughSashaSplatcough: wasn't doing so well.
  15. lilia&mofan

    lilia&mofan New Member

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    Now that the 2009-2010 Olympic season is over, I was wondering how people would rank the 3 winning Olympic lps (Sarah's lp, Shizuka's lp, and Yu Na 's lp) with the 10 World lps?
  16. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    I rank them as follows:

    1. Kwan 2000 -- Difficult music, difficult situation, and the result was magic!

    2. Slutskaya 2005 -- I love a good comeback, and this was one for the ages!

    3. Kwan 2001 -- Wonderful.

    4. Kwan 2003 -- Such joy!

    5. Arakawa 2004 -- Beautiful -- in all ways.

    6. Kim 2009.

    7. Meissner 2006

    8. Ando 2007 -- I was so happy for her

    9. Asada 2008 -- gutsy, but mistakes

    10 Slutskaya 2002
  17. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    I'm too lazy to formally re-rank :lol: but I'd have Yu-Na pretty close to the top, quite possibly #1. I just thought she was phenomenal, especially under that intense national pressure. Just... WOW.

    I hate to say it because I adore her skating, but Shizuka would probably be in the mid-to-lower half for me. It was a good but not phenomenal skate, controlled but cautious, no 3/3s, popped jump and seemingly did the same damn spin four times. For me, her Worlds FS was so much better.

    Not sure about Sarah, but I'd probably have her just behind Shizuka. Props for attempting two 3/3 and the nice layback, but points deducted for the hideous flutz, somewhat frontloaded jumps IIRC, and some choreo that Robin Wagner stole from MK. She did skate with joy and it was fun to watch, so good for her.
  18. Dilng

    Dilng Well-Known Member

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    1. 2001 I absolutely loved this program and Michelle skated it perfectly!
    1. 2005 Irina skated this so well and considering her illness amazing. I really enjoyed this program so much. These two programs tied!

    2. 2004 This was a very impressive skate I really enjoyed the entire program.

    3. 2002 A very clean program and very well done.

    4. 2003 Loved the music not much content artistically, but she did skate with joy.

    5. 2000 This wasn't one of my favorite programs, but she did skate it very well.
    6. 2008 I'm not a big fan, but this program was good except for the fall.

    7. 2009 This program wasn't that good at all.

    8. 2007 I don't like Miki's skating, but I was happy for her when she won.

    9. 2006 Kimmie is just boring boring boring!!
  19. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    Yuna would probably be top two, Shiz would be in the middle, and Sarah would be at the bottom with Kimmie.
  20. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    It depends on whether you credit Sarah's jumps. She flutzed and under-rotated at least one of her 3-3's. But Yu Na is the best of the three, IMO. Can there be any argument? A perfect program with a difficult 3-3, 6 triples, all well-executed, good artistry.
  21. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Competitively speaking it is true Kim from Vancouver would destroy any other World or Olympic winning performance this decade, especialy under COP. I am not sure if that all people are judging on though.
  22. FSfanatic

    FSfanatic New Member

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    Nor did Asada win the LP this year en route to her 2nd title.

    Including Asada's 2010 win, I'd have it:

    1-Kwan 2001
    2-Asada 2010
    3-Arakawa 2004
    3-Kwan 2000
    4-Slutskaya 2005
    5-Kwan 2003
    6-Kim 2009
    7-Asada 2008
    8-Ando 2007
    9-Messnier 2006
    10-Slutskaya 2002
  23. stillalive

    stillalive New Member

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    But I recall that she had had a problem with her skates just before taking the ice for the long program, so it wasn't really a question of technique quality.
  24. falling_dance

    falling_dance The Scarlet Unlettered

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    I think that happened before the qualifying round skate.
  25. stillalive

    stillalive New Member

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    ops my bad then ;)
  26. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Johnny Come Lately [me]. I found this hard to rank because my top 4 are verrryyy close to one another. I did add the Olympic performances and '10 Worlds

    - Kim '10 [Vancouver] - just perfect. Basics make up for lack of a 3loop
    1. Arakawa '04 - beauty, power and fluidity (even if she ur'd the 3t of the opening 3-3-2, that was a pioneering move!)
    - Asada '10 [Torino] - 2 3x's and otherwise great execution, but to music not quite suited to her. She did finally make it work.
    2. Kwan '01 - Kwan clean and at her best IMO, but slightly less ambitious than Arakawa.
    3. Slutskaya '05 - most powerful of them all, but 3peated the 3loop, didn't she? Also, choreography was a little less than Kwan or Arakawa [feeding the chickens].
    4. Kwan '00 - nice and strong but a little emptier than other programs by Kwan.
    5. Asada '08 - didn't achieve take-off on the opening 3x but otherwise great.
    6. Kim '09 - lack of edge jumps puts her lower IMO than where she could've been on my list, even if her basics otherwise were phenomenal.
    7. Ando '07 - OK. She deserves credit for the great jumps but I found the choreography a little clunky and forced to overused music, her sit spin was not that great, and her spiral was too strained.
    - Arakawa '06 [Torino] - nice, but a little too safe.
    8. Kwan '03 - I'm in the minority, but this LP never did much for me. She was obviously beginning to dial it back at this stage in the career.
    9. Meissner '06 - Good for her and the execution of some major triples, but the technique and the non-jump elements were just a little subpar.
    - Hughes '02 [SLC] - In retrospect, not that great even if inspired.
    10. Slutskaya '02 - I thought this performance was just safe and otherwise unmemorable, dialed back from other attempts.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  27. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I dont think hardly anyone would rank Kwan's 2003 Worlds title performance high on this list if Worlds werent in the U.S and the emotion created by the crowd and the moment made it seem like something far more extraordinary then it was. I am baffled how ANYONE thinks it is even close to her 2000 and 2001 World winning LPs, let alone better. Kwan's 2000 and 2001 winning LPs both had 7 triples, some huge jumps, a triple-triple, all out attack and speed, and so far better and more complex choreography than her 2003 program. Her 2003 program had far less jumps wise, far less choreography wise, less difficult non jump elements, less speed and convicition, and was somehow the best of the 3? She was clearly injured by that point and had to scale back her jumps, non jump elements, and choreography the remainder of her career. I just dont get it. And in 2000 and 2001 she actually had a real task ahead of her to win the title, she had Slutskaya favored over her in 2001, and Butyrskaya and Slutskaya to both pass in 2000, and she had to skate lights out to even have a shot of winning and helped to inspire such phenomenal skates those nights. The 2003 situation was nothing like that, she basically had to stay upright to ensure winning, it was basically a home country Kwan lovefest, and with Slutskaya having a bad year and out of Worlds and Cohen dropping back out of gold contention from even the Q round there was no real threat to her.

    Dont get me wrong, her 2003 World winning LP was still great and she fully deserved to win that year, but I actually think it is one of the weaker ones of this list, and doesnt even come close to her own 2000 and 2001 winning LP's, Slutskaya's 2005 or Arakawa's 2004 winning LPs, Kim's 2009 and Asada's 2010 winning or gold winning LP's at Worlds and Olympics.
  28. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    ... No offense to anybody (or Kwan), but I never understood the Kwan hype. She had some great short programs that I really liked (Rachmaninoff, East of Eden), but to me, most of her long programs were just okay and sometimes bleh (since her programs got worse post 2002). To me, it always looked like she was skating back and forth across the rink, and there was nothing that really stood out in her skating like a Midori Ito or a Natalie Krieg...

    But that's just my opinion...
    sbmeagain and (deleted member) like this.
  29. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Kwan's 2000 lp was a technical display. Good speed, strong jumps, slowish spins but great footwork. By Worlds the program was basically stripped of any major transitions (used to have steps before 3sal, 3flip and final 3lutz) but still had some great choreography and expression.

    Kwan's 2001 lp was the most beautiful and complex but again some triples were flawed. She still had good speed but was probably the slowest out of 2000, 2001 and 2003, some strong jumps, complex and beautiful spins, but had the simplest footwork in all of Kwan's programs.

    Kwan's 2003 lp was the simplest technically but all triples were perfect. She carried the most flow across the program and didn't rest at all. Spins were simple but fast. The program was as simple as TRV in Nice but she made use of the music and choreography really well. She possibly had the most sincere expression in this skate since 1998.
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  30. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I dont think Kwan's 2003 Worlds winning LP would have even won the 2000 or 2001 Worlds. With her 2003 Worlds winning LP in 2000 she would have been placed 2nd to Slutskaya in the LP which would have placed her 3rd overall behind Slutskaya and Butyrskaya (the short program winner), whereas in 2001 she would have won the silver behind Slutskaya. Granted I know this isnt just about how they stack up competitively (atleast I dont think it is) but Kwan's 2003 World winning performance wouldnt have even been enough to win in years like 2000 and 2001.
  31. IceJunkie

    IceJunkie Well-Known Member

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    Kwan's post-2001 LPs were underwhelming. Not a whole lot on choreography, but this has been rehashed so many times its unbelievable. She was injured, she wasn't able to move as well, etc, etc. We all know this. I was never a huge Aranjuez fan. But she did lay it down and skated brilliantly at 2003 Worlds. Along with Tosca at the 04' Nats, it wasn't the program so much as the passion and energy she had during her SLF and the fact she landed her jumps that made it so great. Boring choreo though.

    I love Kwan, but I give credit where credit is due. Kim's LP in Vancouver was hands down, the best LP ever given by a woman at the Olympics or Worlds this decade.
  32. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I prefer Kwan's 2000 Worlds lp the most from a competitive standpoint but enjoyed her 2001 and 2003 Worlds lp much more.

    I think with her 2003 Worlds lp she could probably beat Slutskaya's lackluster Carmen in 2000 Worlds but might not be able to beat Slutskaya's sloppy DQ at 2001 Worlds simply because it looked like Slutskaya's program was too much more difficult. The slight cheat on her 3toe3toe was overlooked because it was 6.0 and because Slutskaya/s 3/3s were even more cheated.
  33. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    At the 2000 Worlds even with the program she actually skated the judges gave Irina higher technical marks and she won only on a split decision, and won most of the judges she got on tiebreaks. So no I dont think with 6 triples and no triple-triple the same panel would have placed her over Irina. Of course Worlds were in Europe and most of the panel that year were from Europe.
  34. lexeoe

    lexeoe New Member

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    add to the fact that she went first in the skate order hence the lower mark. she probably would've gotten 5.8's for technical merit had she skated let's say 3rd or 4th.
  35. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    And reasonable minds can differ! I put Kwan's 2001 World's LP and maybe her 2000 World's LP above Kim's Olympic program, not factoring in for the pressure of the Olympics. Michelle did 7 triples and all of the different types of triples. Her command of the ice in 2001 is as good as it gets. But I really don't think you can fairly compare Olympics performances with Worlds or other performances, because the Olympics adds its own set of pressures. Most Olympic gold-winning performances, by the ladies at least, have not been perfect. Yu Na's program was and certainly among Olympic performances it ranks at or near the top.
  36. ponta1

    ponta1 New Member

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    Well, I know I'll get bashed for this, but it's only my personal preference so i don't really care. I enjoyed Shizuka's 2006 Olympics performance the best. I realize it was lacking technically, but there was just this something else to it that kept me mesmerized, and would never tire of watching that performance over and over and over and over.......:p
  37. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    since we're on the topic of personal opinions, yu-na does almost nothing for me artistically. she is technically excellent and her jumps are flawless and seem to have more ease going into them than most ladies, but that's it.

    also most of her programs are filled with choreography, but imo most of the choreography isn't effective but rather forced. she also puts effort into expressiveness.

    I like gershwin but I didn't like her music choice for her lp nor the choreography. thus as technically excellent as her elements were (mostly her jumps) I just can't get moved or inspired by the performance beyond the technical level.

    james bond was sassy/sexy but hardly the most inspiring short program of all time or anywhere near it. her choreography there was extremely overrated, as others have stated before me, that little gun move is hardly the epitome of brilliant choreography (she's not the first to use a gun move in a ladies fs bond program either...)

    for me personally, yu-na seems to have long arms which some might call lyrical but to me they look gangly


    I watched that performance when it first came on youtube to death. I thought it was brilliant. it wasn't until afterwards when I read the technical analysis of it as well as compared it to her technically groundbreaking 2004 worlds performance that I realized it was nowhere near her best and quite restrained.

    but I still think it's stunning. a lot of ppl say that regardless of sasha falling that night on romeo and juliet, sasha's artistry was much better than shizuka. I couldn't disagree more. shizuka may have a steely/stoic persona but she has these gorgeous long limbs and flow and the music was just spectacular. her icy face didn't affect her expressive footwork and gorgeous ina bauer. on the other hand everytime they did a closeup of sasha she put on that godawful fake romantic doe eyes expression. everytime she did that in her performances I rolled my eyes. sooo fake

    I think most people were reacting to the music sasha used more than her artistic performance (beyond her spirals which are top notch), how was she embodying juliet? most of her choreography was just the typical fru fru pretty twirly arms variety.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  38. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I watched Shizuka's olympics performance and what was the ice coverage on that free skate Ina Bauer? That was amazing!!!
  39. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    I wish more skaters who could do an Ina Bauer well would do one for more than a second or two.
  40. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I think after a whole season of mostly seeing short Ina bauers seeing that caused wow reaction!.