Rank each Quadrennial for US ladies by virtue of depth from 1981

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by olympic, Aug 15, 2010.

  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    How would you rank each quadrennial by considering all the depth, talent and results for US ladies for each quadrennial starting with 1981?

    1981 - 1984 : Sumners, Zayak, Chin, De Vries
    1985 - 1988 : Thomas, Trenary, Kadavy, Chin
    1989 - 1992 : Yamaguchi, Harding, Trenary [until 1990], Kerrigan
    1993 - 1994 : Kerrigan, Harding, Erven, young jr. Kwan, Kwiatkowski
    1995 - 1998 : Kwan, Lipinski, Bobek, Kwiatkowski
    1999 - 2002 : Kwan, Hughes, Cohen, Nikodinov, Kirk
    2003 - 2006 : Kwan, Cohen, Hughes [2003 only], Meissner, Kirk, Czisny [2005]
    2007 - 2010 : Meissner, E. Hughes, Flatt, Nagasu, Zhang, Czisny, Wagner.


    1) 1989 - 1992: Yamaguchi, Harding and Trenary were all Nats. Champs in this quadrennial. Yamaguchi won '91 and '92 worlds along with the gold in Albertville '92, doing 3z-3t by '92. US ladies swept the podium at '91 Worlds. Harding is possibly the most talented tech lady skater ever, being the 1st US lady to do a 3x in winning '91 nats and '91 Worlds silver medal but would fall apart in the years afterwards. Trenary was '89 Worlds bronze medalist and '90 World Champ but wouldn't stick around due to injury, but due to the depth in talent may not have even made the team had she done so. Kerrigan got Bronze in Munich '91 and Albertville '92, then silver in Oakland '92.

    2) 1995 - 1998: This was IMO one of the most talented and results-giving quadrennial for US ladies. Kwan, Lipinski, Bobek all US Nats Champs. Kwan and Lipinski '96 and '97 World Champs. Bobek got Bronze in '95 after leading in the SP. Kwan with some legendary programs, Lipinski with up-to-that-time the most difficult 3l-3l combo. Kwan and Lipinski going 1-2 at '98 Nagano Olympics both with 7 triple performances.

    3) 1999 - 2002: Kwan swept Nats thru this period which is grand but perhaps showed the US didn't have as an incredible amount of depth as the above [or maybe Kwan was just too much for US competition]. Still, Kwan's results in this quadrennial keeps it ranked high IMO; '99 World silver medalist, '00 and '01 World Champions with perhaps her best performances ever. Hughes would step in to win the Olympic crown in '02 at SLC to give the US added depth. Kwan was '02 World silver medalist and '02 Olympic Bronze medalist. I rank below the other 2 because besides Cohen at the end of this quadrennial, there was no one else really. Nikodinov never really delivered despite the promise shown at '01 Nats

    4) 1981 - 1984: Zayak and Sumners were Nats. Champions in these years and each would win Worlds in '82 and '83 respectively. Tiffany Chin would really come into her own, too, by '84 with a 3f and a great combo of artistry and athleticism. Zayak revolutionized the use of triple jumps by ladies. But I rank lower than the above 3 quadrennials because the results were not as great by Sarajevo '84 with no gold because Roz lost to Witt and Zayak faded after her '83 injury.

    5) 1985 - 1988: Thomas, Trenary and Chin all won Nats titles in this quadrennial showing great depth. Thomas was '86 World Champ (that would be her highest attainment), '87 World Silver medalist but would be the first top US lady to do a 3t-3t and 3l. Chin in the twilight of her career would get 2 bronzes at '85 and '86 Worlds but without nothing harder than 3t's. Kadavy would win a bronze at '87 worlds utilizing the 3l in various combinations with beautiful artistry. I rank lower than the above because even with 4 great ladies, Thomas's '86 win was the high point and the US ladies basically tanked by Calgary '88. Kadavy and Trenary never really got it together in this quadrennial.

    6) 2003 - 2006: Kwan continued her reign thru most of this quadrennial at then Nationals level, but at a lesser technical level, and her biggest competition was a talented Cohen who could never really deliver when it mattered most. Hughes was basically a non-starter after SLC '02. Kwan with '03 Worlds win was the highlight, although Cohen with Silver medals from '04 - '06 added some depth. Meissner winning '06 Worlds with 2 3-3s was great, but may be not so memorable and was her first and last.

    7) 1993 - 1994: Mini-quadrennial. No medalists at '93 Worlds with all of Kerrigan, Erven and Kwiatkowski tanking. Kerrigan winning a silver in Lillehamer '94 when she perhaps should've just won the whole thing, and Harding who still showed flashes of technical brilliance keeps this team of US ladies from being ranked last.

    8) 2007 - 2010: No medalists at all at any point in this quadrennial, although there were flashes of talent. The US was a side note in the various world and Olympic competitions
     
  2. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to leave out 1981-1988, since I was not born/too young to watch skating during those years, and I don't think it's fair to evaluate them based on results I learned far after the fact.

    1999-2002 - Mostly because of Kwan, but also the OGM from Hughes and Cohen being a strong contender at all Worlds/Olympics during that time.
    1995-1998 - Kwan and Lipinski winning world championships and their Olympic medals made this period good. I rated it below 1999-2002 because Bobek wasn't CONSISTENTLY a top contender like Cohen was. I don't remember much about Kwiatkowski, besides the fact that she was there. lol.
    1989-1992 - Maybe this should have been rated higher because Yamaguchi won the OGM and world titles, Trenary won a world title, and Kerrigan won the OBM. Objectively, that might sound better than 1995-1998. However, I didn't find any of these women as impressive as Michelle or Tara, even though they achieved some of the same results. This may be because it was an earlier decade, but the fact remains that I found Nancy's 92 Olympics performance and Trenary's 1990 Worlds performance both quite lackluster and not standing up to what Michelle or Tara ever did. I can't comment on Harding because I actually don't remember watching her at all.
    2003-2006 - Kwan and Hughes were still there but were fading. Meissner was a flash-in-the-pan world champion which gives some positivity to this era but since she didn't consistently achieve top results it seems less significant than the world title wins of some of the other American ladies. The highlight of this era was really Sasha even though she didn't win gold at the 06 Olympics.
    1993-1994 - Nancy was the only one to shine in this period with her OSM. Harding could have, but you know what happened and didn't she kind of tank at the Olympics anyway? I don't remember Ervin at all and I don't think Kwiatkowski achieved remarkable results. Kwan was too young at this point to be significant.
    2007-2010 - This is the worst period for American ladies in a long time. No Olympic medals or world medals in 2010. The last one was Meissner's in 06 IIRC. It looks like it's getting better though, Nagasu shows promise and maybe Flatt and Wagner.
     
  3. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    1. Yamaguchi, Harding, Trenary, Kerrigan. An Olympic and 2 time World Champion, a 3 time (2 in this quad) Nationals Champion and World Champion, a skater who won Nationals and Skate America one year over that years World Champion and placed 2nd to her at Worlds, and a skater who was on the podium at the Olympics and 2 Worlds. Clearly the top quad of American women overall.

    2. Kwan, Lipinski, Bobek, Kwiatkowski. Strictly because of Kwan and Tara really. Although Bobek had her moments.

    3. Sumners, Zayak, Chin, De Vries. Two of the skaters won World titles and multiple World and/or Olympic medals. The other two showed great promise and were capable of outskating the other two at times.

    4. 1985 - 1988 : Thomas, Trenary, Kadavy, Chin. 4 very strong skaters but only one of them really won big, that being Thomas of course.

    5. 1999 - 2002 : Kwan, Hughes, Cohen, Nikodinov, Kirk. More depth than the 2003-2006 quad even though I consider Cohen of 03-06 a much stronger skater than Hughes 99-2002.

    6. 2003 - 2006 : Kwan, Cohen, Hughes [2003 only], Meissner, Kirk, Czisny [2005]. It was all about Kwan and Sasha, with really nobody else even noteworthy this quad, and although both were very successful neither emerged as a really dominant skater this quad. Should note Meissner winning a World title to end the quad which makes her significant even if she only really popped up at the end, but still not enough to push it over 99-2002.

    7. 1993 - 1994 : Kerrigan, Harding, Erven, young jr. Kwan, Kwiatkowski. Well Kerrigan was pretty good most of this time, and Harding once in awhile still was too.

    8. 2007 - 2010 : Meissner, E. Hughes, Flatt, Nagasu, Zhang, Czisny, Wagner. What is there to say really. Credit again to Meissner for winning a World but it wasnt actually in this quad.
     
  4. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    Actually it was because it was after the Olympics.
     
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Not for my money. The quad finishes after the post Olympic Worlds which completes that season.
     
  6. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    You should also mention Holly Cook, the (surprise) 90 worlds bronze medalist. Never a serious challenger for nat champ or a world medal afterwards, but she was a fun skater and deserves a mention here.

    Just how strong the US ladies field was then can be seen in the fact tht in just two years they had five (5) different world medalists.

    90 g Trenary
    90 b Cook

    91 g Yamaguchi
    91 s Harding
    91 b Kerrigan

    This was also partly due to the elimination of figures as Trenary and Cook won their medals largely on the strength of their figures while Yamaguchi and Kerrigan could only medal if figures weren't a factor. Harding was the only skater who could have medalled with and without figures but she didn't get to worlds in time.
     
  7. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

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    Well, one of those is a biennium short of a quadrennium. ;)
     
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    However if Kerrigan had made the 1990 World team instead of Cook wouldnt one of Yamaguchi or Kerrigan had to medal at Worlds that year even with the figures? And that nearly happened, Yamaguchi was 2nd in the LP at Nationals over Kerrigan on only a 5-4 split and had Kerrigan been 2nd in the LP over Yamaguchi she would have been 3rd overall and bumped Cook from the team.
     
  9. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    Yamguchi maybe (though without Cook, maybe the judges would have put Lebedeva* on the podium instead of her). Kerrigan? I really, really doubt it.

    Wasn't she leading going into the lp after strong figures and a clean sp?
     
  10. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Trenary was leading going into the LP at Nationals. Harding was 2nd going into the LP and Yamaguchi 3rd, but the 3 were in a virtual tie. Cook was actually 4th going into the LP, and Kerrigan 5th.

    I dont know much about Kerrigan`s figures except they werent good. I figured they were about the same as Yamaguchi`s though.
     
  11. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    I meant Lebedeva was first going into the lp at worlds IIRC.

    I find it hard to believe that Kerrigan debuting at worlds would make it through figures unscathed and then do an lp that could put her on the podium (she might do okay in the sp though, that was always her biggest strength).
     
  12. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry you are right, Lebedeva was leading going into the LP at Worlds.

    I was just thinking Nancy would probably place around where Kristi did in figures as she did at Nationals in both 89 and 90. In the SP she would probably be 3rd right behind Midori and Kristi if she did her usual clean short with a double toe-triple toe combo. Then in the LP well based on Nationals I could see Nancy beating Kristi in the LP if Kristi skated the same way in her LP at Worlds. At Nationals Nancy did her usual (pre 94) so so LP with only 3 clean triples and still very nearly beat Kristi in the LP who skated even worse in the Worlds LP than the Nationals LP. Kristi wasnt considered that artistic yet and she wasnt even that consistent although she was attempting much more content wise than Nancy. So based on that I could see her maybe medaling in place of Cook, especialy with Cook out of the picture.

    Then again I am probably not considering the newcomer factor enough. At Worlds in the SP the previous year Kristi made her debut and was the only one to do a triple lutz in the SP and was still placed only 5th in the short below Lebedeva.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2010
  13. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    So ... Kristi would place around where Kristi did and would be right behind Kristi then she could maybe beat Kristi??????

    You might want to edit that for clarity
     
  14. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. ;)
     
  15. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    :rofl: Kristi - Kristi + Kristi = Kristi. :cool: The woman is a OGM, DWTS champ, mother, and now also a very confusing math problem.

    Considering fully rotated triples, Mirai Nagasu would absolutely have SCHOOLED Nancy Kerrigan on TES, were they both competing at the same time and judged with CoP. :) Can you imagine Nancy or Tonya trying to do some of those spins? Hilarious.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
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  16. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

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    Nancy was an underrotator??