Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by FiveRinger, Jul 19, 2012.
Ven made me sick. That is all.
Way to go from the top to the bottom. Idiot.
And whiny Gunner is actually very sweet and savvy about the bread and butter of the industry.
I think more savvy than sweet.
I thought all of the dresses were meh.
The only really outstanding transformation was Fabio's models's hair. Awesome haircut! But, as MLP already said, someone teach her to walk! The dress was interesting, but not great, and the belt was horrible.
Ven was an ass to the highest degree, but they won't cut him soon. He's too talented. But, what was with the batwing sleeves? Hideous! You could tell that he didn't even try.
I never like a waist high belt with a drop waist dress unless it is has a bodice, then a middle cut with little loops where a loose belt fits, then the skirt dropping out of the middle cut. I am no teknik so do you know what I mean? This dress didn't look like it was meant to have a belt.
Do mens wear designers have the same snobbery toward the male model body? Somehow I doubt it, but if they do, who would want to fit Ven? Pot.Kettle.Black.
I have to say that I totally loved Heidi's first response to his use of the phrase "real woman"--"Who is not real?" Because I have long wondered why we use that word. I have often been shoved into the weird "not real" category (which some people I know consider anyone who wears a single digit size) and wondered what exactly about me is not real.
^^ I agree, the dress didn't look like it was meant to have a belt. The belt looked like an afterthought. It was brown on a black and grey tone dress. It was a casual, woven belt on a dress that was more tailored. Possibly a wide black belt could have worked. But, the model was not curvy, and I think a belt just cuts her at the wrong place. The dress was also too long and voluminous, and was wearing her, rather that her wearing the dress.
If you're not real, I guess I am not either. Unfortunately, weight is still PC to criticize. People who are bigger than the "norm" (whatever that is), and people who are thinner than the "norm" are fair game.
Kors did say the belt was unnecessary. I think if that dress had been just to or just above the knee, it would have been much better.
I actually liked Ven's skirt.
A simple top would have really set it off.
I didn't like his attitude toward his client.
Worse, he kept reminding her, and everyone else, that he thought she was fat.
I had the feeling that the friend had talked her into participating.
She seemed diffident and unenthusiastic from the start - unlike most of the other women.
An experience like that - and Ven's behavior, isn't going to make her feel better about her self-image, which should be one of the purposes of fashion; and the mission of a good designer.
I wonder how Tim felt?
I'm a size 16. Ven can kiss my NOT fat arse. I wonder if they had back up contestants in case his had walked out? I would have walked on him. Her fist of doom on the runway was hysterical. She looked like she was ready to clock him.
On the bright side, his whining on the runway finally showed the judges that he's really a 'one way monkey' (tm Snape) with a total diva tude. I think they only kept him so he can be a factory grunt for next week's challenge (which I'm guessing is 'design for Heidi's NB line').
Gunnar impressed me. But, he said at the beginning of the season that his clientel is the 'older Southern woman'. Unlike our recent graduate (Ven), Gunnar has practical real world experience and realizes that that type of comment will get someone a bad rap.
Good to see old 'raised by wolves' Elena finally smiling.
I thought Gunnar was a hoot!! I so loved the interaction between his client and him.
And as PD said, wtf with that dumb stunt at the end?? Why would they even suggest that maybe two would be eliminated?? All it did was made me even more pissed that pillsbury doughboy wasn't sent home.
Speaking of which, I didn't think Nathan deserved to be eliminated. Of the bottom 3, I liked his the best.
I thought the belt was a misguided attempt to add that old favorite "the pop of color."
In retrospect, it was clear that the entire episode was edited to create drama with Ven. We should have known he wouldn't be eliminated with all the focus. Ven has an excellent eye for fabric and drape and could have done a much better job with this challenge. He was annoyed from the very start and I wonder if he was sort of maneuvered by the producers to produce the drama. His "story" was pretty much it on this episode. This show, like most so-called reality TV, is highly manipulated and scripted. It really is difficult to know what is "real" and what is a script. I doubt he's going home anytime soon.
I'm sure you're on to something.
Tim on Facebook:
Tim even SAID the line about being 'on the cusp' IN the episode, TO Ven. Dude, when every other designer, even the normally bitchy ones, are staring at you like you just set fire to a puppy, consider that maybe it's not your model. Maybe it's YOU. I'm sure the producers gave us the worst possible edit for drama, but I don't think they paid off his 'model' to be that miserable.
Though given a LOT of the designers' initial reaction when Heidi brought out the "nominators" was much the same "OMG NORMAL PEOPLE", some might just have been better at hiding their Olivier-esque revulsion of BOOBS!
And the least-offensive of the bottom 3 went home, which was annoying. Ven made clothes that were ugly and cheap, forget flattering the model he clearly couldn't stand, and Sanjia (or however she spells that) took a short, short-waisted girl and turned her into the torso-less wonder. Seriously, there was NOTHING right about that dress for that girl except, maybe, possibly, the color.
Much as I think Ven was an ass, I still think the right person went home. That dress with the mesh would make an Ice Dancer cringe.
It's not a competition for "America's Favorite Designer".
Ven wouldn't win that, certainly; but, he has great skills and a design POV.
The Marie Claire/working wardrobe challenge showed that he's more than a "one note" designer.
That said, another "misstep" will send him home, IMO,
Yes, waaaaayyyy too much fabric.
It did?!?!? The manipulated top in the Marie Claire challenge looked rather a lot like his design in he dress in the first challenge, and he used some of that same technique in the dress he made for Kenley.
Granted they looked nice, but it's the same base technique for all those designs.
I think Comrade Snape wuzrobbed again. Fabio's dress was too long and he didn't style it well, The shoes and belt were really poor choices and I thought the necklace would have have worked better against darker colors. Sonjia's dress was a disaster. Tim told her it should be knee-length; she really should have listened to him. And that big knot in front gave the poor girl a third boob. Shennanigans on Gunnar being T3.
I don't know what they have against Dimitri. I like his aesthetic. And, I know this is crazy, but I like Elena. I can't explain it, but there is something about her that makes me smile. She can be witchy, but I don't think she's mean, just neurotic in a very art director sort of way .
peibeck, we'll have to "agree to disagree", about Ven's dress.
I like him, as well.
This. i think one of the reasons he treated his client so shabbily was becuase he knew there was no way he could do his usual fabrigami (tm Laura Bennett) and make it work for her.
Even if they gave him the worst edit possible, they didn't force him to say what he said. It didn't appear to be taken out of context. I think they focued on Ven simply because the other designers seemed to all click with the models. It's not like PR hasn't focused on three or four bitchy designers in the "real woman" challenge before. Everyone else either seemed to geniuinely vibe with the customer or if they didn't, they were smart enough to keep it professionally cordial.
What I love is the almost-40 comment, because he looks almost 40. I was SHOCKED to see he was only 28. Also, I'm 32 and don't know anyone my age who would wear drape-y things. Whether he wants to admit it or not, he designs for an older aesthetic.
I can't stand dealing with people who are extremely arrogant or oblivious. And Ven has managed to be both in this episode (and probably in his everyday life). I can't believe he actually said "I don't think I should be the last one." The other designers looked incredulous. I wonder if any of them said anything to him about how he embarrassed his client. And maybe I imagined this, but did anyone else notice that he rarely addressed his questions or discussion to his model? I know it may be in the editing, but to me it appeared that he barely looked at her. That's kind of a problem.
Yeah, he does like that technique a lot! I predict a return of it next week, when he gets to work with an "unreal" woman as his model.
Fabio's dress was okay, but something about it looked off or old fashioned to me. Maybe it was the belt. I didn't care for the neckline.
I'm still loving Snape!! I love that he's been in the top lately and hope that this trend continues!! At the beginning, it looked like he might be edited for the win this week.
Ven's behavior made Gunner look that much more impressive. I liked how he treated is model. I didn't expect him to be that nice...
^ I wasn't all that surprised, actually. Gunnar's real-life client base is "real" women. He wouldn't want to alienate the women who pay his bills by acting like a complete dick to his challenge client on national television. Ven, on the other hand...I don't know who buys his clothes in real life. Or who will after this show.
Yeah Gunnar is whiny with 'tude, but he's never been as much of a turn-off to me as Ven has been. No amount of editing could disguise or enhance Ven's utter disregard and cluelessness re the humanity of his client. Ven's comments throughout were unbelieveable and petty. He is just so full of himself. I agree with Nick Verreos' blog title: "You ain't no waif yourself!"
I love Dimitry (Snape) -- he's got great sewing/ design skills, and he seems to be the cool head amidst the sturm und drang. Yes that Dimitry seems to do the same silhouette, but he does it stylishly and with good taste. I've loved everything he has done, and feel he should have at least one win by now. He has definitely been in the top a number of times.
The designers have got to come in with a certain amount of strategy and self-confidence (but not overweening arrogance). It is so easy to lose one's way in that tense, stressful, limited time, limited outside contact environment. Some of them act as if they have never seen past episodes of the show and are surprised about these challenges!? It seemed a bit to me like some designers were caught up in the successful color of Melissa's outfit in the last comp, and Sonji seemed stuck on the style of her previous win, instead of realizing the special needs of her client (who was short in height, but wide in girth -- I shudder to think what Ven would have said about this real girl's shape had she been assigned to him). I feel sorry for Nathan who is a cool gent, but perhaps not as talented a designer as some of the others. Nathan did have a client he could have really scored with (design-wise ) if he'd used better judgment and better design skills.
Too bad Ven's character is so far below his talent (which is good btw but not better than everyone else's like he seems to think). I am sure Tim Gunn was making a reference to that fact when he complimented Nathan's character before his unfortunate departure. The nerve of Ven with his last petty comment re others' "weak designs." What about your "weak" character, Ven?
I really like Dimitry and I'd like to see him get a win and make final 3, and I'd enjoy seeing Chris and Sonji in the final 3 too. Melissa is wonderful too and a top favorite for sure. Fabio is okay, but I haven't been overly impressed with his designs. I hope Ven leaves soon. I'm surprised that Elena is such a fan favorite -- she often grates. Elena's clearly talented, but her designs have been okay to so-so. The girl with the dreads is not that outstanding. She seems to be just getting by with safe or bottom. Gunnar hasn't fared too badly but I don't see him in the top four.
Yes, Ven was set up as he claims. But so were the other designers. There was nothing at all "random" about the assignments. Did we see the button bag? Do we believe that the button bag is really random? I'm sure the B-M monkeys worked their little butts off finding the "right" clients to pair with the designers for better or worse. Alicia does the tomboy thing and she got the sexy girl. Colorphobe Elena got the client who loves color. Sonjia's aesthetic works best on tall, slender types and she got the short jock chick. Christopher and Gunnar got the type of client they probably work with at home - the results could have gone either way or just landed them in the middle. (Perfect for the C-G "rivalry".) Nathan has a music/performing degree. He got the singer which could have worked in his favor but didn't. Dmitry got the Plain Jane with potential and that worked out for him. Fabio is edgy and got the edgy girl. Melissa had immunity so it didn't matter who she got. Which more or less boils down to half the designers getting clients who set them up to succeed, and half getting clients who set them up to fail. It didn't quite pan out that way, but I'm sure that was the thinking behind the assignments.
Nothing about PR is random.
I think they set Ven up. But, Ven chose to behave badly. He could have taken the high road and treated his model with respect, regardless of hoe he really felt. The only thing, I do wonder, is if they get directed to exaggerate their "quirky" behaviors.
From what Tim Gunn has said and written, they are not directed on how to behave. Interestingly enough, he has said that some of them have been much worse than what we saw on air.
Well, I tried to give Ven an out, but I guess not .
A few people have commented that it's especially ironic that Ven has such an attitude about average sized women, when he is no slim Jim. But, I've seen it before. My husband is at least 50 pounds overweight. Yet, he is constantly making remarks about a friend of mine, who is overweight. I've pointed out to my husband that he is just as overweight as she is. His answer: Well it's different, she's a woman. One of these days I'm going to clock him with one of my 4.5" heels!
I think that the "attitude" is part of the "fashion brainwashing" that many people in the industry seem to experience: that only Size 0 women deserve well designed clothes!
I wonder what size the women in Ven's family are?
I have a friend whose husband is obese while she is a size 8. Whenever she gains the slightest bit of weight he starts trying to monitor her food and calls her "big piglet". It makes me want to clock him. But she shrugs her shoulders and says it is all okay.
I dont like Vens designs. They are OLD and I dont know a woman in her 20s, 30s or 40s who would want to wear that stuff. He is great with fabrics and draping. Instead of taking lemons and making lemonade - he blew it.
I think he was set up and that models were given to test the designers. They edited that episode to give it extra drama like they did with Chris and Gunner.
I think they were inspired because everyone else noticed how poorly Ven treated the woman, but I have to say she had no enthusiasm from the very first second. Still, I think he is to blame and it is worse that he refuses to recognize that part of his job is to make his customer happy with themselves.
Also - istn it a little weird that they accessories they offer were not large enough for a curvier model? like those belts...
I feel sorry for Nathan. I like him even more since he took the responsibility for not taking himself seriously as a designer in this challenge.
It was nice to see Elena happy.
My favorite overall is Snape. Melissa and Fabio are fun too.
Very few 20 yos buy couture and probably not many 30yos. It's the 40-70 yos who actually have money to spend. Unless you're designing for the Gap or the Limited, they need to design for the 50-70 yos because that's who can afford to buy.
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