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Program Information for the 2014-2015

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by bronwynsings, Apr 7, 2014.

  1. elif

    elif Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for reminding me lauravvv, Virtue/Moir fans absolutely believe Virtue/Moir can do no wrong but I didn't know they also thought Zoueva can do no wrong. :lol: My fault.:lol:

    P.S. I write that post months ago... I don't know why you are still angry to me. :eek: What can I say? there was non-holding crossover entry. Its not like I lied or something.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014
  2. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ITA stjeaskategym. Jason I believe is just 19, and he has the opportunity to develop at his own pace without rushing to put quads into his program before they are solid. The reason he has this opportunity is because with his extraordinary style, musicality, well-rounded talent and charismatic ability to engage with the audience, he's already hugely competitive without the quad. Glacier Falls seems to have been a good outing for all. I saw the original debuts of Jason Brown's programs for the new season at Broadmoor Open (those videos were shown at a closer on-ice level, so it's interesting to see the programs again from a long distance overhead view at Glacier Falls). Both of Jason's new programs are excellent and I can't wait to see how they develop further over the course of the season. Jason cut back on some of his planned triples this time and his triple axel was underrotated as already mentioned. However, it's a summer comp and he doesn't need to go all out at every summer event. His choreo is superb, cream-of-the-crop rockin'!

    I'm impressed with Grant Hochstein's lp as well, especially this early in the season. And I always enjoy watching Sean Rabbit too. :)

    Interesting all the views/ comments about Polina. I hold to what I've said already, and I do agree with those who made points about her sp music. I actually was not blown away by the music or the performance, although I could admire her technical precision. The Fairy Dance fp is a different story. I enjoyed watching Polina skate her fp more than her sp. The fp is more relaxed and flowing. She seemed to be enjoying herself more as well. I think Polina has very good ice coverage and decent speed, but she quite often has a bit overlong prep going into her triple/ triples and difficult triple jumps. However, she completes them well and lands them beautifully without a hitch generally. Perhaps she will get better at reducing her hesitation going into those jumps. She is still in the gawky stage, but she does tend to have good control over her very long arms and legs, and at this stage I find her more talented and appealing than Julia Lip and Pogorilaya. Certainly she has better jump technique than both of those Russian ladies.
     
  3. MissJD

    MissJD Active Member

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    Does anyone know program info for these dancers that have already competed? Paradis/ Ouellette, hawayek/ baker, cannuscio/ mcmanus, and gilles/poirer? Thanks!
     
  4. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Eh, where did you get that I think Zoueva can do no wrong :rolleyes:? I was only talking about her choreography for her two top teams, mostly Virtue/Moir. The rest I just don't find important enough to discuss at length.

    Again, where did you get that I am angry with you :eek:? I was never angry with you in the first place. To be honest, it's not important enough to me to be angry about. I am a Virtue/Moir fan, but not to that point. Actually, I forgot about your posts on the topic very soon after, just remembered about that while reading this new post about Zoueva choreography, but I wasn't even completely sure that it was you who wrote those posts. Besides, I wasn't trying to argue with you about the particular entry of the particular FD - at least not now. The only reason why I mentioned that was because it showed what you think of the 'Seasons' FD, so I realized it would be useless to argue with you about that FD - and that's basically what I said. Well, I did mention Ilinykh/Katsalapov because it seems that you always brought that step sequence entry up when people said that Ilinykh/Katsalapov's programs were empty, which shows that your problem was not as much Virtue/Moir's few seconds of crossovers, as people saying those things about Ilinykh/Katsalapov (by the way, I liked Ilinykh/Katsalapov's programs for last season - the FD had beautiful moments, including the impressive lifts, and they sold it very well, although it didn't have a lot of transitions in the way of steps and changes of holds).
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  5. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    I don't usually quote things I find appalling because it only draws attention to it. For this sentence I will make an exception. I am assuming you would never say how absolutely huge and fat someone looks? So why would you say Polina looks "tall & gigantic" looks "...kinda like Big Bird." It is clear it is not complimentary. Polina has no control over how tall she grows. She does have control over how she trains, how she presents herself, and how hard she works at her sport. She does those three things very well, in fact, she probably trains twice as hard as most elite skaters simply because hasn't had as much time in this body. Tall skaters face huge discrimination every day in this sport. They face it from coaches, judges, and the ignorant public. There is no reason tall girls and women can't skate and skate well even at an elite level. Comments like yours are extremely offensive and uncalled for.
     
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  6. tutuchat

    tutuchat Member

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    I am in total agreement with mag's comments regarding tall skaters and also found the comment re "big bird" offensive.
     
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  7. Amantide

    Amantide Well-Known Member

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    Being tall is not offensive is it? I mean, Carolina is tall, for a skater anyway, and most of the people were complimentary about her. Domnina was tall also, if I'm not mistaken.


    Well, some of the best programs of V&M were not Zueva's choreo.:p
     
  8. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I know very well that Jennifer Swan helped choreograph 'The Great Gig in the Sky' and 'Carmen', but she didn't choreograph the skating. 'Funny Face', 'Hip Hip Chin Chin', even 'Mahler' and 'Seasons' that were choreographed by Zoueva (well, they got help from a dancer for 'Hip Hip', but still it was Zoueva who put that on ice) were not all 'small lifts and poses' either. Especially 'Funny Face' that had a lot of steps in it.
     
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia Preparing for U.S. club comp. season!

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    Re-posting from the Lake Placid IDC thread in Kiss and Cry:
    Cannuscio/McManus' FD: Danse Macabre with Young Frankenstein in the middle.

    Gilles/Poirier debuted their Short Dance at Minto Summer Skate this past weekend but I haven't see music posted yet.

    ETA: Ditto for Paradis/Ouellette who competed SD only at Lake Placid.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  10. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I'm liking both of Brezina' s music selections and it will be interesting to see if he equals the music with good choreo. Who is his choreographer, btw? Has any other skater used Mozart's Marriage of Figaro, can anyone recall?
     
  11. Amantide

    Amantide Well-Known Member

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    She designed the choreography than Marina, or her assistants and specialist put that choreo on ice. That's normal, Swan is not from the skating world, and neither is Jean Marc Genereux who did their last SD and Hip Hip, if I'm not mistaken. If anything, Marina helped not the other way around. ;) I liked Mahler and their Flamenco from 2010.
    Anyway, my point is that Zueva is not the best out there in terms of choreo, but that's just my opinion. I prefer someone like Marianne Haguenauer, Krylova&Camarlengo (whoever does the choreo in that duo) more than Zueva, which I think is becoming stagnant.
    She was lucky, very lucky lucky, to have a couple like V&M who were not only great skaters and artists but also able to challenge themselves and ask other people too for programs and new ideas, such as Carmen. A true masterpiece, IMO.

    No, I don't remember anyone. G&G used the overture in the last minute of the LP in 88, but it was like a "modern" beat and short.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  12. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    There was a US skater, Dan Hollender, who used the marriage of figaro. I think he made it to worlds at least once.
     
  13. Amantide

    Amantide Well-Known Member

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    A quick search gives me Oda. His SP in 2005-2006 was a mix of The Barber&The Marriage, with David Wilson choreo. Still it's used in the last minute and the overture part.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpUVnJXF2qI
     
  14. Amantide

    Amantide Well-Known Member

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    You're right, here is the video of his SP at worlds 1996: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk_7le8ViSY
    He made it to worlds twice, I see, 1996 and 1997.

    I like the fact that Brezina is using The Marriage of Figaro for his FS, and if it's the Overture he doesn't even need to cut it.
    I like that. :cheer2:
    It is a demanding music though. It has no pause or slow section, and it has a big crescendo.
     
  15. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I understand you, but I was not talking about the choreography as a whole, I was talking about the skating/steps and also things like changes of holds that had a lot to do with their programs being more difficult than just "small lifts and poses". Swan and Genereux didn't choreograph the steps for sure, as they know nothing (or very little) about that. Of course, choreography in the usual sense is very important in ice dancing (also to me), but ice dancing is also a discipline of figure skating, so the skating itself matters too (or at least it should).

    In any case, my original goal wasn't even so much to defend Zoueva as a choreographer, as to defend the programs of her top teams. What speaks well for Zoueva is that such programs were possible under her coaching, no matter how much work who put into them.
     
  16. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    I am going to assume you are not a tall skater. You clearly don't understand and your comment only shows your ignorance. Being tall is not offensive. Being called "huge" and compared to "big bird" is. Furthermore, it is generally accepted that being a tall female skater is a bad thing so the comments made cannot in anyway be described as anything but negative. Polina is a minor. She is also, by all accounts, a hard working, nice kid. She doesn't deserve to spoken about in those terms and neither do any other skaters. As I said in my original post, tall female skaters face a massive up hill battle to be taken seriously. They need to be exceedingly better than their small counterparts in order to place well. Coaches, judges, and fans need to look at what happens on the ice and stop making assumptions about skaters based on their height or potential height.
     
  17. Amantide

    Amantide Well-Known Member

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    Well yes, but that's because V&M were great. :p
    I start speaking about them and I feel sad. :(

    I don't want to attack her either, and what you're saying it's true. It's just that sometimes I do get irritated, a bit, when other people's work does not get recognized.
     
  18. Amantide

    Amantide Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a skater but I'm quite tall, I imagine, 1.75.

    It depends how you look at it. An eagle is a beautiful big bird. Maybe she didn't mean to be offensive at all by saying that.

    Again, whether is tall or short I think a skater is judged by how he/she skates. I brought you examples of tall skates who were very good and loved. Polina in fact reminds a lot Carolina, which is a beauty.

    Do you think she has not been taken seriously by the people in the business and by the fans?
    Who are these other tall skaters who have been suffering from judges etc. because of their height?

    Thanks for enlightening me.
     
  19. eternitygoddess

    eternitygoddess Well-Known Member

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    Big bird was probably a reference to Polina's big bird yellow costume last season.
     
  20. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    I just got aroung to watching Polina's new programs. Wowza. We have a new star! It is amazing to see someone with that technical assurance together with musicality, flow, line and a sense of style - really, she has everything to dominate US skating for years if she can just stay healthy and continue as she's doing. I was dying for the twizzles in her FS! And as for the SP, I am not wild about the music but even at the camera's great distance, it was obvious to me that she had a completely different posture and style than she used for the FS. Her artistry is quieter than Jason's, and she doesnt have his genius choreography - though I thought Galindo's programs were excellent - but she is already beyond Gracie and Ashley in that realm except when Ashley is at her very best. There is a clarity about her style, a solid technical floor for the interpretative "dance" - and she does move with a dancer's grace, it's thrilling to watch - that is immensely satisfying.

    I know I sound like a fangirl but she really is all that, IMHO.

    To me she outdoes Gracie. The matchup I am interested in is with Mirai, if Mirai's competitive programs can harness the beauty, emotion, and fire we saw in her show programs this past spring, and if Mirai can continue to conquer her technical "demons."
     
  21. Amantide

    Amantide Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you, and even when Ashley is in her best day technically Polina is better.
    She has plenty of time to grow more artistically and reach the high.
     
  22. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    :lol:

    I agree with Amantide. Having read Nadine's posts for years, I am quite sure she didnt mean to insult Polina, who is exactly the sort of skater she woud adore. (Nadine, correct me if I am wrong.) She just has a uniquely colorful, passionate, off the cuff way of writing - very enjoyable for me, maybe not everyone's cup of tea.

    Also, she is one of the very few posters on skating boards who refuses to hide behind a pseudonym. I admire her nerve, which I cant match, and, in my personal book of reckoning, it gives her bonus points that make up for when she occasionally goes overboard. But the huge Big Bird statement didnt bother me anyway, since IMO one look at Polina skating rules out any of the negative interpretations that are being placed on Nadine's words.
     
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  23. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    I personally think Polina's statuesque presence on the ice is *stunning* to watch. :) I've always loved watching the way Kostner covers the ice when she skates, both with her body (she skates so big and is parallel to the ice a lot of times) and the lean of the blades. I also love that about Abbott. Polina is like that too. I hope she will keep the red dress for the SP as it just accentuates her presence all the more.
    ITA. Your post sums up how I feel about Polina's skating. Her artistry is already more defined this year than last. There's so much exciting potential.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  24. allezfred

    allezfred Ragin' for equality Staff Member

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    Wow, you really have no shame in your dislike for Russian skaters. I've been critical of Lipnitskaia's skating technique in the past, but to say her programmes last season had no theme is ummm interesting. :lol:

    Polina Edmunds reminds me of Carolina Kostner which can only be a good thing. :)
     
  25. Amantide

    Amantide Well-Known Member

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  26. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Wow, you don't know my tastes at all. Some of my favorite skaters outside ladies are Russian. I loved Maria Butyrskaya. I guess you're referring to the current Russians. I actually like Lipnitskaya, but seriously that LP cut of Schindler's list was just the same tune over and over again for four minutes while Lipnitskaya made that one forlorn face in the beginning (a brilliant piece of choreography having her back to the judges then having her turn) and then went all stoned face throughout the rest of it. The music had the same solemn tempo so she didn't have to really express anything. A blank face (which to me was more about concentrating from one element to the next rather than some subtle expression of tragedy) worked, and with the costume, people bought it.

    I'm curious to see her take on Mulan and see if she can actually show variation of expression in a competitive routine. Although I'm sort of cringing at that music choice.

    The only other Russian skater I've commented on lately was Sotnikova, but I am far from alone in being less than enamored with her.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
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  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia Preparing for U.S. club comp. season!

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  28. Dilng

    Dilng Well-Known Member

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    :respec: ITA that is exactly how I would describe that program!
     
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  29. DobrinFan

    DobrinFan Well-Known Member

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  30. DobrinFan

    DobrinFan Well-Known Member

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