Profile: Michelle Kwan

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Dec 29, 2012.

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Would Michelle Kwan have likely won the 2002 Olympics if Frank Carroll remained coach

Poll closed Jan 29, 2013.
  1. Yes

    58 vote(s)
    62.4%
  2. No

    11 vote(s)
    11.8%
  3. Don't Know

    24 vote(s)
    25.8%
  1. RunnersHigh

    RunnersHigh Active Member

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    Funny and very sad because I'll post the similar replies in 9 or 15 years later. :wuzrobbed
  2. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Well, I feel old now.
  3. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    LOL, and I remember the first time I watched her, at 1994 Junior Worlds, I was impressed...Yes, I feel old too !
  4. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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  5. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this! I hadn't seen this before, and I thought I'd seen everything featuring the Kween. :)
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  6. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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  7. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    It was really interesting to see Kwan talk about the Russian school of figure skating. A lot of her interviews don't really go into that much depth of the actual training and philosophies behind the sport, so it was nice to see that here.

    I was looking up Kwan youtube clips, and I found a very recent one of her and her sister, Karen, partaking in a dance class.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=WMhisPbIOlQ

    Nice to see her in some sort of performance again.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I always found the talk of Kwans so called decline before the Olympic season funny. In the 3 Worlds that quad before the 2001-2002 she went silver, gold, and gold, and she lost a grand total of 4 events in all those 3 years, coming 2nd at the other 4. She won back to back World titles, the only time in her career she would do so, and her 2000 and 2001 World winning LPs were her best skates ever when factoring in technical prowess. Her worst skates did not come close to matching her 97 Nationals or even 97 GPF skates in struggles. Her decline didnt begin until the Olympic season and AFTER she fired Frank and Lori. So if she doesnt win every single program, or some critics who are just looking for things to complain about or ways to introduce rivals nitpicked parts of her skating, that should be something to be paranoid about and just cause for major changes. Hello this isnt the 1920s and the Henie and Salchow no such thing as competitive skating era anymore.
  9. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    ^ And let's face, either of Slutskaya's or Kwan's 2002 World performances would have been good enough to win gold in SLC. Between the two, it just depends on who is on the judging panel and what they preferred because they were more or less similar in content to one another with Irina's performance showing off her strengths and Kwan's performance showing off her strengths.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30F6pRJH9C4

    ^ Although I don't think the choreography matched up to say her 2001 Song of the Black Swan performance, I do think had she hit the 3/3 here, this could have been considered one of her best performances.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  10. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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  11. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    I was just watching her 2001 QR performance. Before she skated, the heel of her boot came off and she had to get it reglued on, with the boot being 1/8" higher than before. Considering how awkward that must be for jumping, she still skated brilliantly and landed 7 triples! It's situations like these that make her career so unbelievable.
  12. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I'd never seen that Russian tv interview either ... interesting. MKF often has threads re rarely seen/ obscure MK photos. I wonder whether this particular interview was ever posted on MKF by the amazing Heather?

    BTW, MK was very gracious to pose with these two fans in Georgetown at Ben & Jerry's: :cool:

    http://instagram.com/p/YV0jJGst5M/
  13. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    My all-time favorite Kwan dress was the first Dream of Desdemona. It's my favorite short program costume of all time. The second one she wore was beautiful but the first was absolutely perfect.:swoon:

    For exhibition I loved her blue Dante's Prayer costume. There was something so elegant and classy about it. :swoon: Witt had a similar costume but the color, fit and cut were so much more flattering on the more petite Kwan.

    For long programs, the simple designs/lines for Red Violin and Lyra Angelica were divine.

    Funnily enough, I never liked Vera Wang's creations for Kwan, yet I loved the costumes she created for Kerrigan. Her Kerrigan designs were standouts, but her Kwan designs weren't anything to write home about.

    Post 1996, I only hated four of Kwan's costumes. The creamiscle 2001 worlds short , the original Lyra Angelica, the frumpy red Spartacus and the gold Bolero. The last two designs were extremely unflattering on her body type. I disliked her 98 Rach costume, too, but I didn't hate it.

    And I don't care what Frank says, I liked the Pocahontas costume. :D
  14. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    I thought MK under Vera was the most elegantly dressed skater of all time. Omg...the 2002 purple Rachmaninoff dress was sumptuous

    First of all that shade of purple is stunning, the bottom of the dress was made of more flowy material which looked good in motion, while the front had thousands of swarovski crystals sewn in a leaflike pattern down the front. soooooo elegant. i wonder why she never re-wears these costumes, she paid so much for them!

    the dresses she's been wearing at yuna's skating shows have been HORRIBLE. that purple cut out lady tarzan one was the epitome of hideous...the other ones she's been wearing are very basic glittery juniorish dresses. i wonder if it's cos she doesn't fit into those tiny tiny vera wang dresses anymore
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  15. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I too loved MK's Desdemona original sp dress, which beautifully suited the theme of the music. I think Vera Wang loves dressing Michelle and has done a fine job over the years (altho' there was a white skating dress once that seemed ill-fitting). In any case, Vera did an especially wonderful job creating MK's wedding dress:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...olitical-scion-wed-Rhode-Island-ceremony.html

    And, the below might be the red dress by Vera that MK reportedly wore during her wedding reception (altho' we never saw pics of her in it at the wedding reception). Might MK have shopped her closet (similar to another famous Michelle) for this Washington D.C. gala? Hmmm:

    http://washingtonlife.smugmug.com/2...-2013/28387151_4cG5KV#!i=2403850706&k=7Km8Qjk
  16. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    The material and design is reminiscent of the Bolero costume. She looks stunning in red but that dress is ugly.
  17. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    I thought once Michelle started wearing Wang, she stopped standing out, costume wise. I can't think of one memorable costume Wang created for her, except Bolero and that was memorable for all the wrong reasons. I'll never forget the second Lyra costume, Desdemona, Salome, both Taj Majals, Dante's Prayer and Red Violin, though. She looked like a goddess in all those costumes. :swoon: Those were iconic costumes, imo. Who designed the second Lyra costume? Was that Mare Talbot? Is she still designing costumes? It may have been the most simple costume of all time but also the most lovely and just perfect for that program. :swoon:
  18. falling_dance

    falling_dance The Scarlet Unlettered

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    Marc Bouwer designed it. I agree that it was quite lovely.
  19. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    Some female skaters start wearing those longer dresses once they hit or approach 30, unless they're blessed with a naturally miniscule frame like Yamaguchi. I thought the white dress Kwan wore in Kim's show was lovely.

    http://asiapacificarts.usc.edu/files/images/201010/201010102264allthatskate.png


    I forgot to list Romanza as another terrific, standout pre-Wang costume. :swoon: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GSMThMVYd...I/padw68fpqpA/s1600/michelle kwan romanza.jpg
  20. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Of her Vera Wang dresses, I thought her 2002 Rachmaninoff and Nationals Tosca dresses were incredible. I think her Aranjuez and The Feeling Begins (2003 Nationals and Worlds) were quite interesting as well. The first one was reminiscent of the way Pedro Almodovar costumed the matadors in the film Talk to Her while the latter had a very interesting back, one of the more interesting looks I've seen on a skating costume.

    Sometimes skating costumes can either look practice generic (think of plain sleeveless dresses with straps and sparkles) or really busy generic (think of those European ones where it looks like a cat had to claw its way out of a laundry basket with layers upon layers that ruin one's line). Some of Kwan's Wang designs weren't the most interesting, but I think for the most part, it looked different from what other people were wearing and utilized really interesting cuts you don't see often in skating.

    OT, but I still think Shizuka Arakawa's 2006 Olympic LP dress is one of the best looks ever. She just looked regal and like a champion. From a fashion standpoint, I loved Fumie's 2005 LP pants ensemble and 2006 Olympic LP dress.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  21. sadya

    sadya Active Member

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    The Tosca certainly is lovely and I adore the 2003 sp dress as well. I like most costumes Kwan wore actually. There were so many nice ones, such as the one from her 'Winter' program and the first year she performed 'East of Eden' in ex as a World Champion for example.
  22. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    Yes to everything. The back of the Tosca dress was gorgeous, it had almost a sexy bondage style with the overlapping straps. Actually, a lot of Michelle's dresses in her final years of competition did - like the blue one with which she almost had a wardrobe malfunction.

    I agree but I surprisingly ended up LOVING the glittery purple dress she wore at 2001 worlds for song of the black swan. I mean it had nothing to do with the music but..she looked great lol

    Imo a lot of Michelle's Vera Wang dresses would've looked good as real life dresses off the ice. They were like couture. I liked some of Mare Talbot's dresses, but her style is the epitome of pageanty. Vera's dresses were just simple and elegant with beautiful cuts, colors and fabric. And when Vera made a thematic dress (like Spartacus) she didn't go over-the-top with the gladiator/Roman theme, but stayed subtle. Spartacus is one of the most regal dresses Michelle ever wore.
    The original Lyra dress Mare Talbot made was horrific and she was upset when Michelle replaced it with the beautiful blue Mark Bouwer dress for Nationals and Olympics..that was the end of their working relationship lol, Mare even bashed the Bouwer dress in an interview later on, saying that she didn't understand why Michelle was wearing such an unflattering dress
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  23. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Interesting ... some of you guys are really in the know on all of this costuming backstory. :)
  24. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Funny you mention pageantry with Mare Talbot because I always wondered what was her inspiration for the Rachmaninoff and original Lyra Angelica dresses...the swimsuit competition at the Miss America pageant?

    Here is an interesting Mare Talbot article before Nagano.

    http://articles.latimes.com/1998/feb/20/news/ls-20938

    I wonder if we ever saw the two dresses Talbot mentions because I don't remember seeing Kwan wearing those at all.

    I remember there was some grumbling that Sarah Hughes decided to re-stylize herself before SLC with Jeff Billings, essentially dumping Tania Bass, whose dresses she had been wearing all season. I do think that was a wise choice because there was something that made Sarah look pale and plain with Bass' designs and colors.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  25. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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  26. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    Oh wait..maybe the white one above isn't right since Mare calls it a "new" costume and this article is from 1998..whereas the Winter costume is from 97
  27. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Song of the Black Swan, what do you think of this one?

    mk16-1.jpg

    I always liked it myself, and always wondered if Kwan had intended to wear this instead the dress she ended up wearing for 2001 Worlds (since her luggage got lost).
  28. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    I liked it too! I was shocked because it's very unlike Michelle. It's almost Russian in style, like something Irina would wear lol
    but it certainly matches the program. She had like 5 different dresses that season for that one lp lol
  29. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    It was pink/fuscia (sp?); definitely not purple. I saw it in person. It was one of my favorite Kwan dresses. I did not always like her dresses, but liked this one very much.
  30. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    LOVE that costume for Black Swan.
  31. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    Love the dress but not on someone with Michelle's torso type. It reminds me of this costume which was also unflattering on her. http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/events/200405/worlds/action/kwan-sp2.jpg She probably weighed 50 pounds at the time but the design did the impossible and made her appear bulky in all the wrong places.

    I preferred her in slightly longer skirts, jmo obviously. :)
  32. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Very striking, but a bit distracting, IMO. I prefer the more modest costume she wore at worlds (and several other costumes in other competitions). It's easier to focus on the skating when the costume does not overpower the program.
  33. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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  34. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    Oddly, I hated the orange and blue ones. The Orange was from her 2004 FS, I think. I thought some of the dresses from earlier in her career were lovely, though. I especially liked the burgundy one with the old gold lace detail and a navy/purple one she wore for an exhibition program on the COI tour.

    I don't think negative feedback necessarily had anything to do with her choices. It is a recognized strategy in skating for skaters to do something quite different the season before the Olympics, either to get noticed or, for skaters already at the top, to show the skating world (incl judges) your range and versatility. That accomplished, skaters usually go back to what they do best and what is most comfortable for the Olympic season. One example that comes immediately to mind is Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze's City Lights (Chaplin) program in the 2000-2001 season.

    I think it is impossible to know whether Kwan would have done better in 2002 had she stayed with Carroll. The rock-solid and astonishingly reliable triples that marked her earlier career were already beginning to seem a little less reliable even before the split. She did not skate well at 2001 Skate America with the benefit of his preparation, but that could have been partly emotional (they split just a couple days before this event). Still, given what the other contenders did in Salt Lake City, I think a clean skate by Kwan would have given her gold in SLC. Even if Hughes won the free skate, Kwan needed only to be second to win. I don't know if Carroll would have gotten her to SLC any better prepared physically, but the security of a known environment and eliminating the endless questioning relating to her choice may have let her skate with a clearer mind.