Profile: Mao Asada & Kim Yu-Na

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Apr 27, 2013.

?

If Mao had been able to compete at the 2006 Olympics, where would she have placed?

Poll closed May 29, 2013.
  1. 1st (Gold)

    32 vote(s)
    50.8%
  2. 2nd (Silver)

    6 vote(s)
    9.5%
  3. 3rd (Bronze)

    5 vote(s)
    7.9%
  4. 4th

    5 vote(s)
    7.9%
  5. 5th

    7 vote(s)
    11.1%
  6. 6th

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  7. 7th

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Between 8th & 10th

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  9. Outside the top 10

    4 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,564
    This profile takes a look back at the competitive careers of Mao Asada and Kim Yu-Na up to the end of the 2009/10 season, and the rivalry between them during that period.

    Mao Asada was born on the 25th September 1990 in Nagoya, Aichi Prefecture, Japan. She began as a ballet dancer, but then switched to figure skating in 1995, following the lead of her elder sister, Mai, who was also a figure skater.

    Kim Yu-Na was born on the 5th September 1990 in Bucheon, Gyeonggi Province, South Korea. She started skating at the age of 7 and her then coach, Jong-Hyeon Ryu, persuaded her family to allow her to continue, predicting that she would ultimately become a world class figure skater.

    Early Days

    Kim Yu-Na

    Mao Asada

    2001/02

    Kim: SP = Can-Can, LP = The Carnival of the Animals

    Kim's first major competition was the 2002 South Korean junior nationals, which she won. She was then entered into the 2002 Triglav Trophy novices competition, which she also won (Danielle Kahle finishing 2nd).

    2002/03

    Mao: SP = Say Hey Kids, LP = Inca Dance and Andes
    Kim: SP = Can-Can, LP = Carmen


    Mao Asada

    Mao competed at Japanese Nationals in the novice event, the junior event, and in seniors. She finished 1st, 4th, and 7th respectively (Fumie Suguri winning the senior competition, with Shizuka Arakawa 3rd, and Miki Ando 5th).

    Japanese Nationals - SP & FS

    Kim Yu-Na

    In South Korean Nationals, Kim Yu-Na won the senior competition (becoming the youngest skater ever to win the Championships - aged 12)

    South Korean Nationals - FS

    2003/04

    Mao: SP = Orchestral Suite, LP = Waltz-Scherzo in C major Op. 34
    Kim: SP = Snowstorm, LP = Carmen


    Mao Asada

    Mao again competed at Japanese Nationals in the novice, junior, and senior events where she finished 1st, 4th, and 8th respectively.

    Japanese Nationals - SP, Japanese Nationals - FS

    Mao also finished 1st in the Mladost Trophy and Helena Pajović Cup novice events

    Kim Yu-Na

    Kim retained her South Korean senior nationals title

    South Korean Nationals - FS (copy SP from another competition)

    Kim also won the novice event at the Golden Bear of Zagreb competition

    2004/05

    Mao: SP = Over the Rainbow, LP = La Boutique Fantastique
    Kim: SP = Snowstrom, LP: Papa, Can You Hear Me? (from Yentl)


    Mao Asada

    Mao competed in the Junior Grand Prix for the first time. She won both the American and Ukrainian JGP events, which qualified her for the final. She then won the JGPF.

    JGPF - SP, JGPF - FS

    Mao then competed at Nationals, where she won the Junior competition and finished runner up in the senior competition to Miki Ando.

    Junior Japanese Nationals - FS, Senior Japanese Nationals - SP, Senior Japanese Nationals - FS

    Asada then went on to win the Junior World Championships, beating Kim into 2nd place

    Junior World Championships - SP, Junior World Championships - FS, Junior World Championships - Gala

    Kim Yu-Na

    Kim also made her JGP debut, winning her first event in Hungary and finishing second in China. This qualified her for the final, where she finished 2nd to Mao.

    JGPF - SP, JGPF - FS

    Kim then retained her South Korean Nationals title, before competing at the Junior World Championships where she again finished 2nd to Mao. In the FS, she landed a 3+3 combination in competition for the first time

    Junior World Championships - SP, Junior World Championships - FS, Junior World Championships - Exhibition

    2005/06

    Mao: SP = Carmen, LP = The Nutcracker
    Kim: SP = El Tango de Roxanne (from Moulin Rouge!) & Despertar, LP = Papa, Can You Hear Me? (from Yentl)


    Mao Asada

    Mao missed eligibility for the 2006 senior Worlds and Olympics by just 87 days. Hence, she could not compete in either.

    Nevertheless, Mao was eligible to compete in the senior Grand Prix. She finished 2nd to Irina Slutskaya in her first GP event, the Cup of China (beating Shizuka Arakawa, who finished 3rd)

    Cup of China - SP, Cup of China - FS

    Mao then won her second GP event, the Trophée Eric Bompard, defeating both Sasha Cohen (2nd) and Shizuka Arakawa (3rd) in the process

    TEB - SP, TEB - FS, Medal Ceremony, Exhibition

    Mao then went on to win the GPF, beating Irina Slutskaya (2nd) and Miki Ando (4th). Accordingly, during the GP, Mao had beaten all of the major contenders who would make the podium at the 2006 Olympics (i.e. Arakawa, Cohen, & Slutskaya)

    GPF - SP, GPF - FS, GPF - FS (2nd Copy), Profile, Interview

    For the 2nd consecutive year, Mao then finished 2nd at the senior Japanese Nationals (won by Fumie Suguri)

    Japanese Nationals - SP, Japanese Nationals - FS

    As Mao was unable to compete at senior Worlds or the Olympics, she competed at the Junior World Championships where she finished 2nd to Kim. Nevertheless, despite losing her world junior title, she had the consolation of becoming the first ever lady to land a 3A in a SP at the Championships.

    Junior World Championships - SP, Junior World Championships - FS

    Kim Yu-Na

    Kim remained in the JGP. She won her first JGP event of the season in Slovakia

    JGP Skate Slovakia - SP, JGP Skate Slovakia - FS

    Kim followed this up by winning her second JGP event in Bulgaria, which qualified her for the JGPF which she also won. In her FS in the JGPF, she landed 7 triples, including a 3F+3T combination.

    JGPF - SP, JGPF - FS

    Kim then retained her South Korean Nationals title

    South Korean Nationals - FS

    Kim then won the Junior World Championships, beating Mao into 2nd place.

    Junior World Championships - SP, Junior World Championships - FS, Junior World Championships - Exhibition

    2006/07

    Mao: SP = Nocturne No.2 Op. 9–2 in E flat major (Chopin), LP = Csárdás
    Kim: SP = El Tango de Roxanne (from Moulin Rouge!) & Despertar, LP = The Lark Ascending


    Mao Asada

    Asada started the new season with a new coach, Rafael Arutunian, and moved to train with him at Lake Arrowhead, California. This had the benefit of enabling her to escape the attentions of the Japanese media.

    Mao began the season by finishing 3rd at Skate America (won by Miki Ando)

    Skate America - SP, Skate America - FS, Skate America - Exhibition

    Asada then won the NHK Trophy (Fumie Suguri 2nd). In the process, she set a new ISU world record for the combined score of 199.52

    NHK Trophy - SP, NHK Trophy - FS

    Mao then finished 2nd in the GPF to Kim

    GPF - SP, GPF - FS

    Asada then became Japanese National Champion for the first time (Miki Ando 2nd)

    Japanese Nationals - SP, Japanese Nationals - FS

    Mao & Kim went into the World Championships as the 2 favourites. However, in a huge upset, Miki Ando took the title. Mao was in 5th place after the SP (in which she popped the 2nd part of her combination), but then won the LP with a new ISU world record for the FS of 133.13. This moved her up to 2nd place overall, losing out to Ando by just 0.64 points!

    World Championships - SP, World Championships - FS

    Kim Yu-Na

    Kim made her senior Grand Prix debut at Skate Canada, in which she finished 3rd (winner: Joannie Rochette)

    Skate Canada - SP, Skate Canada - FS, Skate Canada - Exhibition

    Kim then won her next GP event, the Trophée Eric Bompard (2nd: Miki Ando, 4th: Joannie Rochette)

    TEB - SP, TEB - FS, TEB - Exhibition

    Kim then won the GPF, beating Mao into 2nd place

    GPF - SP, GPF - FS, GPF - Exhibition

    At the world championships, Kim led after the SP, in which she set a new ISU world record for the SP of 71.95. However 2 falls in her FS mean't that she finished 4th in the LP, which dropped her to 3rd overall.

    World Championships - SP, World Championships - FS

    At the end of the season, Brian Orser took over as Kim's new coach and Kim moved to Toronto to train with him.

    2007/08

    Mao: SP = Fantasia for Violin and Orchestra, LP = Fantaisie-Impromptu
    Kim: SP = Die Fledermaus, LP = Miss Saigon


    Mao Asada

    Mao began the season by winning Skate Canada (2nd Yukari Nakano)

    Skate Canada - SP, Skate Canada - FS

    Mao also won her next GP event, the Trophée Eric Bompard (2nd Kimmie Meissner)

    TEB - SP, TEB - FS

    At the GPF, Mao finished 2nd to Kim. A disastrous SP had left her in 6th place. However, she won the FS, which moved her up to 2nd place overall.

    GPF - SP, GPF - FS

    Next, Mao retained her Japanese Nationals title (2nd: Miki Ando)

    Japanese Nationals - SP, Japanese Nationals - FS

    After Japanese Nationals, Mao left her coach, Rafael Arutunian, and performed for the remainder of the season without one. She also moved back to Japan to train at the Aurora Rink at Chukyo University. This coachless period began with her winning the 4CC title (2nd: Joannie Rochette)

    4CC - SP, 4CC - FS

    Mao finished the season by winning the World title (2nd: Kostner, 3rd: Kim)

    World Championships - SP, World Championships - FS

    Kim Yu-Na

    Kim's season started with a win at the Cup of China (2nd: Caroline Zhang)

    COC - SP, COC - FS

    Kim also won her second GP event of the season, the Cup of Russia (2nd: Yukari Nakano). In the LP, Kim set a new ISU world record for the FS of 133.70.

    COR - SP, COR - FS

    Kim won the GPF, beating Mao into 2nd place

    GPF - SP, GPF - FS

    Nevertheless, a hip injury and back problems prevented Kim from competing at Nationals and in the 4CC.

    Kim concluded her season by finishing 3rd at the World Championships. A fall on her 3Z in her SP had left her in 5th place. However, she won the FS, which moved her up to 3rd overall. Her poor showing was attributed to ongoing hip and back problems

    World Championships - SP, World Championships - FS

    2008/09

    Mao: SP = Claire de Lune, LP = Waltz from Masquerade Suite by Khachaturian
    Kim: SP = Danse Macabre, LP = Scheherazade


    Mao Asada

    Mao began the season with a new coach, Tatiana Tarasova. The decision to appoint Tarasova attracted considerable criticism. It was suggested that the programs Tarasova produced for Mao were inappropriate, in that they were too 'overpowering'. It was also pointed out that Tarasova was more of a dance coach, and did not have a strong enough technical background. There was also criticism for incorporating a 3A into Mao's SP, given that Mao's success rate in landing the 3A was perhaps too low to warrant such a move.

    Mao finished 2nd in her first GP event of the season, the Trophée Eric Bompard (winner: Joannie Rochette). In her SP, she singled out on the 2R in her 3F+2R combination, and doubled out on her 3Z. In her FS, she made multiple mistakes.

    TEB - SP, TEB - FS

    Nevertheless, Mao rebounded to win her 2nd GP event, the NHK Trophy (2nd: Akiko Suzuki)

    NHK - SP, NHK - FS

    Mao followed this up by winning the GPF (2nd: Kim). In doing so, she became the first lady to land two 3A's in the same program (in an ISU competition) in the FS (one in combination with a 2T).

    GPF - SP, GPF - FS

    Asada then retained her Japanese Nationals title (2nd: Fumie Suguri)

    Japanese Nationals - SP, Japanese Nationals - FS

    During the 2nd half of the season, Mao suffered a considerable dip in form. This began with a 3rd place finish at the 4CC (winner; Kim). In her SP, Mao under-rotated the 3R part of her 3F+3R combination and doubled out on her 3Z. This left her in 6th place entering the LP. She won the FS segment, however, and this moved her up into 3rd place

    4CC - SP, 4CC - FS

    At the World Championships, Mao finished out of the medals in 4th place (winner: Kim). Mao again doubled out on her 3Z and was in 3rd place after the SP. Mistakes in her LP meant that she finished 4th in the FS, which dropped her down to 4th overall.

    World Championships - SP, World Championships - FS

    Mao finished the season by competing in the World Team Trophy, in which she won the Ladies event (2nd: Joannie Rochette). In winning, she set new personal bests for the combined score (201.87) and for the SP (75.84)

    WTT - SP, WTT - FS

    Kim Yu-Na

    Kim began the season by winning Skate America (2nd: Yukari Nakano)

    Skate America - SP, Skate America - FS

    Kim followed this up by winning the Cup of China (2nd: Miki Ando)

    COC - SP, COC - FS

    At the GPF, however, Kim was beaten into 2nd place by Mao. Kim won the SP, but a 2nd placed finish in the LP (brought about by singling out on a 3Z and a fall on a 3S) mean't that she dropped down to 2nd place overall

    GPF - SP, GPF - FS

    Kim's next competed at the 4CC, which she won (2nd: Joannie Rochette, 3rd: Mao). In the SP, she set a new ISU world record for the SP of 72.24.

    4CC - SP, 4CC - FS

    Kim concluded the season by winning the World title for the first time (2nd: Joannie Rochette, 3rd: Miki Ando, 4th: Mao). In the SP, she set a new ISU world record for the SP of 76.12. She also went on to set a new ISU world record for the combined total, of 207.71. In doing so, she became the first lady to break the 200 barrier for the combined score.

    World Championships - SP, World Championships - FS

    2009/10

    Mao: SP = Waltz from Masquerade Suite, LP = Bells of Moscow
    Kim: SP = James Bond Medley, LP = Concerto in F by George Gershwin


    Mao Asada

    Mao began the Olympic season by finishing 2nd to Kim at the Trophée Eric Bompard

    TEB - SP, TEB - FS

    Next, Mao performed disastrously at the Rostelecom Cup, finishing 5th (winner: Miki Ando). Making multiple mistakes, she finished 6th in the SP and 5th in the LP. As a result of this, Mao failed to qualify for the GPF

    Rostelecom Cup - SP, Rostelecom Cup - FS

    Tarasova began to have health problems at this point in the season, and Mao was effectively coached for most of the rest of the season by Tarasova’s assistant, Jeanetta Folle, in Nagoya. Nevertheless, Mao retained her Japanese Nationals title (2nd: Akiko Suzuki)

    Japanese Nationals - SP, Japanese Nationals - FS

    Mao's next competition was the 4CC, which she won (2nd: Akiko Suzuki)

    4CC - SP, 4CC - FS

    Mao then finished a distant 2nd at the Olympics to Kim, finishing 2nd in both the SP and the LP. Nevertheless, she had the consolation of being the first lady to land three 3A's in an ISU competition (one in the SP, and two in the LP). She also set a new PB for the combined score, of 205.50.

    Olympics - SP, Olympics - FS

    Nevertheless, Mao finished the season on a high by regaining the World title (2nd: Kim)

    World Championships - SP, World Championships - FS

    Kim Yu-Na

    Kim began the season by beating Mao at the Trophée Eric Bompard. In doing so, she set new ISU world records for the FS of 133.95 and for the combined score of 210.03.

    TEB - SP, TEB - FS

    Kim also won her 2nd GP event, Skate America (2nd: Rachael Flatt). In doing so, she set a new ISU world record for the SP of 76.28.

    Skate America - SP, Skate America - FS

    Next, Kim won the GPF (2nd: Miki Ando)

    GPF - SP, GPF - FS

    Kim followed this up by winning the Olympic title. In winning, Kim set new world records for the SP (78.50), the LP (150.06), and the total overall score (228.56).

    Olympics - SP, Olympics - FS

    Kim concluded her season by finishing 2nd to Mao at the World Championships.

    World Championships - SP, World Championships - FS

    At the end of the 2013/14 season, I shall compile part 2 to this piece covering the 2010-14 quad.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,564
  3. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    256
    2nd~4th.

    Sasha‘s Olympics SP >> Mao‘s 0506GPF SP.
    Arakawa‘s Olympics LP >> Mao‘s 0506GPF LP. (Besides maturity, Arakawa‘s skating skills are much better than Mao‘s. This is seen in their spirals too.)
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  4. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,564
  5. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    I think Asada would have at least won silver. That would have been good, and Slutskaya wouldn't have had to throw her bronze in the trash like she did.
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  6. HVS

    HVS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    171
    I seriously don't understand why people think Mao could win Olympic 2006??? If Mao could then well, Yuna could, why not :rolleyes:

    But of course, I don't think either of them could win Olympic 2006 ;)
  7. torren

    torren New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    132
    Mao win easily. kim would be 7~10
  8. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    Kim would have made too many mistakes, and no one liked her then. She only won 2006 Jr Worlds because Mao had a bad attitiude and wasted her prep time practicing the quadruple loop. Having already won 2005 Junior Worlds and the Sr Grand Prix Frinal, Mao decided a 4L would be her new focus for the rest of the year. It was not a smart plan, and it showed in her dismal performance at Jr Worlds.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  9. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,564
    Plus Kim had no experience in competing in senior level events, unlike Mao who had competed in the senior grand prix that season and won the final. In fact, during that season, Mao had beaten all of the main contenders for the Olympic title (including the 3 who won medals). As the juniors entering seniors for the first time over the last few years have discovered, the transition to seniors is a daunting and difficult one to make.
  10. torren

    torren New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    132
    And also Kim could not get PCS same as Mao.
    her programs were so juniorish, choreography and costumes were poorish.

    Mao already had a famous coach, and the famous choreographer.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  11. miki88

    miki88 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    806
    I think based on her performances in the pre-Olympic season, she had a chance for a medal at least, possibly gold if the top contenders made mistakes which they did. At that point in their careers, Mao had more momentum on her side than Yuna. As for her performances at junior worlds that year, she was probably much less motivated to compete there after her considerably successful run in her first senior season.
  12. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,349
    If we base it on how the competition was actually skated then Mao probably would have won gold. She had been very consistent and strong that season and regularly defeated Slutskaya, Arakawa, and Cohen when they made any mistakes, and all made mistakes at the Games. Then again who knows, Shizuka especialy might have brought out more content had Mao been there. Mao also might have cracked under the presure of her first time at such a big event, it is no sure means she delivers either.

    Kim would not have been on the podium IMO, even with all the mistakes of Cohen and Slutskaya. Her SP would have left her way behind, 6 months later at Skate Canada as a much more mature skater she did an outstanding short with one of the best triple-triples ever, great jumps and spins, and striking choreography and footwork, and still barely scored over 60, and got much lower PCS than Fumie Suguri. It would have taken her a whole year atleast to establish herself as a big enough name with enough rep points, especialy in a veteran laden field. Maybe in the LP she could have been top 3 with how the event was skated, but she would have been too far behind after the SP to medal.
  13. torren

    torren New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    132
    In that time, Kim had not same artistry with Mao or Fumie IMO.
    she didn't same level with Slutskaya or Mao technically.

    She was just one of the top skaters.
  14. lakewood

    lakewood New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    Messages:
    515
    YuNa was nearly unknown to the sakting world, but she certainly had better artistry than Mao at 2006 Jr. Worlds. On the other hand, Mao was simply a jumping bean.
  15. torren

    torren New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    132
    I have said about when Kim compete in 2006 Skate Canada.

    In skate canada which kim's first senior debut Grand prix, Yuna's sp -http://youtu.be/JkyqiJhhZOY fs-http://youtu.be/ICj9l2nbqQ4
    Mao's first Grand prix in the same season, Mao's sp - http://youtu.be/ZmyUwtmch9w fs-http://youtu.be/tP5oCLcigKo
    In my opinion, Mao already had pure artistry. She skated with properly understand the music and her skating was well suited to the music.

    kim used her arms a lot, but spin position was not good and spiral was unstabled, She did not skating like Senior yet.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  16. lakewood

    lakewood New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    Messages:
    515
    Haha, no I disagree. YuNa already showed splendid artistry as most vividly demonstrated in her 2007 Worlds. Both her Tango and Lark were just beautiful.
  17. karlon

    karlon New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    163
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  18. johnny158

    johnny158 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    28
    You made a point. Asada is as artistic as Suguri. :rofl::rofl:
    In 2013 worlds, BBC commantator is calling her ''Jumping Queen'', while she
    is describing Yuna as "breathtaking artistry", ''one of the all-time greats''
    What is all this? Since when her uber-fans started promoting her Artist?

    In 2006 Skate Canada , Yuna already received standing ovation from savvy Canadian audiences in her senior debut. Susie Wynne was commentating that she will fill the void of the great Michelle Kwan after her shorts.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  19. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    459
    I think we are all assuming that if Mao skated clean against the performances at olympics yes she would have won. But if all were to have skated clean i would say she would have placed 3rd behind shizuka and irina. Sasha would have been lower because of her inability to do 3-3 at the time.
  20. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,392
    Didn't Sasha had a 3/3 sequence ? Something as 3T half loop 3Sal ?
  21. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    459
    Yes but a sequence like that scores far less. Base value for the seq is only 7.5 whereas a 3-3 combo, even a 3T3T combo is base value of 8.9.

    So since Irina had a planned 3Lz+3Lo planned in short and a 3S+3Lo in the fp. While Shizuka has a planned 3S+3T in fp. And Mao had 3A. I think sasha would easily get beat by her competitors when she only had a 3T+3S+seq
  22. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,270
    Here is how both skated at the junior worlds that year. No way Mao would have won the olympics with the preformance she put out at Junior worlds, and there's no reason to think she'd have been able to pull out a better performance at the hypothetical Olympics either.
  23. miki88

    miki88 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    806
    ?? She was performing way better all season prior to Junior worlds. And she did change her layout for that worlds, which I agree she would probably not have if she were allowed to compete at the Olympics that year.
    TheIronLady and (deleted member) like this.
  24. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,270
    Given that junior worlds was the next big international she did that year and timing wise it was 2-3 weeks after the olympic competition I don't understand why people think she would have skated differently at the Olympics to how she skated at junior worlds. I just don't buy that at a comptition like the Olympics which has even more pressure than just worlds let alone just junior worlds people think she would have skaterd clean and won the entire thing. Who in the history of ever has rocked up at an Olympics as their first senior championships and won it? There's just no way it would have happened.
    os168 and (deleted member) like this.
  25. miki88

    miki88 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    806
    Well, the thing is I don't think Mao felt that much pressure about junior Worlds that year or much motivation to compete there after her unexpected great run on the senior circuit that season. I think it is burnout that often happens to competitors after an important event in their careers, which the 2005 Grand Prix Final was to Mao at that point. I'm not saying that she would definitely win if she were allowed to go to the Olympics but I think if she were allowed to go, she would feel much more motivated to peform well. She may crumble to greater pressure but then there is also the possibility that she could do well.
  26. bek

    bek Guest

    In terms of Kim, both Elene and Meissner were placed in the top group after the short, Kim had a history of beating those skaters already. We also don't know would Yu-na have skated in the GP if she was eligible or the Olympics.... Would her programs have been a bit more mature. Her short program (The same one) won Worlds Short the next year.

    Its really hard to know, I think Kim COULD have medaled....And I do think Kim was a bit known there was talk that it would be unfair to make an exception for Mao if Kim couldn't participate...
  27. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,349
    Yeah but lets face it, neither of those skaters were in any contention whatsoever for a medal (even if by some huge miracle Meissner had duplicated her lightning from a bottle Worlds LP, and still gotten credit for the rotations of her toe axel triple-triples under totally different circumstances, I see it coming in at 120 max there and still keeping her off the podium overall, even in the crappy event it turned out to be). I dont think anyone doubts Kim would have been in the final flight, but winning a medal is a whole other thing entirely.
  28. miki88

    miki88 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    806
    She was a much improved skater overall by 2007 Worlds and she also headed into that competition as the Grand Prix Final champion.
  29. Andofanatic

    Andofanatic Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    90
    How can anyone no. She had never been in a competition that big. Nobody knows how she would handle the pressure and it is almost stupid to speculate.
  30. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,564
  31. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,564
  32. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    390
    Yu-Na was not juniorish by any measure in 2006 JWC when she won the gold. It’s not just me who saw it that way.

    I remember reading a Japanese sports journalist’s report at the scene which said, as Kim stepped on the ice, the atmosphere (the air) in the rink changed, that there was a performer’s presence in her skating which the Japanese oppositions lacked, and that even her jumps and spins took on the essence of her programs.

    I also remember Nancy Kerrigan commentating on the event during a delayed broadcast that Kim showed maturity beyond her age as her skating reflected the ebb and flow of the program music.

    Gosh, I don’t take pleasure in posting about these old things. Please spare me and yourselves. Kim was a fundamentally better jumper AND performer in that competition (2006 JWC), same as today. Nothing has changed really, substantially, except that the rotation and edge calls have been implemented since then. Different technical layouts for Asada in that event? Same for Kim, as the ISU rules at the time didn’t allow 3-3s in ladies’ SP in JWC. And who has better 3-3 of them all?

    I don’t see any point in you guys’ pushing this poll, since I think all of Slutskaya, Arakawa, Cohen, Kostner, and even Kim (if she had been there) would have been great in technique and presentation, had they skated all clean. All Asada had at the time were marginal (pre and/or under rotated) 3a and some then-light quality in her stroking with some junior-looking programs. Am I wrong? She didn’t have true lutz, salchow, or even an ina bauer in her field moves, which is still to be seen in her skating, in competition or shows. I wouldn’t say her skating/jumps has deteriorated since then, but rather has remained the same. Am I wrong?
  33. Dyu

    Dyu New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12
    How funny this poll is. You never know who will win at the Olympics.
  34. Amy03

    Amy03 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2010
    Messages:
    251
    yes, you are wrong, Mao actually included 2 lutzes at that time in her programs, she also had the salcow, and as a matter of fact she even practiced a quad salcow, she had several 3-3 and a gourges 3A, as for other field moves she had plenty of them, but one that i must be mention is her gourges layback!
  35. Amy03

    Amy03 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2010
    Messages:
    251
    yes, you are wrong, Mao actually included 2 lutzes at that time in her programs, she also had the salcow, and as a matter of fact she even practiced a quad salcow, she had several 3-3 and a gourges 3A, as for other field moves she had plenty of them, but one that i must be mention is her gourges layback!
  36. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    390
    Asada WASN’T EVEN TRYING taking off on her lutz on the correct edge at the time. I didn’t blame her, since the edge calls weren’t implemented back then, so it didn't matter anyway, sort of. Salchows? She didn’t have one then, and she still doesn’t have a correct position and takeoff on her salchows still now. I would call that a sal-loop, since it looks like she has invented a new jump.

    As for laybacks, Kim has an excellent one, fast, centered, with her back facing deep downwards. You don’t see many ladies going that far back, unlike somebody who tilt the back facing sideway. Kim’s is a fundamentally sound and true layback. I understand some nitpicking on her foot position, but she has vastly improved on that over the recent years.

    I see you guys want to underrate Kim as a spinner. The way I see it, she is an EXCELLENT spinner, with ample ability in handling difficult positions with decent speed and centering, and very clean, simple and athletic entering moves. And she very well incorporates the COP-demanding spins into her programs, reflecting the themes of each program. Cases in point: her trademark inverted camel into a donut in The Lark Ascending, all of her spins in Miss Saigon which effectively brought out the fine nuances in ambience of changing phases in that program. And all her spins in the impeccable Les Misrables, to name a few. The way she handles and somehow incorporates these difficult COP requirements is just wonderful. It was observed in the same vein by the Japanese skating reporter who was present at the 2006 JWC. He said back then, Kim’s spins were not just to meet COP level requirements, but also took discreet and profound forms within the programs reflecting the themes of the music. I would say he had keen eyes even back then.

    I admire your blind love for Asada, but let’s be objective.
  37. Amy03

    Amy03 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2010
    Messages:
    251
    LOL, THIS for me just confirmed that you have not watched a single performance of Mao from junior years nor have you seen the protocols, because if you had done that, you would have seen that she had all kind of jumps in her arsenal and GOT THEM ALL RATIFIED, the protocols don't lie, every performance is filmed and can be replayed.

    As for you funny comment about Mao's salcow and loop being new invented jumps, well these jumps have been there for ages, and Mao's loop and sal are some of the best you will find, you really need to try harder because it's these kind of comment that expose your blindness and denial of reality.

    now as to your comments to Kim's layback being flexible and so on.... it's just rubbish, and I don't want to waste my energy in explaining everything wrong with her spins, Kim herself as often admitted to having a very inflexible back, and it has only gotten worse with time.
    why do you think she long ago stopped doing the biellman spin and never does Y-spin, it's because she isn't flexible, her inflexibility was apparent not only in her spins but even in her spirals!
  38. chanunderrated

    chanunderrated Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2013
    Messages:
    128
    but they didnt. So what is your point. From what I see this isnt one of those if everyone had skated cleanly fantasy polls. It is based on what actually happened, and flat out would Asada have won. I dont think Mao would have won had Slutskaya or Arakawa knocked it out of the park with 3-3s and all, but based on the standard of skating at the Olympics as it was, Mao would have probably won with most of her performances that season, or atleast won silver. Why wouldnt many assume she would replicate her performances from most of the season, when she proved she could handle pressure.
  39. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,187
    How about Amy03 naming two or three great qualities in Yuna's skating for a change and lowtherlore doing the same thing for Mao's skating?;)
  40. os168

    os168 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    869
    I suspect they'd rather have a root canal. How about just start with just 1.....baby steps :p

    Could have should have would have... oh why bother compete anymore. If we go by this theory, then no one should be allowed to criticize Patrick's win, at least he competed and won and his skating skills is truly out of this world 'in theory'.