Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by ilovepaydays, Apr 2, 2013.
You did read the NYTimes article that was posted earlier, no?
Both stories made me , but especially the second one. Most men simply do not want a wife who is more intelligent and more capable than they are. Even if there are no women to go around.
Plus my sister and I are not pale, and I don't have double eyelids. I'd probably have to make do with a migrant worker, and then I'd have no luck because I'd make more money than him.
I didn't say you'd get married.
But if we're going to be all humorless and serious about it, how many women want to marry a man who is less intelligent and capable? Same coin, different sides.
Tons of women marry men who are less intelligent and capable. (Mrs. Robert Caro comes to mind, although the gap there isn't great.) Traditionally, they had to hide that they were and often still do.
I didn't ask how many did it; I asked how many want to.
But I am glad to know that that tons of women do so; that means that tons of men marry women who are smarter and more capable, rather putting paid to the whole idea that men don't like such things. You can hide a lot of things from the world, but it's pretty hard to hide brains and capability from a spouse.
My Kenmore vacuum is very capable, best sucker upper I ever had.
I don't think any Chinese man wants to touch my non-double-eyelided body with a 10-ft pole.
No idea about the second point, but it doesn't seem like there's a huge cultural stigma toward it. Even my parents didn't bat an eyelid when I told them Alf quit his job and was freelancing.
They were probably happy someone took their too-smart daughter off the market.
I know plenty of Chinese women who are married who don't have double eyelids...
Married to Chinese men?
I kid, I'm sure there are. But having a double-eyelid is usually the trait that is sought out, not the other way around. Even in the US among my ABC social group, there are multiple women who have had the double eyelid surgery done....
They do on occasion. I know two women like that, one went to Harvard and one to Princeton. Not sure how common this is.
Word. I actually AM a bit rah-rah about my (rather prestigious in its own way) undergraduate university, as we have a rather strong identity as a student body, if not about my grad school (which despite having half the same name is completely opposite) but just because someone is not shouting their head off about their school (let alone their IVY! LEAGUE! SCHOOL!) does not mean they don't care about it. My mother went to UofM through dental school back when that was a major deal for a woman (I think she was one of only two women in her dental school course) and I don't think she's been in Ann Arbor in years, she doesn't follow the sports teams, and she doesn't go around constantly reminding people where she went to university.
I don't know that school rep being equal is important in a relationship, but I think educational or at least intellectual (not necessarily reflected in educational record) compatibility is important.
Most of the women I know wanted to marry their spouse, most of the women I know are more intelligent (in most ways) than their husbands, and some are more capable than their husbands. So while it might not be on anyone's theoretical paper list of what they want, it doesn't seem to matter in terms of the trade-offs, attractions, and emotions.
Yes, I understand that my attitude may seem sad to you, but that is my reality. My childhood circumstances left me with the belief that I was unworthy of love and my self esteem has been pretty much zero for most of my life. It is only in the last couple of years that I have been able to successfully battle through my depression and sense of worthlessness and am actually developing a bit of self confidence. The bitterness and anger of my past will always be with me, but I am finally stronger than the pain.
I am happy for you that you have self confidence and a sense of value; perhaps some day I will too.
Is that what you got from the second story? Cause what I got was most men don't want to marry a control freak asshat who wants to make sure everyone knows who's got the power in the relationship any more than most women would (er...wouldn't?).
snoopysnake, that is lovely story and I am so happy that you found your someone special. I hope you have many wonderful years together.
And Southpaw, you keep on lovin' your Kenmore! Mine is a cute little lime green canister, it's the only brand of vacuum I will ever buy! Loyalty and commitment; its the only way to be!
What I got is that this guy didn't want someone who didn't at least make him think he was in charge. Being married to someone who puts his/her cards on the table isn't always Rebecca telling Max de Winter what's what: it's the way most arranged marriages are done, although usually the intermediaries do the negotiating.
So by virtue of where they went to school, they are smarter and more capable than their spouses? Or are you just saying that they went to more prestigious schools and thus "married down"?
Smarter in what way? Capable in what way? How do you assess such things?
Most of the married couples I know have a balance between smarts and abilities, where each partner has strengths and weaknesses. I can think of only one couple where there is an overt and noticeable imbalance. I can think of several couples where it appears that one is a lot smarter or capable than the other, but that's because one is always more extraverted and out there than the other. Underneath it all, they're pretty much even, just different.
I always seem to know very different people than most of the posters on this board.
The Chinese culture can be very...direct. In other more traditional matters, communication can be very obtuse, but most of my relatives have no qualms about telling someone to their face that they've gained weight. (Except when you're Caucasian. Then they talk about it behind your back. )
I did have an aunt who was disappointed I didn't marry a rich doctor at the research hospital I've been working at for 6 years. So, yes, in some cultures, it certainly isn't unusual to ask for exactly what you're looking for. Even if it has nothing to do with personality or compatibility.
What I mean is, on paper. Of course it is absolutely normal for partners to complement each other's strengths and weaknesses, and for career successes to switch between the two partners. Just because one partner graduated from an Ivy League doesn't mean they're geniuses about everything, but on paper, that's how it looks to society. And for a lot of people, that's still very important.
I know very few couples where the woman has more degrees than the male partner. (And in all cases, the man still makes more money. ) The happy relationships in that aspect, are ones which are vastly untraditional in terms of power structure. There's bound to be animosity when the wife wants to go to medical school, but the husband wants her to stay home and take care of the kids and clean the house...
Um, yes? All of my coworkers that I work directly with are married, and none of them have double eyelids...
Smarter in almost every way I can see, but not always that much smarter.
I can only judge based on my own hierarchy: I think the most important capabilities are 1. Meeting the obligations a person agrees to, unless circumstances, like health, cause them not to be able to 2. Balancing excellence at the key things they do without having it take over their lives 3. Being independent 4. Following through 5. Setting expectations and communicating well 6. Dealing reasonably well under pressure and changing circumstances.
Almost all of my female friends are more capable in these ways than their husbands, and I don't include the passive-aggressive ways of getting out of housework and other things they feign incompetence at. Some are better at holding jobs, and others are better at their work than their husbands. I'm trying to think of one who is less flexible and adept at change than her husband, and I can't. The last six-seven years of the economy have shown this in many, many ways.
It's not as if I think my friends are 100% more capable and smarter in every way: I think they are more capable and smarter in ways that matter to me, and, of course, I'm generally not privy to their husbands' point of view. I'm trying to think of a husband that I don't like, and I can't think of one, and some are both friends of mine, usually independently. I've pushed back when I think they're full of it and aren't giving credit to their husbands/partners. They get lots of other things from their spouse.
Some have had massive frustrations, and one is too cheap to ever divorce her husband, although she feels he played a bait and switch -- I don't think consciously -- but they've been a more consistently happy lot than I've been, in general. They mostly like being married, and I think the ones who occasionally rue that they didn't pick/weren't picked by the citius/altius/fortius guys wouldn't have been happy on a day-to-day basis with them.
Of course not. The schools are just icing on the cake. These women are extraordinary. In one case, the Ivy League school recruited her, not the other way around. There is no balance of smarts and abilities, especially in one of the cases. The disparity is glaring. And it ended in a divorce which surprised no one.
In the other case, there are some other qualities that make up for the difference in educational and intellectual level, at least for the woman involved, or so it seems.
You are going to have to trust me (or not) but I am not giving out any more details as this forum is publicly available.
And therein lies the rub. Someone else could, looking at the same situation from a different angle, come to completely different conclusions.
In the end, it only matters how the married couple perceives their differences.
I was simply asking you why you defined both women by where they went to school, not asking you to prove anything.
If I had a shelf-life, I love being expired at this point. Expiration is where life begins!
The chick who sat next to me in 11th grade English spent the entire year asking me for answers about Silas Marner and Julius Caesar and whatever else we had to read in junior year. Meanwhile, I was practically napping at my desk and counting down the days to graduation so I could finally get out of that teenage hellhole and I was like what the hell, this chick is supposed to be so damn smart why does she keep asking me for the answers? She ended up going to Princeton. She was amiable enough but she never struck me as particularly remarkable, she just struck me as a chick who knew how to take a test and how to give the answers that teachers wanted to hear. I, on the other hand, wasn't always so good with that teacher pleasing thing.
Of course. But when friends explicitly list the trade-offs they make -- perhaps unreliable witness testimony -- intelligence and capability aren't things they often list on the pro side in emphatic terms, except for the two who chose exceptional fathers who've been the kids' primary caretakers. (For one this was intended; for another, it happened by circumstance.) "Smart enough" is a common description, or, as one of my male friends says when he tells me has a new girlfriend and I ask what she's like and what she looks like, he'll answer, "She's as cute as anyone needs to be." It's like a minimum level has been met, but there's a lot that wasn't on all of their lists to begin with, especially the ones who partnered young and are still with the same guys 35+ years later. They found mensches, or, in the case of one, did what she described to me as what her mother did: she found a guy who wasn't as smart, capable, or good-looking, but who adored her and thought he had won the lottery when she agreed to marry him. (They've been together for over 50 years.)
I"ve never been attracted to men who were less smart or capable than I was.
The few real "prospects" I met had already been discovered by women who were searching for the same thing.
At my advanced age, I haven't given up hope; but, as the years pass. finding such a person seems less likely.
I agree with most of what you say. Two extreme career driven person, when do they have time for their relationships?
However, I think it's more important to find a person that compliments you emotionally and spirtually.
Imo opinion, it's better to not be married, live your life than it is to settle and marry. The author of the article does not mention the many educational, career women who "settle" in relationships that don't make them happy. For that matter, the number of women who settle for relationships who don't make them happy because they feel then "need" or "should" be in a relationship. How about we see research about that.
I swear it seems that some women culturally are right out of 1850.
I think in 1850 the odds of finding a mutually fulfilling relationship were much better as people had a lot fewer unrealistic expectations or competing 'life goals.'
And settling is never good because settling breeds resentment. Better to be single than be someone you eventually hate for not being what you wanted, just what was available.