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Pope Francis

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by rjblue, Sep 27, 2013.

  1. rjblue

    rjblue Re-registered User

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  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Francis just excommunicated a priest who supported female priesthood and the LGBT community.

    So much for him 'exceeding even our optimistic hopes.'

    Don't get fooled!
     
  3. rjblue

    rjblue Re-registered User

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    I didn't expect this papacy to move in any kind of inclusive direction after how horridly dogmatic John Paul II and Benedict were. Pope Francis is actually taking small steps.

    I looked it up. The priest who was excommunicated resigned during Pope Benedict's era, and then continued to act as a priest, and his heresy included throwing away consecrated hosts. It sounds like Pope Francis just rubber stamped something that had been an issue for a while.
     
  4. Cupid

    Cupid Well-Known Member

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    A protestant man said in response to my stating that the Pope wanted to be more accepting of birth control and the gay lifestyle, by saying "Oh, he's probably hoping people would give more money ..."
     
  5. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    The priest also apparently "ordained" women. Even if the church were to decide that women could be ordained next week, a priest cannot ordain anyone. He would have been in trouble for ordaining men as well. There was also something about a consecrated host being fed to a dog, although it sounds like no one was sure if it had been consecrated or not. Basically, a bunch of issues beyond the ones in the headlines.
     
  6. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

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    To warrant actively getting excommunicated, you have to make a COLOSSAL pest of yourself. I don't think speaking out for women priests is generally enough. (Now, latent excommunication, ie excommunicating yourself via action, is easy.)
     
  7. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Bad on me, I should have looked up that issue in more detail.

    But yeah being more liberal than JPII and Benedict isn't hard. :D
     
  8. kylet3

    kylet3 Well-Known Member

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    So much for practice what you preach eh? :rolleyes:
     
  9. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    This reminds of The Onion in their American Voices feature.One woman's reaction to the Pope having a message of compassion rather than condemnation responded with, “So I can’t hate gays but I also can’t be gay? What’s left?”

    Sometimes, satire is bang-on.
     
  10. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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  11. rjblue

    rjblue Re-registered User

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    Yes, that is the same link that I posted when I started this thread. The actual actions, and steps he is taking to effect real change in the church, are what is raising my hopes.
     
  12. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    :slinkaway

    Your link never opened for me no matter what I did...which is the fault of my ancient computer and outdated browser. So I had no idea it was the same story. Sorry.
     
    rjblue and (deleted member) like this.
  13. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Like many others, I hope that his positive statements and persona, lead to substantive action.
     
  14. Latte

    Latte Well-Known Member

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    I am not even Catholic, but I just love that man. I hope he doesn't let me down. He seems a breath of fresh air in the Church.
     
    sk8pics and (deleted member) like this.
  15. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    The Pope is a leader whose attitudes and positions influence many faiths.
    I hope that Francis will be able to lead the Church forward; in light of recent knowledge/scholarship on social and spiritual issues that affect all of us.
     
  16. sailornyanko

    sailornyanko New Member

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    I like him, he will do good forcing bling priests to stop the pork barrel spending which will probably be the mark of his papacy. He seems to wish to tone down the tone of you will go to hell if you use birth control, they know catholicism is dying in Latin American and Europe.

    However catholic dogma won't budge much, last week they held an official conference that divorced catholics cannot have comulgation unless they pay them $ for a religious annulment.
     
  17. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    Uh...what?

    The pope has called an Extraordinary Synod to take place next year to discuss marriage and family issues. It is expected that the issue of divorce and remarriage will be a key topic, but no decisions have been made.
     
  18. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Pope Replaces Conservative U.S. Cardinal on Influential Vatican Committee

    :duh:

    Really, now! What on Earth did the Cardinal think he was doing saying something like that in an interview? Oh, well, I guess that he'll have lots of time to talk about "that" now that he has fewer job responsibilities. :shuffle:
     
  19. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

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    :lol: I'm currently reading "On Heaven and Earth," a book that is a conversation between Pope Francis (before he was Pope) and a rabbi friend of his. It's very clear that he is absolutely opposed to both abortion and gay marriage. (He's also a traditionalist when it comes to discussing women being priests and priests being celibate - though it appears that he's willing to let some of these priests slip up a bit as long as there are no children involved -- as sexual victims or as products of the broken vows.) But it is also clear that he thinks people are generally too judgmental and dogmatic. His concern for the poor (especially the exploited working poor) is also apparent, though I have yet to learn of his Marxism. ;)

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/15/pope-francis-marxist-ideology-wrong/

    I think it's good that he's be able to get people to think and talk about the poor.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/09/pope-francis-poor-rome_n_4412540.html

    After all Jesus didn't talk about homosexuality or abortion, but did talk about the poor and the sick, and he didn't even charge for his healing services. ;)
     
  20. Latte

    Latte Well-Known Member

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    I love that man. And I am afraid that he will be taken out like Pope John Paul 1. (yeah, I said it, JMO)
    The establishment doesn't like changes or original thoughts.
     
  21. AliasJohnDoe

    AliasJohnDoe Headcase Addict

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    I'm an atheist and I absolutely love Pope Francis. :saint:
     
  22. PrincessLeppard

    PrincessLeppard Holding Alex Johnson's Pineapple

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    I'm not Catholic, but sometimes on my way home from school I listen to a talk show on Catholic radio. I find it fascinating to listen to people who are so different from me, I guess. Anyway, the host was talking about Francis (and the host is huge admirer), but was puzzled by the fact that 31% of Catholics who identify as "strongly conservative" politically disapproved of Pope Francis.

    I was puzzled that he was puzzled. :)
     
  23. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    *BUMP* :)

    Pope Francis tells priests to pardon women who have abortions

    As I believe I have said in another thread here, if Pope Benedict XVI were dead, he would be rolling in his grave.

    I do wonder how this will play out after the jubilee year ends.

    :watch:
     
  24. Cachoo

    Cachoo Well-Known Member

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    I like him more and more every day.
     
  25. Jimena

    Jimena Well-Known Member

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    I'm not religious, but I'm a big fan of this Pope. I read this article on National Geographic http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2015/08/vatican/draper-text about him and there's a part in it where it talks about how the Pope opposed legalization of gay marriage in Argentina and one of his former students wrote to him. Well, that former student is a good friend who lives in Washington DC and it filled me with joy and a feeling of really understanding this Pope. I mean, I know his student well, I know his politics, I know his worldview. This is a flamboyant 60 something gay caterer/artist from Argentina. To understand that my friend was so shaped by having Bergoglio as a teacher, left me kind of breathless. It moved me deeply that someone so far removed from my friends' reality could have such an impact on him for so many years. This Pope just seems to be an extraordinary man.

    What's fascinating to me is that he got elected as Pope at all. Maybe I'm completely mistaken, but I don't think the Vatican really understood what they were getting.
     
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  26. sk8pics

    sk8pics Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing new in what Francis is saying. Some dioceses had already allowed priests to do this; others reserved that for the bishop. (That was news to me, but I hadn't really thought about it.) Pope Francis is just formalizing what was already allowed in some places. And I think that's a good thing, as people may be more likely to approach a local priest rather than a bishop.
     
  27. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    He's requiring it, for a year, even in places where it wasn't allowed. That's big news. It shouldn't be, given that the sacrament of penance is supposed to be available to all Catholics who are truly penitent, but priests and dioceses were withholding the sacrament nevertheless.
     
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  28. sk8pics

    sk8pics Well-Known Member

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    No, he is requiring that priests be able to give absolution rather than only bishops. He is not requiring them to give it.
     
  29. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Of course, there is judgement call on the priests part of what it means to repent, but this sounds like the Pope is saying it has to be granted.

    “The forgiveness of God cannot be denied to one who has repented,”
     
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  30. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

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    He was a Jesuit from Latin America who had spoken and written about his beliefs. I think that the Papal enclave had a good idea about who they were selecting. When Francis first became Pope, I read a book of his that essentially is a conversation between him (before he was Pope) and a rabbi friend of his. Having read the book, the only things he has said as Pope that surprised me are some of the comments about gay people. He came across as more homophobic in the book. His concern for the poor, his contempt for the greedy rich people, his concern for the health of the planet, and his focus on forgiveness and inclusion of sinners is not surprising. And he hasn't really changed church doctrine very much. He has changed the perception of the church.
     
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