Pope Benedict XVI Resigning as Pope!!

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Lorac, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    So could someone please explain the drama around this? I don't see why this is a big deal. Seems to me a rational and fair to all decision to make. Le shrug. That Mussolini granddaughter and her "He is abandoning his flock!!" :drama: is incomprehensible to me. Or is this the press sensationalizing it on a slow Monday?
  2. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    The drama is just because while it isn't unprecedented in history, it is in modern history. A pope stepping down is rare- it would be like Queen Elizabeth stepping down.
  3. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    The last time it happened was 1415 AD.
  4. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    How much of the reason for limited access, in some of those countries, is due to opposition from the Catholic Church?
  5. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Speaking as an Anglican, I don't see any huge influx of ex-Catholics joining the Anglican church because they think the Catholic Church is too liberal.

    All the ex-Catholics in my parish joined the Anglican church for exactly the opposite reason.
  6. suep1963

    suep1963 Well-Known Member

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    Oh please--that is the lamest thing I've heard in a long time. I'll be sure to let me sister and bil (the two ordained pastors) know that they've been unable to give adequate attention to each other these past 30 years of their marriage and they've allowed their kids to suffer neglect as well. Being a pastor is a job, like any other job. There are times where there are greater demands on your time, but to say that you cannot have a family/be married and be a pastor at the same time is just ignorant.
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  7. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Stop scaring me! :drama:

    It's a textbook example of internalised discrimination as well. So altogether very amusing.
  8. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    I did not say that. Read my post again.
  9. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Wow, thanks for generalizing all women as emotional and idiotic. I happen to be a very results-oriented and logical type of woman, but the world also needs people who are process oriented and in tune with emotions. And everything in between. Male and female.

    I've heard 90% in the US & Europe.

    On a humorous note: Pope Decides to Un-Retire, Stirring Controversy It's all about the Twitter account, folks.
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  10. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    The "masculine" way of management - ruling by fear with an iron fist - doesn't work and results in disheartened, disgruntled employees who don't take pride in their work. They only have to do just enough not to get yelled at. There's always a balance. The best bosses, IMO, are process-oriented but don't forget that they're working with people. Doesn't matter if they're men or women.

    Count me in with IceAlisa as one of those who doesn't really get what the whole drama with the Pope is. There's a first time for everything! Even if it's a "first time in 600 years." :lol:
  11. Andora

    Andora Well-Known Member

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    Most of my bosses have been women in my life. I've had good ones and bad ones, but I imagine I'd have had good and bad male ones as well. The upside is I've had some excellent mentors in the great female bosses I've had that my friends with predominantly male bosses haven't had. It never sits well with me when someone spouts that women aren't good in leadership roles with b.s. "evidence" to back it up. The opportunities have been so few compared to what men have had over decades.

    The Catholic church is a great example of that.
  12. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    That can be answered if you look at the access to medical care in general, no just birth control.
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Not really. There's limited access to medical care, yes. But there'a also massive lobbying on the catholic church's part against birth control measures which is doing massive harm given the prevalence of HIV infections.
  14. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    I would argue that one of the reasons it has 'reached' so many people and survived so long is its interdependent relationship with colonialism. Look at how many Catholics come from colonies (former and present). Many people were forcibly converted (some of my ancestors were threatened with death), and it was often dangerous to practice any religion but Catholicism. Yet people found creative ways to do so. Look at santeria, for instance, in which orishas were made present under the guise of saints. For some, this was a way to preserve religious traditions from the period before the Middle Passage. For others, the belief systems worked hand in hand, such that the saints were understood through Yoruba (and other) traditions.

    Catholicism, for all its claims to a traditional lineage, has actually been transformed by those who follow the faith. The people of the colonies for instance, have not just inherited a 'pure' form of Catholicism, rather, they have actively shaped the religion and how it is practiced today. In some places, the faith is negotiated in ways that speak to a legacy of slavery and colonialism and all that entails. There are priests and nuns who do not actively reproduce the Vatican's gender and sexuality ideologies, instead passing out prophylactics (Benedict didn't like that too much), acknowledging the existence of people who fall outside a two-sex system, etc.. I identify as Catholic but do not take direction from the Vatican. I attended World Youth Day some years ago in Germany to meet up with other Catholics involved in queer rights, feminist, and anti-racist movements, and I did encounter such people. Just because the Vatican isn't backing something, doesn't mean it doesn't have an important role in the everyday lives of many Catholics.

    I would argue that the Vatican's stance on sexuality and gender, for instance, is no less divisive than breaks from 'tradition'.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
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  15. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    But this is also the case in non-Catholic countries, in the sense that general access to health care is limited, including access to birth control. Other religions restrict birth control as well so when they are in power, things aren't much different. Certainly, the Catholic Church plays a large role in limiting access to birth control and abortion in many predominantly Catholic developing countries. IIRC, there was a case of death from ectopic pregnancy in a central American country where all abortion is banned.
  16. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    absolutely. especially when you look at the role the Catholic Church plays in foreign aid. In some cases, they provide 25% of a country's aid, and as such, have a lot of influence over policies around prophylactics. They can prevent government funding of social programs that do not meet their standards (ie. comply with the Vatican's teachings). Some groups of bishops involved with
    aid have previously denied and continue to deny funding to programs that distribute condoms, birth control and/or info about abortions.
  17. Rogue

    Rogue Sexy Superhero

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    There was a case in Ireland where a non-Catholic died after being denied a life-saving abortion.
  18. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    I read that there was a death in Ireland that could have been prevented if abortion had been legal:

    http://storyofwomen.wordpress.com/

    I'm not sure if Ireland qualifies as a "third world country" where access to other medical care is limited.

    I just hope that the new pontiff does something about the abuse cases (including the Irish laundries) other than protecting the higher ups who didn't do anything in response to the reports.
  19. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Ziggy and the Pope shacking up together. That I would like to see.
  20. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Heartbreaking and criminal.
  21. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    It's quite rational. If he feels he can't to the job with 100% commitment then he is within his right to step down and let someone else lead the one billion Catholics around the world.

    Drama? You bet, he's the first one leave his role not by death but by stepping down in almost 600 years. If that's not drama and news worthy, I'm not sure what is, a Kardashian? And although he has alluded to it in the past, I don't think many close to him knew it was even going to happen.
  22. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I am certainly not close to him but I am not surprised by this decision. I was surprised when he was elected. I heard he is the oldest Pope to be elected in what, 200 years? Hope the cardinals keep the age and state of health of the candidates in mind this time. Ratzinger wasn't the paragon of health even before he was Pope. This job requires a lot of energy and vigor.
  23. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

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    I remember reading at the time of his election that it was believed he was chosen as a sort of interim Pope between John Paul II and another, younger Pope who would lead for many years.

    It was quite clear at the time that Benedict wasn't expected to live very long and that his brief tenure would be used to determine the future course of the Church.
  24. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Oh so they thought he was elderly, frail and being Pope would do him in even sooner? Nice cardinals. :lynch:

    OK, that's not what they may have literally thought but still. :eek:

    Oh well, they had 8 years to get their ducks in a row.
  25. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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    This was mentioned on CNN this morning.

    It will be interesting to hear the name of the new Pope. Usually something significant to the name choice the new pope takes.
  26. suep1963

    suep1963 Well-Known Member

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    the job of a pastor/priest is very consuming often leaving inadequate time to nurture a marriage and be a good parent.

    Sounds like you did indeed say that.
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  27. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    bahahaha!!!:lol:


    PDilemma said often, not always.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
  28. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    Just curious, when you say Anglican, is that Episcopalian?


    I remember that, as well.
  29. Southpaw

    Southpaw Saint Smugpawski

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    The Pope sez he'll do the cooking if Ziggy does the laundry. Can a German and a Polish man share an apartment without driving each other crazy?

    :cueoddcoupletheme:
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  30. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, great morals. In Germany, if a Catholic and Protestant want to get married in a Catholic church they have to agree to raise their children in Catholic faith. The Catholic church doesn't recognize gays, they preach to women in Africa where the HIV rate is extremely high, not to use protection when having sex. They don't support equal rights for women and forced millions of people to accept their faith as the only faith. And as far as I know, though I might be mistaken on that, they're the ones responsible for the "witch hunt".
    But yeah, they really have great morals. :rolleyes:
  31. bek

    bek Guest

    I never said changes would lead to corrupt leadership. I said that I worry about corrupt leadership getting carte blanche to change teachings.

    We have had corrupt Popes/leaders throughout time. How could we not considering the power in our Church. However all of these folks were bound by Church teaching.

    So i.e these folks might be outright hypocrites, but they never "repudiated the official teachings." For example there were popes who went out and had affairs/illegitimate children. But they never got up and announced to the world that premarital and adultery were not mortal sins. Why because these folks are bound by Scripture and Tradition.

    The pope for example no matter how much he may want to cannot repudiate the Nicene Creed. He can't say the book of James is no longer Scripture. He's bound by quite a lot of things because of Scripture.

    And what i worry about is if you take away that yes straight jacket! Than you give a lot of very corrupt people far more power than they had before.

    For example during the Reformation so much corruption in the Church so many corrupt popes. But I remember one day as a Protestant reading the Council of Trent on faith and works, and I was amazed by the use of Scripture and how perfectly James and Paul were correlated together as it talked about we are justified by faith, but faith without love means nothing. Beautiful stuff. And its beautiful because it came really not from those folks but rather from the tradition of the Church. And it was the Tradition of the Church that was speaking in that bright moment.


    Not any of those folks bright ideas.. That's what I go to, and that's what I look at. Those folks are bound to reiterate it.

    And for the record tradition relates to faith and morals. Practices can change. Priestly celibacy is a practice and its really a little tradition. It can change whenever the church feels its necessary to change. It is not part of the rule faith, it is not dogma.

    When I talk about Traditions/teachings I'm talking about these wonderful teachings on love. Reading folks like St Francis, Theresa of Liseaux. Reading church teachings on how the poor and the marginalized really should be treated. Examples like Archbishop Romero. These are things that I find as Catholic meaningful. 2,000 years of contemplation of the meaning of God and who He is....Its amazing stuff. And its stuff that draws me far closer to the Lord.

    When I ask myself on things of doctrine or how I should live my life I look towards the traditional teachings of the Church. At times our leaders hypocrites but then I try to do as Jesus says "what they say and not what they do." And I know at times I to am a hypocrite.

    Yes we have had corrupt leaders, and people who will answer to the Lord for their actions. However we have also had folks throughout time who in their own imperfect way have lived the teachings of the Church...Or at least truly attempted too.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2013
  32. Cachoo

    Cachoo Well-Known Member

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    One of the men being mentioned to replace him is from Montreal. Now that might be interesting--a non-European pope.
  33. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Ratzinger appointed half of the cardinals; JPII the other half. It'll be the same crap, different guy.
    I don't expect the Church to change at all with this. It'll remain the backwards, elephant of an institution it always has been.

    For the record, I grew up Catholic.
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  34. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I like doing the laundry but hate cooking. That's perfect!

    And German men are hot and awesome. :)
  35. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I think they should become the latest crime fighting due "Ziggy and the Pope".
  36. falling_dance

    falling_dance Well-Known Member

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    The hit theme would be titled "Ziggy Stardust and the Bishop of Rome".
  37. bek

    bek Guest

    There are two African cardinals on the list as well as a few Latin American popes!
  38. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    It's the Episcopalian church in the US and in a few other places, but the Anglican church or Church of England everywhere else.
  39. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    I must admit that when I heard this news, I wondered if there is something scandalous about to break (maybe involving the Vatileaks affair: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatileaks_scandal) and if the current Pope is leaving to avoid having to deal with the fallout.
  40. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

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    I remember reading at the time of Pope Benedict's election that the next Pope would likely come from Africa or Latin America because that is where Catholicism is expanding. That was part of the prediction about a younger Pope leading the Church into the future.

    I wouldn't bet on either one, though.