Pope Benedict XVI Resigning as Pope!!

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Lorac, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    I don't expect the Church or any other form of orthodoxy to budge on birth control. They want more Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc.
     
  2. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    No. Pedophiles do not molest children because they are single. That is a complete misunderstanding of that pathology.

    Coming from a Protestant background into the Catholic church, I see the issue of married priests from a different perspective. The pressure on spouses and children of pastors is very damaging sometimes. And the job of a pastor/priest is very consuming often leaving inadequate time to nurture a marriage and be a good parent. In that respect, celibacy frees priests to devote their whole energy to the church and does not leave a spouse or children without adequate attention/devotion from a husband/father. At the same time, it also makes it difficult for priests to have balance and space away from their work.
     
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  3. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    This made me chuckle. My daughter is getting her master's in Occupational Therapy. Probably 25% of her fellow classmates are Jewish Orthodox young women, who fit that description exactly. My daughter came home, after her first day of classes and was amazed! She couldn't believe how young they were, that they were married, had more than one or two kids, and were taking on such a difficult program!
     
  4. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    I was not specifically speaking to pedophiles. There has been molestation in the church for centuries, nuns for example.
     
  5. Stormy

    Stormy Well-Known Member

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    Yup. This! From someone who went to mass every single Saturday until I was about 20 as well as Catholic school from K - 12 and then a Catholic college. There is so much I disagree with that the Catholic church teaches and believes in that I doubt I will ever go to Catholic mass again. My husband is Lutheran and his stepfather is a Lutheran pastor and we were married in their church. If we ever had kids they won't be brought up Catholic, that's for sure.
     
  6. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    Again, though, rape, molestation and other forced/non-consensual sexual behaviors are not a result of being single. Married/partnered people can engage in those behaviors just as much as single ones.

    The Catholic church does not have a monopoly at all on sexual misbehavior by clergy or others in position of power. The media has under reported incidents in other denominations. This blog catalogs a number of incidents and cover-ups both Catholic and Protestant. It is mind boggling. But if you read it, you might notice that marriage is not much of an inoculation against such behavior:

    http://thewartburgwatch.com/category/sexual-offenderspedohiliathe-church/
     
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  7. skipaway

    skipaway Well-Known Member

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    True in NA and most of Europe but what about women in the 3rd World countries?
     
  8. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    I am not sure women in these countries have wide and easy excess to birth control to begin with, regardless of religion.
     
  9. Andora

    Andora Well-Known Member

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    This, agreed. But I don't think the church will ever change. Birth control change could be so effective in poorer countries. Changing position on homosexuality. Re-focusing on helping the needy vs. Joey The Rat piping up about feminism and such.

    Maybe I'm just unfair because I want the church to agree with me, and that's not how it works. But I refuse to go back while the pedophile priest scandal is dismissed by the church (in fact, didn't Ratzinger claim it was persecution at one point? :rolleyes:), among other things I've mentioned.

    That said, I'm glad Ratzinger is stepping down. I don't hold much hope for the future of the church, but there's slight potential now...

    Never change, danceronice. Your ridiculous take on women never fails to bring me joy.
     
  10. skipaway

    skipaway Well-Known Member

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    very true.
     
  11. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    So could someone please explain the drama around this? I don't see why this is a big deal. Seems to me a rational and fair to all decision to make. Le shrug. That Mussolini granddaughter and her "He is abandoning his flock!!" :drama: is incomprehensible to me. Or is this the press sensationalizing it on a slow Monday?
     
  12. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    The drama is just because while it isn't unprecedented in history, it is in modern history. A pope stepping down is rare- it would be like Queen Elizabeth stepping down.
     
  13. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    The last time it happened was 1415 AD.
     
  14. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    How much of the reason for limited access, in some of those countries, is due to opposition from the Catholic Church?
     
  15. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Speaking as an Anglican, I don't see any huge influx of ex-Catholics joining the Anglican church because they think the Catholic Church is too liberal.

    All the ex-Catholics in my parish joined the Anglican church for exactly the opposite reason.
     
  16. suep1963

    suep1963 Well-Known Member

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    Oh please--that is the lamest thing I've heard in a long time. I'll be sure to let me sister and bil (the two ordained pastors) know that they've been unable to give adequate attention to each other these past 30 years of their marriage and they've allowed their kids to suffer neglect as well. Being a pastor is a job, like any other job. There are times where there are greater demands on your time, but to say that you cannot have a family/be married and be a pastor at the same time is just ignorant.
     
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  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Stop scaring me! :drama:

    It's a textbook example of internalised discrimination as well. So altogether very amusing.
     
  18. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    I did not say that. Read my post again.
     
  19. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Wow, thanks for generalizing all women as emotional and idiotic. I happen to be a very results-oriented and logical type of woman, but the world also needs people who are process oriented and in tune with emotions. And everything in between. Male and female.

    I've heard 90% in the US & Europe.

    On a humorous note: Pope Decides to Un-Retire, Stirring Controversy It's all about the Twitter account, folks.
     
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  20. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    The "masculine" way of management - ruling by fear with an iron fist - doesn't work and results in disheartened, disgruntled employees who don't take pride in their work. They only have to do just enough not to get yelled at. There's always a balance. The best bosses, IMO, are process-oriented but don't forget that they're working with people. Doesn't matter if they're men or women.

    Count me in with IceAlisa as one of those who doesn't really get what the whole drama with the Pope is. There's a first time for everything! Even if it's a "first time in 600 years." :lol:
     
  21. Andora

    Andora Well-Known Member

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    Most of my bosses have been women in my life. I've had good ones and bad ones, but I imagine I'd have had good and bad male ones as well. The upside is I've had some excellent mentors in the great female bosses I've had that my friends with predominantly male bosses haven't had. It never sits well with me when someone spouts that women aren't good in leadership roles with b.s. "evidence" to back it up. The opportunities have been so few compared to what men have had over decades.

    The Catholic church is a great example of that.
     
  22. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    That can be answered if you look at the access to medical care in general, no just birth control.
     
  23. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Not really. There's limited access to medical care, yes. But there'a also massive lobbying on the catholic church's part against birth control measures which is doing massive harm given the prevalence of HIV infections.
     
  24. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan Well-Known Member

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    I would argue that one of the reasons it has 'reached' so many people and survived so long is its interdependent relationship with colonialism. Look at how many Catholics come from colonies (former and present). Many people were forcibly converted (some of my ancestors were threatened with death), and it was often dangerous to practice any religion but Catholicism. Yet people found creative ways to do so. Look at santeria, for instance, in which orishas were made present under the guise of saints. For some, this was a way to preserve religious traditions from the period before the Middle Passage. For others, the belief systems worked hand in hand, such that the saints were understood through Yoruba (and other) traditions.

    Catholicism, for all its claims to a traditional lineage, has actually been transformed by those who follow the faith. The people of the colonies for instance, have not just inherited a 'pure' form of Catholicism, rather, they have actively shaped the religion and how it is practiced today. In some places, the faith is negotiated in ways that speak to a legacy of slavery and colonialism and all that entails. There are priests and nuns who do not actively reproduce the Vatican's gender and sexuality ideologies, instead passing out prophylactics (Benedict didn't like that too much), acknowledging the existence of people who fall outside a two-sex system, etc.. I identify as Catholic but do not take direction from the Vatican. I attended World Youth Day some years ago in Germany to meet up with other Catholics involved in queer rights, feminist, and anti-racist movements, and I did encounter such people. Just because the Vatican isn't backing something, doesn't mean it doesn't have an important role in the everyday lives of many Catholics.

    I would argue that the Vatican's stance on sexuality and gender, for instance, is no less divisive than breaks from 'tradition'.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
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  25. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    But this is also the case in non-Catholic countries, in the sense that general access to health care is limited, including access to birth control. Other religions restrict birth control as well so when they are in power, things aren't much different. Certainly, the Catholic Church plays a large role in limiting access to birth control and abortion in many predominantly Catholic developing countries. IIRC, there was a case of death from ectopic pregnancy in a central American country where all abortion is banned.
     
  26. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan Well-Known Member

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    absolutely. especially when you look at the role the Catholic Church plays in foreign aid. In some cases, they provide 25% of a country's aid, and as such, have a lot of influence over policies around prophylactics. They can prevent government funding of social programs that do not meet their standards (ie. comply with the Vatican's teachings). Some groups of bishops involved with
    aid have previously denied and continue to deny funding to programs that distribute condoms, birth control and/or info about abortions.
     
  27. Rogue

    Rogue Sexy Superhero

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    There was a case in Ireland where a non-Catholic died after being denied a life-saving abortion.
     
  28. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    I read that there was a death in Ireland that could have been prevented if abortion had been legal:

    http://storyofwomen.wordpress.com/

    I'm not sure if Ireland qualifies as a "third world country" where access to other medical care is limited.

    I just hope that the new pontiff does something about the abuse cases (including the Irish laundries) other than protecting the higher ups who didn't do anything in response to the reports.
     
  29. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Ziggy and the Pope shacking up together. That I would like to see.
     
  30. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Heartbreaking and criminal.