Poodles on Parade: 2012 Westminster Dog Show tonight

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by rfisher, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. A.H.Black

    A.H.Black Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it, the winner is supposed to be the dog that comes closest to the "standard" for that breed. I'm wondering if it is easier for the small dogs to come closer to that standard. Otherwise, I'm like many posters here - I think the big dogs get robbed far too often.

    Like I posted earlier - why can't a labrador or a golden retriever ever get the nod.
     
  2. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    That Setter had 15 puppies and got back in top shape in a little over a year! Sometimes the BIS winner is simply based on attitude. They all represent the breed standard so the difference is that indefinable something the dog has. I really thought the Dobie and the Shepherd showed the best. That Dobie's stance was perfect, but this Peke has won more BIS than any other dog this last year, so he's got something.
     
  3. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Well, whatever the Peke's got, doesn't come through on TV. I didn't notice any attitude. Le shrug. The setter wuzrobbed! :drama:
     
  4. BaileyCatts

    BaileyCatts Well-Known Member

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    I did. I thought he o-w-n-e-d that room when he did his final run. I thought the German Shepard had that same 'tude also and might have got in there for the win, but I was still rooting for the Peke. :p

    :dog:
     
  5. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

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    I suspect with BiS so much of it is things you have to put your hands on the dog to tell. I've READ the standards, but some of them are just...I think if I had a dog example in front of me they'd be more logical. When they're bad, they're BAD (I know why my Pembroke was someone's chubby pet and not a show dog) but deciding between great dogs has to come down to tiny things like teeth alignment.
     
  6. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    For instance, my parents' cat is a Birman and she is pet quality. I know exactly why: her eyes aren't blue enough, that is not a deep blue and her mittens are not all the same and don't taper up in the back the way they are supposed to. Her sister though, grew up to be a champion show cat. (I TOLD my parents to get both kittens when they had the chance!)
     
  7. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    If coming closest to standard is what's needed to win, then there is really no need to show the dogs. The showing - how the handler and dogs 'perform' - doesn't really matter, it's all just for show (pun intended :)

    I've been disappointed with the results of Westminster every year since Josh the Newfoundland won - though I was okay when the beagle won.

    I've never seen a golden or lab even make it to the final, and this year was thrilled to see the Dobie, the Shepherd, and the Irish Setter in the final line-up. IMO the Irish Setter stole the show the way he literally pranced around the stage. Even the wiener dog shows better than the Peke.

    My downstairs neighbour is a Peke person and I admit I'm not fond of the breed - it's a decorative breed as they were meant to sit on pillows for the emperor, so they are kind of dumb dogs. I find them quite unattractive as well. But of the three my neighbour had, one was pure white and the colour did make for a more attractive peke.

    But the Peke who won here, I'm sorry to say, was not IMO an attractive dog at all.
     
  8. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Malachy the Fairest Peke of them all, sure looked like wouldn't mind sitting on a pillow. When he was being walked (the whole 2 yards of it) he kept looking up at the handler, as if saying "Dude, you gonna pick me up soon or what?"

    I was happy when Josh the Newfie won, Uno the Beagle and that Sussex spaniel, what's his name. Here's a slideshow of past winners of Westminster: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...ow/2012/02/10/gIQAjVHe4Q_gallery.html#photo=1
     
  9. Marge_Simpson

    Marge_Simpson Well-Known Member

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  10. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    Just like skating, some of the dogs get a rep bonus and they get a bonus based on the handler's rep. All those dogs except the Dobie were handled by a professional handler. The guy who won, has won BIS at Westminster before, so there are sort of bonus points for that. Even if the judge didn't know which dog had made the final cut, it's very likely she was familiar with all 7 dogs, their owners and certainly their handlers from other shows this year. The winning dog is almost always the top winning dog in the country before WKC's show. A dog has to have so many points before they even get the invitation to compete. Just being invited to compete in best of breed is a big boost for a dog's rep, to say nothing of the handler or kennel.
     
  11. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

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    Part of the breed standard is action and behavior (why they try to keep bouncing and barking to a minimum, even though it's crowd pleasing.) A handler showing off the dog's action and stance incorrectly can screw up even a nice dog's placing. That's why even though I'd love to try showing a dog in confo if I lucked into a really spectacular dog I'd turn it over to a professional handler for something like Crufts or Westminster. No reason to let my amateur handling skills screw up a dog's day.

    I think the 'viewers at home' tend to be biased towards the big and common breeds. With labs, I'd think part of their problem is decades of quantity over quality-it's harder to create a perfect show lab. With Goldens, I'm biased but all the ones I've met (pet/show type, as opposed to the rather rangy, flatter-coated working dogs, which don't look like show Goldens) have had dryer lint where their brains ought to be.

    And I'm sorry, but I say German Shepherds can win again when they stop breeding dogs with backs that tilt at 45 degrees to the ground.

    (What do I know? I'm still holding out for a Clumber Spaniel best in show. I love Clumbers almost as much as Sussex. Trying to convince my Dad, he NEEDS a nice big upland bird dog to stroll around the farm. He likes them, but as he doesn't hunt birds, he's unconvinced of a Clumber's nescessity.)
     
  12. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    Stump. Josh was one of my favorite winners. I also liked the Deerhound last year and Rufus the bull terrier. He just had so much personality. And there was the German Shorthair pointed who showed so well -- posing perfectly in pointer stance.
     
  13. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  14. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    Malachy rang the opening bell at the NY stock exchange today. :cool:
     
  15. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    IceAlisa and (deleted member) like this.
  16. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    I love pointers. If I had several acres of land, I'd have one. My parents had pointers and English setters that they use with quail. Watching a good field dog work is so much fun.
     
  17. cholla

    cholla Fearless Musher

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    I have both and none of them agree ;)
     
  18. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone else say if Malachy has what I would consider good markings? His coloring seem to be balanced so that both sides of his face and body matched. The colors changed from grey to black to tan, which made him interesting, but they always matched, one side to the other. The only thing I would pick a bone with is that it seemed like his hair was blown dry to hard and fast, it seemed brittle, but maybe that is the breed standard. His hair seemed perfectly cropped, shaped, but still a little fly away.

    I would have given it to the Irish Setter because she had 15 puppies last year and bounced right back. Her coat was so shiny and gorgeous. She was regal.
     
  19. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    IIRC, Malachy's hair doesn't need trimming, just lots of grooming.
     
  20. Sassafras

    Sassafras Well-Known Member

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    Looks like he need a good conditioner.
     
  21. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Yes.
     
  22. Cachoo

    Cachoo Well-Known Member

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    I bet they tie when it comes to keeping up with all of the fur. I can't believe how early her second coat started shedding this year. Of course it has been unusually warm....
     
  23. cholla

    cholla Fearless Musher

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    Cygnus & Cachoo, are you mushers ? Or do you have just one dog ?
     
  24. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    :lol:

    Intelligence isn't required to win show titles. The Pekingese not exactly a genius among dogs.
     
  25. cygnus

    cygnus Liberal Furry

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    Just the one dog. I'd love to have a team, but one is enough (for now!)
     
    cholla and (deleted member) like this.
  26. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

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    The Goldens just LOOK dumb, though. :lol: All that poofy hair and the puppy heads (the Border Collies are kind of getting the same way as far as their huge poofy coats and bulbish heads compared to the really wiry herding dogs.)

    And all that fluff...I always loved Malamutes and Siberian Huskies in theory and then I saw the hair on my friend's when the coat goes...that is more fuzz than I can deal with! You could stuff pillows!
     
  27. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    Goldens look dumb? :confused: Poofy Goldens, Border Collies, Malamutes and Siberians?:confused:

    These are among the least ridiculous dogs in the competition.

    The Poodles rule the poof. The Shi Tsus look like they've got hair extensions. And the Peke who won look he/she was having a bad hair day and someone blew dry the coat in the wrong direction. Peke's hardly have any face and this one you couldn't see at all.
     
  28. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

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    You've never seen original working-line goldens and border collies, have you? They (and Aussies) do NOT look like the fluff-coated puppy-faced show dogs. Also the bones on the herders are getting much too heavy. The working lines are thiner-boned, leaner, with narrower faces and do NOT have mountains of foofy hair. You can't hunt duck with a show golden's coat. The Border Collies are reaching the point of the ridiculous--they don't look like Border Collies.

    Toys are what they are. The Peke is meant to be the personal lapdog of the Chinese Imperial family. It doesn't HAVE to keep its hair clean as in its world, it doesn't walk. It sits on pillows and rides in sleeves. In terms of which confo ring dog better suits the breed's purpose, the Toys blow the pet-popular Goldens and Labs and unfortunate popular herding breeds out of the water. They can still be lap dogs. I would never send a Border Collie with a show coat into Highland heather to round up sheep. I'd be picking crap out of it for weeks. It's a beauty queen, which is fine for a breed that exists solely as a house dog, but that's not what a herding dog is for. You can't give the sheep the eye out of a bulbous puppy face.

    As for Siberians and Malamutes, they do something called "blowing their coat." If you don't like a dog that takes shedding to undreamed-of heights, NOT the dog for you. That's just how they are--the thick Arctic coat has to come off at some point. I have enough trouble with the thick undercoat on a Pembroke.
     
  29. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    Um - I actually have a golden retriever myself (from field lines) and am very familiar with the breed. I simply do not agree with you that they look ridiculous or foofy.

    I agree that the bones are heavier in the show dogs. Didn't see the border collies, so can't comment on that.

    Which pretty much makes a mockery of the notion that Westminister is a competition and explains why some of the bigger breeds do poorly. Knowing this, I'll be less inclined to watch Westminister in future.
     
  30. Jimena

    Jimena Well-Known Member

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    A Clumber won best in show a few years back (1996). He was absolutely gorgeous. I believe he won Crufts as well. I love that breed. Though I'm very committed to mixed breed rescues, a Clumber would be my dream dog. Well, one of many.

    That said, I'm down on dog shows since I saw that British documentary on what show breeding has done to dogs. :( I'm still not over it.