Polina Edmunds: "I think anything is possible" (2014-15 pre-season article)

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Aug 15, 2014.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Back to the basics: Edmunds enjoying teenage life
    Kwan lauds 16-year-old's low-key approach following breakout year
    Posted 8/15/14 by Nick McCarvel, special to icenetwork
    http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2014/08/15/89738848

    Fan cam videos of Edmunds from the Glacier Falls club competition earlier this month:
    SP (65.64): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCYexLLl59o
    FS (135.80): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FsTyQsoTCA

    Link to watch the Senior Ladies SP & FS professional videos from Glacier Falls on IN (free to all) are posted in the TV Alerts forum: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...cier-falls-summer-classic.92869/#post-4304935
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  2. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    She's definitely got her head in the right place and, from her results at Glacier Falls, it appears to be working. I really hope she has a strong senior debut on the Grand Prix.

    I like that she's confident. That's a plus IMO. The fact that she stated she wants to win nationals is great b/c it shows that she isn't afraid to aim high...and why should she be? I'm pretty sure she knows she's technically superior to Gracie and Ashley at this point which means as long as she has a strong debut she will be in a good position to challenge at nationals this year.
     
  3. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link. I re-watched her performances at Glacier Falls. I LOVE this kid.
     
  4. kirkbiggestfan

    kirkbiggestfan Well-Known Member

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    Technically, Gracie can land the same jumps. 3Lz-3T and 3Finto3S. Polina and Gracie are going to push each other. I am worried that Polina's body is going to change very soon and those easy 3-3 will be gone.
     
  5. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    She's got the right mindset. Her stated goals are doable but of course will not be easy.

    As for her chances, I don't like the tendency to overhype every time a good talent emerges. Leads to unnecessarily high expectations and then disappointment when they are not met. I prefer to sit back and watch what happens.

    Plus, folks should remember she's only 16. A lot will happen with her over the next 2 seasons.
     
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  6. coppertop1

    coppertop1 Active Member

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    All the best, Polina! She did every well at her senior debut, 9th at Olympics and 8th at Worlds. I hope she doesn't lose her jumps, I think there is reason to be optimistic but yeah, let's keep the hype at a reasonable level.

    Glad she's deciding to enjoy being a teenager. More to life than skating.
     
  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Do you believe it's "overhype" to start a thread in GSD for this Edmunds article? Just curious how you define "overhype" in this context? The article itself didn't seem to "overhype" Edmunds, IMO, which is why I decided to start a thread in GSD and not just stick the article link in the U.S. Ladies general discussion thread in the Trash Can.

    BTW, I fall into the "prefer to sit back and watch what happens" category myself, while also believing in celebrating the accomplishment of young skaters in the here and now.

    ETA that I liked her father's quote:
    The author of this article only started covering figure skating last year, and the part bolded by me is typical of many sports journalists who focus too much on the numbers and subsequently transpose scores across competitions (a domestic summer club competition is not at all comparable to Worlds):
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  8. once_upon

    once_upon Yes, I will have some cheese with that wine

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    I guess I would put it in the overhype category - not because of this thread - but because both she and Gracie have been pronounced the future of women's skating in the US, I think in the manner of future OGM. I think that they are both great skaters, but the amount of media pressure could be too much or the potential to loose jumps or the potential for injury. I like RD would like to see the next couple of years play out before pinning the US hopes on her to bring back an OGM/TV viewership.
    JMO of course
     
  9. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    This is an article in icenetwork and a figure skating board thread. These seem to be totally appropriate venues to talk about the potential of the US national silver medalist. It’s not like she has been on the cover of Time Magazine.
     
    shine likes this.
  10. once_upon

    once_upon Yes, I will have some cheese with that wine

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    How many US national silver medalists have people pinned their hopes on early in a quad who did not go past 2 years. Naomi Nari Nam, Kimmie Meissner. Then there is BeBe Liang, Caroline Zhang, Sydne Vogel, and others. Yes, they had success - some more than others. I don't think that it is inappropriate to discuss it - just that I think we need to let a couple of years play out. This is figure skating board and people can have differences of opinions.

    Note that I said I think. Not that everyone else should think about it. Sylvia asked what RD thought was overhyped. I answered what I think should be a bit more cautious. Guess..not
     
  11. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    For sure, I think you are correct that she might not pan out. It can be fun to see what happens either way.
     
  12. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    I love that Nick McCarvel, a twentysomething freelance tennis reporter who got a gig reporting on skating for NBC.com pre-Sochi and doesn't even understand how IJS works, is now writing for Icenetwork...

    Anyway, I think Polina is very much in danger of getting too tall to pull around the triple-triples. I think we could see a lot of downgrades this year that start to mess with her confidence. However, I really like her airy style and the way she sort of floats across the ice without a lot of apparent effort. It's special.
     
  13. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    IMO (which means next to nothing) Polina is not a splash in the pan. Her basics are very, very good, she has innate artistry, good musicality, and it appears she has both a good mindset and a grounded team around her. I don't think she is over-hyped at all. Gracie - different matter all together in the hype department. Puts a lot of pressure on her.

    I think it is going to be very, very fun to watch Polina during the next few years.
     
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  14. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    Why is too tall a problem for women vs men of similar height? The muscle to height ratio? I don't think Polina is taller than Kevin Reynolds.
     
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  15. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    How did Kwan get into the conversation?
     
  16. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ :rofl: Maybe they called Kwan for a quote or something. :lol: Maybe they were trying to make some kind of comparison or force channel some of that Kwan magic back into U.S. ladies figure skating. Kwan's talent and magic were taken for granted for so long by USFS and by the sport of figure skating generally.

    Whoa re Nick McCarvel's credentials, but hopefully he found something compelling and inspiring about figure skating that has drawn him to the sport, besides the idea of a paycheck. Perhaps he will begin to learn more about the sport and its history. The fact he knows little about IJS to me by itself does not discredit his ability to write about figure skating. ;)

    Polina is a wonderful young lady and very talented. I wish her well, but please re the comparisons to "14-year-old Tara Lipinski." Jeez, I hope not. Tara was/ is herself and Polina needs to be herself and chart her own unique journey.

    Regarding hype for Polina, yes I suppose, but hopefully TPTB are learning something and will keep it more in a promotional vein rather than overloading this talented young skater with tremendous pressure as has happened previously and way too often. Good for her that she has supportive parents that are trying to help keep her life as normal and grounded as possible.

    ITA though that the promotion of talented U.S. skaters should be spread around and not overly focused and placed on the shoulders of just a few who break-out in a big way. Indeed many things can happen and time will tell. Everyone should be more focused on the singular steps of a talented skater's journey itself rather than dreaming of and predicting or expecting grand and glorious outcomes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
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  17. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    No, I was speaking in a more general context. Nothing wrong with this thread, didn't intend to imply that there was.

    There's a fine line between promotion and hype IMO.


    Generally, no. But a couple of quotes jumped out at me:

    Hmm...kinda borderline to put it mildly, no? :eek: I mean, we know MUCH better than to directly compare scores on the national and international level. I literally laughed when I read that second bolded quote. And then Kwan comes in and essentially compares herself to Edmunds, calling her a "star". I mean...make of that what you will, but...YMMV I guess.



    That aside, it's good to know what she's up to and what her goals are for the season. Clearly she wants to aim high and is not shy to say so. That's only a good thing. Hopefully she can reach all the goals she's set for herself this year.
     
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  18. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    Well, for example, I would think not understanding the basic structure of a tennis match would prohibit someone from covering that sport. I understand during the Olympics all media outlets have to recruit writers or move writers off their usual beats in order to cover skating for two weeks once every four years, but I'm surprised to now see McCarvel all over Icenetwork this pre-season. I remember during the Olympic season he would make mistakes (often big mistakes) during his "live-tweeting" of events (often displaying a startling lack of basic knowledge) and he would almost never correct or admit mistakes after they were pointed out to him.
     
  19. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Well, I did add the ;) to my comment. Of course you make valid criticisms, and of course if McCarvel knows little to nothing about figure skating and its history on top of not having at least a basic knowledge of IJS, that more than hampers his effectiveness and credibility. But obviously TPTB who hired him don't seem to care.

    ETA:
    There are quite a few U.S. ladies deserving of balanced promotion, encouragement and support. Two of whom made it possible for there to be a position on the U.S. Olympic team for Polina to claim. The tendency for judgmental "What have you done lately?" attitudes, and for focusing on who's hot and discarding who's not, is rampant. Often, though, it can prove beneficial to fly under the radar. Invaluable also to be able to develop tough inner confidence and self-belief that can withstand all the ups and downs.

    BTW, I don't think Polina has been or will be less hyped or promoted than Gracie. Their individual circumstances and trajectory have just been different, as are their personalities, strengths and weaknesses.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
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  20. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    But one of McCarvel's strong points is that he gracefully and happily accepts any and all corrections that you care to send him. He is obviously keen to learn.
     
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  21. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Well good for McCarvel, if that's the case. As I said, hopefully he is genuinely drawn to the sport and wants to learn more than just the superficialities. Coverage of the sport of fs has historically been characterized by errors, limited knowledge, superficiality and hype.

    In McCarvel's article, the assumption that it was somehow smarter for Polina to turn down post-Olympic event appearances in comparison to choices made by Gracie and Ashley is laughable, as are the passages RD highlighted previously.

    Polina is younger, lesser known and heralded pre-Olympics, and obviously she did not participate in the team event. Under those circumstances, of course it was a wise decision for her to unwind and get back to normal, while taking advantage of less high profile post-Olympic opportunities. It seems to me that Gracie and Ashley were expected to take advantage of high-profile offers, and it would have been strange if they hadn't. I hope Gracie, Ashley and all the up-and-coming U.S. ladies provide Ms. Edmunds with a continuously vigorous, valiant challenge. Such a scenario would benefit all concerned.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  22. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he's gotten better, but I vividly remember following him when he was live-tweeting the GPF and he made mistake after mistake. I would hit expand on his tweets and 3-4 knowledgeable fans would have corrected him each time, but unless it was an elite skater or Sarah or Drew who set him straight, he would completely ignore and not tweet a correction. I had to stop following him because it frustrated me so much that he was literally getting paid for this "coverage."

    Alas, he's apparently not going anywhere. I'm sure he'll get better, but it's sad that you don't even need a base of knowledge to get hired to write about this sport anymore. The fact that he would compare Glacier Falls scores to Worlds is patently hilarious. But it's also true that I don't think Phil or Christine truly understand scoring or IJS either...
     
  23. 4rkidz

    4rkidz plotting, planning and travelling

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    I agree that Polina and Gracie are going to push each other which I think will be beneficial to all US women skaters - and I'm not too worried about body changes as her hips and shoulders have already developed physically and her arms - those are the key areas for impacting on the physics of the jumps.. With regards to her height I think with her technique its not as much an issue as she doesn't whip her jumps like the tiny ones - I think she is going to develop more like Carolina Kostner - which isn't a bad thing in my book :)
     
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  24. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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    Well, at least he is not a Phil Hersh! Now that means HYPE!
     
  25. sk8watch

    sk8watch Banned Member

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    Well its just a matter of component scores for Polina at this point. She already has a technical arsenal that places her in the top 3 of the world. Its fun to see the young ladies adding new elements and trying to one up each other across the board. Pogorilaya also has the three jump combo with 2 triples, but does a 3Lo to start, instead of Polina's 3F. Something like a 3Lz+3T+2Lo could also be something to watch out for. It seems like these 4 years will be defined by an experimentation with the CoP system---what assortment of elements add up to the highest TES. I wonder if someone will pull off a long program with 2 triple-triple passes, and a 2A+3T. That would be an impressive feat!
     
  26. analia

    analia Active Member

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    People seem to always say Polina has good basics, but her speed is nothing to compare to Sotnikova or even Lipnitskaya. She is slower and has less powerful strokes than Gold (this seems to be an important factor to determine your SS score, which sort of punishes Asada for her softer strokes). Her step sequences are rather slow and labored. Her spins are not strong. Her jumps are solid but not spectacular. I only see a mid of the pack skater in her. But the thing that really doesn't interest me about her is that Polina always comes across in interviews as a really happy and carefree child with no personality. All the Russian babies two years younger than her seem to be a lot more sophisticated-minded.
     
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  27. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

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    I know I'm going to end up loving her eventually, however now is not that time. I find her presentation to be meek, inauthentic, and disconnected, but technically beautiful with a lot of potential. Her lines are beautiful.

    She will probably be U.S. and World Champion this year. :shuffle:
     
  28. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Re Gold v. Polina. If Gold has as many edge changes in her steps maybe she'll slow down too? :)
    (I like them both, not an uber of one or the other)
     
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  29. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Even though she doesn't skate super fast, her edges are very flowing and smooth and her turns are so easy. She uses her knees very well, and always has a nice ride out coming out of a turn instead of coming to a dry stop and needing to rely on pushing or changing foot like many skaters. She is one of those few skaters who have found the "sweet spot" on the blades IMO. I also find her lines in her spins very pleasing to watch.
     
  30. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Well, to each their own. ITA with those who admire Polina's skills and talent, and who prefer to sit back and enjoy watching her develop without all the uber-gushing, over-anticipation of glory; and falling prey to over-hyping a young skater who still has miles to go and who is in need of much marinating and the chance to grow and experience life on and off the ice. My views are not a criticism of those who do see a lot to gush about in Polina. I just prefer to temper my enthusiasm. By the same token, however, I think some of your views, analia, are a bit overly harsh in the other direction. While Polina's speed to your eyes might not be quite as fast as Sotnikova's or Lipnitskaya's, I think Polina's speed is still good and any differences in that aspect are negligible since Polina covers the ice so well. In addition, Polina has other qualities in her favor that Sot and Lip do not possess, including very good overall packaging re costuming and music selection, extraordinary grace and artistic ability at her current age with so much potential for continued growth as an artist.

    Sot's artistic talents to me have been fairly wasted so far with borderline trashy costumes and poor music selection. Sot has also historically been inconsistent competitively, although that could change as a result of her Olympics success. I do enjoy Sotnikova's skating and her latent artistic range more than Lipnitskaya's. To me Lip's skating leans more toward tricks and acrobatics, plus Lip does not get good height on her jumps and she has technique problems on her jumps, particularly her 2-axel. I do think Lip's Schindler's List fp worked very well for her by maximizing some of her strengths and helping her to stretch more in an artistic direction, although I was not as impressed by Lip and her Olympic team performances as the judges and some fans seem to be. As far as Sotnikova winning the Olympics, oh well. It took place in Sochi, and Sotnikova was loaded for bear in the singles event (she obviously did not want to be left out of the Russian gold rush).

    Whilst Yuna performed solidly at the Olympics, she was just going through the motions IMO because of her stalwart character and patriotism. I would have preferred to see Mao capture the gold if she could have overcome the sp jitters. Mao was heavily penalized for her sp mistakes, but she skated the program of her life in the fp -- too bad it wasn't enough for her to reach the top of the podium. Meanwhile, we all knew Lip was being favored at first to at least make the podium and then it was "sky's the limit," for both Lip and Sot once the singles event started. As far as Pogorilaya, she looks nice on the ice (visually stunning), but her jumps always seem so labored; she doesn't have a great deal of speed and ice coverage either, at least to my eyes, and she has a long way to go artistically. ITA with you that the young Russians have an air of being more mature (but not necessarily more sophisticated), likely due to the hunger to succeed that seems bred in them due to the hardships many Russians face combined with their country's tradition of artistic excellence in skating and ballet.

    Kudos to Polina for being a "really happy carefree child" with huge talent. Yes, her personality is still developing but that doesn't mean she doesn't have one. As far as sophisticated Russians, I think both Elena Radionova and Polina (who is half-Russian) have unlimited artistic potential and both possess a precocious air of sophistication and self-possession, much moreso than Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya, and Pogorilaya, at least this is my impression/ perception.

    I agree with you in some respects, Karpenko, although I find Polina to be far from meek and inauthentic. She's still very young, and she's still learning, but that's to be expected in someone so young. Beneath her childlike mien, to me she seems mucho determined and disciplined. I think it will benefit her tremendously to be able to grow up and encounter many rich experiences and ups and downs that might help her to develop more depth as an artist. Perhaps that can happen if too much pressure and expectations aren't placed on her too soon. As far as being U.S. and World Champion this year, methinks that would be too soon, and I doubt that will happen. It would be cool to see Gracie Gold fired-up to take that mantle. However, what will be, will be.

    ETA:
    I think the premise in the linked article that Polina somehow had a chance to reach the podium at the Olympics was another error in understanding the sport of figure skating. Polina was quite lucky to make her senior Nationals debut in an Olympic year when 3 U.S. ladies spots were available. It was simply a coup in itself for Polina to be on the team and gain the experience. That's quite different from Tara going to the 1998 Olympics as the 3rd place U.S. lady, and more importantly, the defending World champion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014