Plushenko Wins Ninth Russian National Title

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Iceman, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,482
  2. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,880
    Oh, can't wait for the comments that will come out of that one... :scream: Remember people, all Nationals are inflated.

    Really great accomplishment considering many of the titles were won during the era of Yagudin, Urmanov, and Abt. :respec: Who else has won as many National titles in a relatively deep field? Kwan has 9 also.
  3. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    17,494
    Apparently those biased Canadian judges are very influential everywhere :lol:
    kwanfan1818 and (deleted member) like this.
  4. nubka

    nubka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    7,638
  5. Ninchen

    Ninchen Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    697
  6. JanetB

    JanetB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    2,522
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  7. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    25,850
  8. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,261
    It's amazing what he has done, it just shows you can still pull off quads and 3A's well into your late 20s and after countless surgeries. Plushy is awesome, it's so nice to have a skater who loves this sport so much.

    Take that to the haters :D
  9. ChelleC

    ChelleC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,437
    The Russian Federation always preferred Plushenko to Yagudin.
  10. Moka-Ananas

    Moka-Ananas Man's Ruin

    Joined:
    May 1, 2010
    Messages:
    4,207
    because he can :cool:
  11. VALuvsMKwan

    VALuvsMKwan Wandering Goy

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2002
    Messages:
    4,985
    Like a dog that can lick its own privates? :rolleyes:
  12. Lavergne100

    Lavergne100 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    12
    The absolute confidence that he exudes while skating is incredible. You can just feel that he KNOWS he can pull off incredible skating. I love Evan, so please don't take offense, but the fact that EP literally did NOT skate competitively for four years and still did so well at the last olympics, spoke volumes to me. Wow! I'll be glued to the tv if he's in the competitive mix again. I've missed him.
  13. Lavergne100

    Lavergne100 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    12
    EP is one of my favorite male skaters. I love the artistry of Weir, but also love the absolute total confidence of EP's skating. Quad, triple, double combos are extremely underrated. He's an unreal athlete and such a charismatic skater on the ice...PS: I liked Dick Button as a commentator. Why isn't he on tv anymore? (It seems like I only hear him at the Olympics or something...??)
  14. Doubletoe

    Doubletoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,602
    Three thoughts: (1) Gee, I really needed to hear this music one more time! :rolleyes: (2) Ever try holding a landing edge? (3) If the tech specialist gave Plushy credit for the two jumps he did after landing the 3Lz, doing a LFO 3-turn, then putting the right foot down, I am going to personally go to Russia and strangle him/her.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  15. mmmmss345

    mmmmss345 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Messages:
    169
    Come on, like him or not, but to skate like that after so long without competing is awesome.
  16. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    17,494
    It hasn't been *that* long.....
  17. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,759
    He's never been my cup of tea. But...

    --I think he's part cat. Which seems an unfair advantage.
    --If he skates clean with quads and Chan does his zamboni butt thing at Worlds and beats him...the proverbial stuff will hit the fan from the Russian fed.:watch:
  18. Garden Kitty

    Garden Kitty Tranquillo

    Joined:
    May 26, 2002
    Messages:
    25,018
    I don't particularly care for his skating style or most of his programs, but this is a sport that takes a real toll on people physically and emotionally and I definitely admire his ability to compete at a top level for so long. He's definitely a star, and skating is always better when it has strong stars and personalities.
  19. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Messages:
    3,857
    I agree. Good for him. He is good for the sport, and therefor I am glad for his success today. I'm also glad Voronov is back. I don't know why I like the kid-even with that hideous costume. But he has really pretty eyes and a lovely body. Glad he had a good day.

    Tried to watch both Plush and Voronov's FP, and managed most of V's but had to give up after Plushy's great jumps. Got bored...sorry.
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  20. reflect

    reflect New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    55
    Russian Figure Skating Championships
    1997 Moscow Ilia Kulik Alexei Urmanov Alexei Yagudin
    1998 Moscow Ilia Kulik Alexei Yagudin Evgeni Plushenko
    1999 Moscow Evgeni Plushenko Alexei Yagudin Alexei Urmanov
    2000 Moscow Evgeni Plushenko Alexei Yagudin Alexander Abt
    2001 Moscow Evgeni Plushenko Alexei Yagudin Alexander Abt


    1999:
    1999 Russian Nationals Evgeni Plushenko LP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0jFij67_KQ
    falled on the first jump

    1999 Russian Nationals Alexei Yagudin LP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOYoJKMBxeE&feature=related
    falled on the second jump and 1-2 other small mistakes.

    can't find SP for both


    2000
    Evgeni Plushenko 2000 Russian Nationals - LP Gypsy Dance
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbpjPPyWARI

    I cann't find Plushenko's SP and Yagudin's program on youtube but I have the videos. Yagudin had a step out in SP and doubled one quad or triple in LP. Plushy is fine with SP and doubled in LP but had a 432 in beginning.


    2001
    PLUSHENKO 2001-RN_SP_Boleromarks(NTV)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OUe9F0SDjQ

    No LP available on youtube but video shows he did 4T and 4T-3T-2Lo

    Alexei Yagudin 2001 Russian Nationals Revolution Etude
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZSZv7NDQMU

    Alexei Yagudin 2001 Russian Nationals LP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ4_O7wbKjI


    JMHO, according to the video, I don't think plushy win RN since 1998 till...maybe 2005? because of Russian Federation's preference.

    BTW, haven't seen this year's RN yet, but according to the score, seems Plu may rob Authur's medal because of Russian Fed's preference:lol: if anyone can tell me did he rob it from authur?
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2011
  21. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,352
    :plush: :kickass:

    Still has quad and 3A ability!
  22. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,261
    I miss Dick Button commentating too, he used to commentate when abc/espn had figure skating but they no longer have figure skating on those channels for major events.
  23. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Messages:
    15,100
    You can put away your passport. That jumping pass was assessed as a 3L+SEQ and received almost all -2 GOE from the judges. :rolleyes:

    Protocol (link courtesy of caseyedwards)
  24. nubka

    nubka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    7,638
    Nah, groping and licking are two different things. The dog would have to be much more limber... :p
  25. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,172
    Good for him. Like him or not, trying for *another* comeback, complete with quads and what is still a fab 3 axel, is ballsy.
  26. skaterdelight

    skaterdelight New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2002
    Messages:
    145
    I loved those golden years of Russian men skating - strong, athletic, expressive and artistic. Not to mention Honda, Stojko, Candeloro who had such striking personalities as well.
  27. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    462
    IMO, Program Component Score of 93.66 (from a low of 9.0 to a high of 9.75) was a 'little' high. :slinkaway
  28. Spazactaz

    Spazactaz New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,812
    His transition score is too high, haha.
    But he's still amaaaazing! Still one of the best 3As! Great performer, great confidence.
  29. shuilee

    shuilee New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,166
    Plushy in 2012 reminds of Kwan in 2005. It's just same old same old and judges may get tired of his transition-less skating.

    I'm hoping the international judges will give him a rude awakening with fair PCS marks (mostly 7's for SS/PE/CH/IN with 6's in Transition), much like what Kwan got in 2005.
  30. senorita

    senorita New Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,945
    Programs look rough although he might have added a transition (or two) since Vancouver, his marks were not connected to international reality but his levels look decent , he looks happy , I m not thrilled with the music choices but how can someone have a surgery and throw after some months that 3axel in sp is beyond my comprehension.
    And of course he keeps skating while platinum.
  31. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Messages:
    15,100
    Have you read the criteria for PCS? The only category in which Plushenko should receive anything less than 8's or 9's is Transitions.
  32. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2001
    Messages:
    8,603
    What? Did YOU read the criteria?
    HisWeirness and (deleted member) like this.
  33. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    9,818
    It's amazing that Plushy still can do solid quads and 3A. That's at least an 11 years span and he still has those jumps. His programs still have too much posing and lack enough transitions though; He'll lose in that portion against Chan and Evan.

    I think he should leave out the catch-foot camel. He just doesn't have the flexibility to make that move look good.
  34. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Messages:
    15,100
    Ok, then please explain to me how, based on the stated criteria, you think that Plushenko deserves 7's or less for SS, PE, and IN.
  35. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,539
    Regardless of what his score was (it's nationals at any rate) he deserved to win!

    I'm very happy for him and his fans!
  36. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    462
    Based on the criteria:

    5 = Average
    6= Above Average
    7= Good
    8= Very Good
    9= Superior
    10= Outstanding

    Do you think that this free skate was more polished and better skated than Evengy's 2010 Olympic free skate? Evengy's PCS in his Olympic Free Skate was 82.80 (which is considered Very Good). Do you really think that this unpolished free skate deserved PCS scores that ranged from a low of 9.00 to a high of 9.75 (i.e. Superior)?
  37. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Messages:
    15,100
    Please point me to the PCS in which "polished" is one of the criteria.

    This is what you get with IJS. There is really no measure of the overall impression of the program - the total is the sum of the parts. And based on the criteria for each program component, I really don't see how Plushenko should receive marks of anything less than 8's except for transitions.
  38. senorita

    senorita New Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,945
    he doesnt have anymore the flexibility of Hanyu but at least he doesnt drop the leg from the camel to catch his foot like a bunch of ladies and most men do which is worse to watch.
    He would lose to Chan and some more I can think of, but at this point Plushenko has the edge over Evan, at least he showed up at his nationals.:)
    Cherub721 and (deleted member) like this.
  39. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    12,772
    A poster in the RN thread said that she/he would have had Plushenko behind both Gachinski and Voronov (silver and bronze). Plush apparently lost to both in TES but won on PCS.

    Those were my favourite years for men as well, beginning with Urmanov and what I saw of Petrenko in retrospect.

    I fell in love with Plush when he skated his gypsy program at Worlds - and mucked up the jumps very badly as Mishin screamed. I loved his 'Carmen' as well, and he had a few other masterpieces. But the passion and excitement of his skating in the early part of his years waned when he became top man in the world. His 2006 Olympic title was a coronation - there was no competition - and his Godfather was skated in a cold, calculated manner - without passion and excitement.

    His performance in 2010 and now, at RN, certainly testify to his talent and competitive spirit. But he's certainly past his peak and no longer has the ability to "bamboozle the audience with his arms" (as said by Dick Button). His skating looked laboured and slow to me in comparison to his better day. And again, lacking in the passion and excitement. IMHO, anyway.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  40. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,539
    I think you are forgetting this is NOT the Olympics, this is Russian Nationals. The scores are ALWAYS a tad eschew. :shuffle:

    Are you debating his scores or the win?