Plushenko will skate in ISU competition on October 2nd, 2010

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by let`s talk, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Sally1214

    Sally1214 New Member

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    Great post. This thread has been quite entertaining. :)

    IMO, IF Evgeni wants ... and is in top competitive form ... to compete in Sochi, the ISU will be more than "ready to consider restoration the amateur status" and will fall all over themselves to "take exceptional decision about restoration."

    The ISU aren't complete fools, are they? A FULLY COMPETITIVE Plushenko in Sochi would mean nothing but huge $$$$$$$$ in so many ways. Nope, they are not that foolish.

    Personally, I have serious doubts as to whether Plush can be competitive at the grand old age of 31 .. but, then, again, I (to my great shame) doubted that he'd be able to come back for Vancouver. Sorry, Plush. :duh:

    I don't think Plush has an inkling of interest in competing in the intervening seasons; but, IF he's ready and able to compete in Sochi, oh yeah, he'll be there.
  2. SUN

    SUN New Member

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    1. Plush requested permission from his Federation(which was given but withdrawn later) for ONLY 2 shows (in Moscow and St.Petersburg). As for the shows in Europe (France, Sweeden, etc) he even did not bother to ask permission from his Federation. All this is described in the press release of the RUS Federation published after his disqualification.
    2. Basically 2 approvals are needed to participate in the shows:
    1. The show (as the events as a whole) must be approved by the Federation of the country on which territory it's held or by the ISU.
    2. The participation of specific skaters must be approved by their respective Federations.

    I was told that usually it's done in the following way:

    E.g. Kawaguchi/Smirnov requesed approval from the RUS Federation to participate in the show in Japan. The RUS Federation approved it, but before that they also requested info from the Japanese Federation if the show itself was approved by them.
    In such way the skaters are protected from possible sanctions.

    Plush went to the shows in Europe without asking approval from his Federation, which is already a violation (but which allows reinstatement) and not even informing them. And the RUS Federation in this case had no idea if the shows were approved by the Federations of the countries where the shows were held.
  3. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    No. And you can send me a PM if you wish to discuss this further.
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  4. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    There are three conditions in the ISU rule under which Plushenko was deemed ineligible. The first one (i) is about individuals, i.e., whether a particular skater was not given permission by his/her Federation to skate in a member- or ISU-sanctioned event. This is the one for which the skater can apply for reinstatement.

    The second two (ii and iii) are about whether the events themselves are ISU- or member-sanctioned, and if a skater or official participates in an unsanctioned event, there are no avenues for reinstatement. This would include all participants in that event (ISU) or all member participants in the event (Federation), regardless of whether the skater had competed in 12 ISU-approved events before it.

    If the ISU didn't sanction KOI as an event, then Plushenko, Weir, and Joubert would have been in the same boat. The only way that Plushenko would have violated iii, but not Weir or Joubert would have been if the Russian Federation did not sanction KOI, but USFS and the French Federation did.

    That did not happen. The Russian Federation revoked permission for Plushenko to skate in a member-approved event. (And then, as SUN noted, didn't even get an application for other shows.) Hence violation of i, not iii.
  5. angietang

    angietang New Member

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    You must be responsible for your insulting PM to me, man!
  6. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    No in the case of an unsactioned event, the problem is not the skaters but the event itself, that is what i meant:)

    I guess since they called him in the middle of KOI practice in Moscow(it is in a fan's video) to tell him we dont give you permission afterall to skate there, I doubt after all that he would think to apply for approval for the future shows that were later in April, probably he knew about ISU decision before we did:watch:

    Sato in the gala? :)
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  7. let`s talk

    let`s talk Banned Member

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    Who said anything the opposite in OP? Learn to read. For a start. Then, post. DL::drama:
    The ISU and Cinquanta obviously forgot to aks DL and other Plush :EVILLE: haters. That mob knows better than ISU.

    Seriously speaking, I personally never doubted that the things will end up like that: if HE wants, the positive result of paper job from the Russian FS Federation and ISU will be granted. Basically, it is all up to him, no matter how much his "fans" puff and nuff pathetically.:nopryde:
    True.:40beers:
  8. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    ISU and Russia will pray that Plushenko stay healthy and skate in Sochi, imagine how interesting will be menĀ“s event with Plushenko competing in his fourth Olympics. A lot of people will buy tickets only to see Plush skating, what audience will have the TV channels, the forums! :watch::watch::watch:
  9. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    Wading in ...
    A lot of people will tune in to see the Olympics, but it won't be to see Plushy skate. I may be in the minority, but I don't care to see him skate competitively again. I can just imagine the inflated scores he'll get and then some because of him skating "at home" and I'm sure it will surpass the marks that were "handed" to Chan when he skated at home. Should Plushy be competing in Sochi, I won't be watching him. I enjoyed him in his earlier years, but he now leaves me thinking "meh".

    The ISU will do what is best for them in regard to $$$ so I can see them finding a means to allow Plushenko to become eligible again - regardless of what made him ineligible. It's all about the money.

    Personally, I'd like to see Plushenko stay away from jumping on the ice, get healthy and enjoy his family with some other kind of work (like maybe coaching or something). Best wishes to him regardless.
  10. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    ah well, it was about time:rolleyes:
    V
    V
    V
  11. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    See? You already have a reason to watch him, you'll find out if you were right and Plushy's marks were more inflated that Chan's!!!! :watch:;)
  12. SUN

    SUN New Member

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    The same press release states that Plush was informed that the permission for his participation was revoked 4 days before the first show.
  13. SUN

    SUN New Member

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    For the event on the territory of France the approvals for the EVENT from USFSA or RUS Federation are NOT valid.
    Only French Federation or the ISU can sanction the event in France (either one of them, not both).

    USFSA or RUS Federation must approve the participation of their respective skaters.
  14. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    yeah i didnt say a day, I said it was in the practices, they were practicing for KOI join number with Lambiel, wEIR and Joubert that day. There is an interview these days where he says he wouldnt withdraw from the tour at this moment and he talks about the fine and bad relations he got from AOI for withdrawing in prague in 2004. I guess it was his choice.
  15. JockProf

    JockProf New Member

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    Personally, I liked things better when a skater would go to their first Olympics to gain some experience & exposure, return 4 years later, possibly win a medal, and then move on.
  16. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    Does the ISU or any other governing body for a particular sport make any profit from the Olympics? I thought all the profits went to the IOC and the host city.
  17. nubka

    nubka Well-Known Member

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    Wow, impressive - you should be on The Psychic Network Channel... :cool:
  18. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, Joubert was at Worlds.:duh: So only Weir had to get permission from his federation, the USFSA. Well, he must have done that.
  19. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    That means there no scenario in which the event was not sanctioned (violation of iii, with no reinstatement), since all participants, Weir and Joubert included, would have been ineligible had that been so, not just Plushenko.
  20. tangerine_dream

    tangerine_dream New Member

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    This is figure skating. No one is trying to be creative. Everyone is trying to please the stuffy old judges. Everyone skates the same program, and have done so since forever.

    A few extra arm flails and pained facial expressions don't change the fact that virtually all programs from skater to skater, year to year, and even gender to gender, are virtually one and the same.
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  21. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    just not direct profit;)
  22. let`s talk

    let`s talk Banned Member

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    His new interview has been published. They are going to start the required paperwork but he is not planning to skate in RN, in Euro and Worlds this season. He wants to rest. He is going to get his eligibility back by the next season and he is planning to skate in Sochi. He has been operated in Germany and now he is going to make new programs. As a non-member of the Russian national team, he will have to pay for everything by himself (skating rinks, etc.). He also explained what happened with his loss of eligibility: the skater with his status is supposed to go to the worlds to win. At that moment due to his health issues he couldn't jump quads, so he decided not to go. At the commercial shows he didn't have to jump quads, the physical requirements were much lowerer. Moreover, the tickets for the shows had been sold out months in advance. He had certain obligations to skate. Once he already had a similar situation when they forbade him to skate in two shows in Prague with 14,000 audience. Many people, after finding out that Plushenko would not skate, returned their tickets. He is still in lawsuits with the Czech and Swiss producers of those shows. He said he was the first skater who lost eligibility not for doping but for breaking some rules. Usually skaters got a warning for similar violations. He sees the direct connection with his comeback to OG and in big sport, the thing that wasn't welcomed by his competitiors. (from fsnews.ru)
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  23. LadyNit

    LadyNit moving right along Staff Member

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    I hope Eddie Marton was playing his :violin: in the background during that sob story. :drama:
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  24. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady Well-Known Member

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    You assume that Piseev and Company want him back. Considering that he supported Anton S. in the recent elections, and the RFSU withdrew it's sanction for Plushenko's shows in the first place, what makes you think Piseev will OK an application for reinstatement?
  25. angietang

    angietang New Member

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    It is simply great that you have summed up the true features of the figure skating sport! :respec:
  26. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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  27. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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  28. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Putin is more powerful than even Piseev, and if Putin wants a three-time, never-lower-than-silver Olympic medalist headliner for Sochi... (Has any other post-War skater achieved that?)
  29. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady Well-Known Member

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    You underestimate Piseev.
  30. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady Well-Known Member

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    You underestimate Piseev. He's been around a lot longer that Putin and he's survived being fired.
  31. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    :lol:
  32. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    The ISU stands to profit from anything that gives skating a higher visibility and more attention overall, because that eventually translates into better TV contracts. I think the individual sport governing bodies like the ISU may not get any revenue from the Olympic Games themselves, but they do stand to profit directly from the ISU events Plushy would enter between his reinstatement and Sochi, like Europeans & Worlds 2013 (or even earlier).
  33. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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  34. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    And you're rolling your eyes at me because??? And what does a column of "V"s signify?

    I really believe it is all about how much money the ISU can bring in and has been pointed out, "many will come to see/watch Plushenko". If it's not about how much $$$ will be generated if the hometown hero skates, then why would such a comment be made. Should Plushy skate, I'm sure many will pay to see such and many will watch it on TV and increase ratings. So where does all this $$ go? I'm betting the ISU will get their cut and it will be a bigger one if Plushy skates than if he doesn't.

    I get that you are a big Plushenko fan; I never was a big one but I did enjoy and appreciate him early on but not any longer.

    Somehow I knew that some would zero in on just the part where I talked about the money and totally skip over the part where I wish he would choose another path in life - like getting his body completely healthy and enjoying his family.
  35. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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    and I wore all that makeup to make me look younger and prettier. :p
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  36. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    Good heavens, I wonder why you bother to watch at all :lol:
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  37. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    LOL!!!:rollin: And what song do you think Marton will play for Plushy in Sochi (if they reinstate them)???????? :puppet:
  38. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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  39. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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  40. Sarahjev

    Sarahjev New Member

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    Don't worry, I'm sure many took note about your good wishes for Plushy (I did), but, you know, it's saucier to talk about the ol' dirty money ;)

    Once again, nice are your wishes regarding Plush, but, you know?, there are people who actually need something else to feel their lifes fullfilled, they need the thrill, the adrenaline, the competition to feel really alive. I think Plushenko is one of those. He had overcome many difficulties in his life to reach the place where he is, he had been fighting with poor health conditions since his chidlhood, but he also has a will of steel.

    He had just recently declared in an interview that somehow he feels good about the Vancouver 'lose' because there's still a dream for him to pursue.

    I think it's a bit unfair for Figure Skaters in general that their competitive life is so short, basically they are past their prime at 25!, while other sportsmen and sportswomen can reach forties...... but that's life.

    Now, I am a fan of Plush, and I also wish the best for him, health and happiness, but, what if he feels he still can do it?, as long as he is not wasting his body too much, I respect his decision and truly hope he can actually make it (can't say the same about haters however :D)

    He has proven many times that he can overcome barriers, have anyone seen him here?:

    [​IMG]

    From past weekend show in China, he's Biellmanning (or half-Biellmanning) at almost 28!, please, some of you may not like him, but anyone should accept this is something noteworthy.