Plushenko will skate in ISU competition on October 2nd, 2010

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by let`s talk, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Moxie

    Moxie New Member

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    The event in question was Kings on Ice. It didn't need a sanction because it wasn't a competition. Only things that involve judging require sanctions, otherwise they don't apply.
     
  2. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    Right. The rule he violated was para (i) "skating or officiating without the prior express authorization...". (Actually, he did request and get the authorization from his federation, but they withdrew it after the ISU started pressuring them.)

    From ISU Communication 1622:
    "Based on evidence presented the Council has concluded that Mr. Evgeny Plushenko breached the ISU eligibility rule 102, paragraph 2, i) of the ISU General Regulations and as a consequence has become ineligible under paragraph 7 a) of that rule."

    If the ISU wanted to argue the Kings shows violated (iii), then they'd also have to kick out Weir & Joubert, and they obviously haven't.
     
  3. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    Weir and Joubert didn't withdraw from World's citing injury.
     
  4. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    Sure, of course he did, why argue:watch:...
    by the way, ISU's opinion is that he violated rule i). And FYI KOI is not unsactioned event.

    ISU in their communication say the violation was rule i, regardless of why or what he skipped, he didnt have permission for skating but the show was aprooved. If KOI was unsactioned (iii) Joub and Weir and all eligible skaters would have problem as well, regardless of what they did in worlds.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
  5. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    BittyBug and (deleted member) like this.
  6. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    This is the best post by far:rofl:
     
  7. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    It's the ISU's opinion that matters at this point. And besides, if he really wanted to skate in eligible competitions, he would have dealt with this via an appeal. But he didn't. An Olympic Gold and two silvers isn't a bad career. Take the mullet and run...
     
  8. angietang

    angietang New Member

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    What you meant is that, because of violating some ISU rule, Plushenko's amateur status as a singles skater can never be reinstated? Has he ever taken any drugs at earlier competitions? It is illegal to make him retire in this way, IMHO! I don't think he will be banned from participating in 2014 Olympics to be held in his home country if his body can still stand up to the hard intensive training in the coming years. Nevertheless, I highly doubt its possibility.
     
  9. Kelleys6th

    Kelleys6th Active Member

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  10. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    LOL. No, it isn't illegal to make him ineligible. He knew the rules, and he went outside of them. Just because the Olys are in his home country doesn't mean he should be allowed back in. Should Yags be allowed in? What about Brian Boitano? Drugs has nothing to do with it.
     
  11. Sarahjev

    Sarahjev New Member

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    Just delurking to comment on this :)

    Ok Jayar, we get it. If the decision where in your hands, Plush will NEVER EVER put a skate on a competition rink again ;)

    I must tell you Cinquanta has a different opinion:



    ISU ready to consider restoration the amateur status of Plushenko

    President of the International Skating Union (ISU) Ottavio Chinkvanta said that ISU is ready to consider the possibility of restoring amateur status for Evgeni Plushenko.

    "Sportsman had 21 days to appeal, but he did not do that. If now the National Federation guarantee for him, then we can take exceptional decision about restoration."



    source in Russian:
    http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-skating/72819071.html



    As you can see, The ISU is playing the "nice guy" role here, speaking about an "exceptional decision" even when it's not necessary because, as senorita has stated, Plush can actually ask for restoration whenever he wants, he broke the "i" part of the rule, not "ii" or "iii". The ISU will decide if he get it back of course, and, according to Cinquanta, seems like he and his National Federation just need to ask for it.


    And yes, the retired skaters you sarcastically mentioned could try to comeback if it's their desire, are not permanently banned and meet the requirements, wich for age and health reasons, I'm not sure will be possible (not everyone can do a "Plushenko" and make a succesful comeback after retirement ;))

    And "Two silvers and one gold" are certainly "not a bad career", it's actually an awesome and exceptional one, he's in the company of a very few in the same conditions in FS history.

    Plush is not banned for life, get over it, he's "indefinitely" ineligible, which means he could have his status restored by one, two years...... or by tomorrow.

    As you said: "It's the ISU's opinion that matters at this point" :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  12. angietang

    angietang New Member

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    It is legal to make him ineligible for some time, but it is absolutely ILLEGAL to make him retire in this WAY! Are you one of the ISU officials laying down such rules? You'd better not LAUGH TOO ERALY!
     
  13. VALuvsMKwan

    VALuvsMKwan Wandering Goy

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    Is this Esta, or perhaps one of her kids? :wideeyes:
     
  14. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    Nobody is making him retire. He can skate as long as he wants. Just not in ISU competitions.
     
  15. angietang

    angietang New Member

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    You are kidding me... :rofl:
     
  16. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Joubert and Weir got permission from their federations?
     
  17. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    Joubert went to World's. He won the bronze. Weir didn't compete, but I don't remember what the story there was.
     
  18. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    No, and I'm kind of done trying to argue with a wall.
     
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  19. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    No. whoever said that misunderstood the rule or the circumstances. Yes, Plushenko can apply and be considered for reinstatement.

    Yags and Boitano have both violated papagraph (ii) by skating in unsanctioned competitions, so no, they cannot apply for reinstatement. Just to complete the set, nor can Urmanov or Kulik apply for reinstatement.

    Weir just said he wasn't prepared for Worlds and didn't want to go (not very different from Plushenko, really). All 3 skaters requested and received permission to do the Kings shows. The only difference is that the ISU was pissed at Plushenko and pressured the Russians into withdrawing the permission. I guess they simply didn't care about Weir.
     
  20. angietang

    angietang New Member

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    To argue with a wall? :confused: Are you an idiot?
     
  21. Sally1214

    Sally1214 Active Member

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    Great post. This thread has been quite entertaining. :)

    IMO, IF Evgeni wants ... and is in top competitive form ... to compete in Sochi, the ISU will be more than "ready to consider restoration the amateur status" and will fall all over themselves to "take exceptional decision about restoration."

    The ISU aren't complete fools, are they? A FULLY COMPETITIVE Plushenko in Sochi would mean nothing but huge $$$$$$$$ in so many ways. Nope, they are not that foolish.

    Personally, I have serious doubts as to whether Plush can be competitive at the grand old age of 31 .. but, then, again, I (to my great shame) doubted that he'd be able to come back for Vancouver. Sorry, Plush. :duh:

    I don't think Plush has an inkling of interest in competing in the intervening seasons; but, IF he's ready and able to compete in Sochi, oh yeah, he'll be there.
     
  22. SUN

    SUN New Member

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    1. Plush requested permission from his Federation(which was given but withdrawn later) for ONLY 2 shows (in Moscow and St.Petersburg). As for the shows in Europe (France, Sweeden, etc) he even did not bother to ask permission from his Federation. All this is described in the press release of the RUS Federation published after his disqualification.
    2. Basically 2 approvals are needed to participate in the shows:
    1. The show (as the events as a whole) must be approved by the Federation of the country on which territory it's held or by the ISU.
    2. The participation of specific skaters must be approved by their respective Federations.

    I was told that usually it's done in the following way:

    E.g. Kawaguchi/Smirnov requesed approval from the RUS Federation to participate in the show in Japan. The RUS Federation approved it, but before that they also requested info from the Japanese Federation if the show itself was approved by them.
    In such way the skaters are protected from possible sanctions.

    Plush went to the shows in Europe without asking approval from his Federation, which is already a violation (but which allows reinstatement) and not even informing them. And the RUS Federation in this case had no idea if the shows were approved by the Federations of the countries where the shows were held.
     
  23. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    No. And you can send me a PM if you wish to discuss this further.
     
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  24. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    There are three conditions in the ISU rule under which Plushenko was deemed ineligible. The first one (i) is about individuals, i.e., whether a particular skater was not given permission by his/her Federation to skate in a member- or ISU-sanctioned event. This is the one for which the skater can apply for reinstatement.

    The second two (ii and iii) are about whether the events themselves are ISU- or member-sanctioned, and if a skater or official participates in an unsanctioned event, there are no avenues for reinstatement. This would include all participants in that event (ISU) or all member participants in the event (Federation), regardless of whether the skater had competed in 12 ISU-approved events before it.

    If the ISU didn't sanction KOI as an event, then Plushenko, Weir, and Joubert would have been in the same boat. The only way that Plushenko would have violated iii, but not Weir or Joubert would have been if the Russian Federation did not sanction KOI, but USFS and the French Federation did.

    That did not happen. The Russian Federation revoked permission for Plushenko to skate in a member-approved event. (And then, as SUN noted, didn't even get an application for other shows.) Hence violation of i, not iii.
     
  25. angietang

    angietang New Member

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    You must be responsible for your insulting PM to me, man!
     
  26. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    No in the case of an unsactioned event, the problem is not the skaters but the event itself, that is what i meant:)

    I guess since they called him in the middle of KOI practice in Moscow(it is in a fan's video) to tell him we dont give you permission afterall to skate there, I doubt after all that he would think to apply for approval for the future shows that were later in April, probably he knew about ISU decision before we did:watch:

    Sato in the gala? :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  27. let`s talk

    let`s talk Banned Member

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    Who said anything the opposite in OP? Learn to read. For a start. Then, post. DL::drama:
    The ISU and Cinquanta obviously forgot to aks DL and other Plush :EVILLE: haters. That mob knows better than ISU.

    Seriously speaking, I personally never doubted that the things will end up like that: if HE wants, the positive result of paper job from the Russian FS Federation and ISU will be granted. Basically, it is all up to him, no matter how much his "fans" puff and nuff pathetically.:nopryde:
    True.:40beers:
     
  28. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    ISU and Russia will pray that Plushenko stay healthy and skate in Sochi, imagine how interesting will be menĀ“s event with Plushenko competing in his fourth Olympics. A lot of people will buy tickets only to see Plush skating, what audience will have the TV channels, the forums! :watch::watch::watch:
     
  29. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    Wading in ...
    A lot of people will tune in to see the Olympics, but it won't be to see Plushy skate. I may be in the minority, but I don't care to see him skate competitively again. I can just imagine the inflated scores he'll get and then some because of him skating "at home" and I'm sure it will surpass the marks that were "handed" to Chan when he skated at home. Should Plushy be competing in Sochi, I won't be watching him. I enjoyed him in his earlier years, but he now leaves me thinking "meh".

    The ISU will do what is best for them in regard to $$$ so I can see them finding a means to allow Plushenko to become eligible again - regardless of what made him ineligible. It's all about the money.

    Personally, I'd like to see Plushenko stay away from jumping on the ice, get healthy and enjoy his family with some other kind of work (like maybe coaching or something). Best wishes to him regardless.
     
  30. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    ah well, it was about time:rolleyes:
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