Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by let`s talk, Sep 3, 2010.
OMG! Plushenko is Rod Stewart! PML!
Evgeni no longer needs permission from the ISU to do anything. They have taken his eligibility. If they feel his participation in future ISU competitions is to their advantage, and Evgeni feels it is to his advantage, they can negotiate that later.
Don't worry. Under the new judging system they all skate the same program over and over hunting for points. They just change costumes, music and get busy on the ice. Plush at least sent kisses while dancing tango, a sort of character.
Precisely! Wasn´t 2004 the first year when they used the new scoring system? Plush skates the same program until 2004 because he is older than other skaters but the youngsters still have plenty of time to use their programs over and over again.
Sorry guys, but Plush did it first!. They should add this to his Wikipedia page!
Are you still here?
This is the first: a Plush thread that I'm totally enjoying.
He lost his eligibility. He is permitted to skate in the Japan Open as a non-eligible, but he can't reinstate. There was a window of opportunity for him to appeal, and he did not. In June, Plushy skated in non-sanctioned shows which led to his loss of eligibility. He had 21 days to appeal, and he did not, so he is now ineligible. Allowing him to reinstate opens a (possibly good) can of worms in that they would have to afford others the same opportunity. This does NOT affect his ability to skate in the Japan Open.
I believe it has been posted that the rule that Plushenko lost his eligibilty over allows for a request for reinstatement. Appealing to the CAS the original ISU decision was not considered the best course of action. If you lost the CAS appeal and made the ISU spend the money made it less likely that you could get eligibility back if you would go back and request it.
I think you are confusing two different things. He basically waived his right to appeal to the CAS the ISU's decision to make him ineligible. He still has a right to request reinstatement, just like any other ineligible person who hasn't violated the nonsanctioned competition rule.
I would think the ISU would be thrilled at Plushenko's participation in the Japan Open, as he helps sell tickets and make money for the sponsoring federation. The whole reason the ISU made these rules was to keep star skaters working for them even after their eligible careers.
it is not that I read such misinformatrion here, it is that I read the same exact in the examiner blog, the guy there had not made any research, he took something like the above from a forum probably and made it an article.
Senorita, you should put the eligibility rule as signature!!!!!
An "open" competition means that both eligible and ineligible skaters may compete. This has nothing to do with Plushenko's ineligibility for the GP events and other ISU events. He's still out.
And for the record, Jeff Buttle is still eligible to compete in ISU events. He has done nothing that would cause him to lose eligibility, even though he has retired from competition. Unlike Plushenko, he could, if he so desired, return to ISU competition. Not that I think he's going to do so, but someone further up the thread said he's ineligble.
I'm trying to figure out who is on glue here... Plushenko has been deemed ineligible by the ISU. He waived his right to appeal. So, he is ineligible. He can ask for reinstatement all day long, but it's not just going to happen because he is Plushenko. If the ISU agrees to that, then they have to let all ineligibles have the opportunity to do the same. Why is that so difficult to understand?
Have you heard of google? Go out there and type in 'Plushenko ineligible', and you will find plenty of articles explaining the same thing. Back at you.
Yes I know google, have you heard of being polite ?
You irony fails me, sorry, I said that articles including examiner say that he is forever banned and bash him for not making appeal in CaS, clearly they have not read the rules.
oh and I see you are one of them.
If you want polite, go to www.ilovepuppies.com. This is FSU, and I'm as rude as they come.
But if you insist that Plushy still has an opportunity to be eligible, then please explain the rules for all of us... because I have seen nothing that would support what you keep insisting is true.
the rest here we have posted it and analysed it some months ago. Since you have still questions, ISU rule 103 paragraph 2, I guess you know google.
You mean this:
2. A person who is or has been ineligible may apply for reinstatement as a Skater only if such person had not violated Rule 102, paragraph 2 (ii) and (iii).
2. Definition of an ineligible person
A person becomes ineligible to participate in ISU activities and competitions by:
i) skating or officiating without the prior express authorization of the respective Member, in any capacity in a Skating competition, exhibition or tour in any of the sport disciplines of the ISU;
ii) skating or officiating in a competition conducted by Officials (Referees, Technical Controllers, Technical Specialists, Judges, Starters, Competitors Stewards, etc.) not on the approved list of the respective Member or on the ISU approved list;
iii) skating or officiating in an event not sanctioned by a Member and/or the ISU; or
iv) otherwise violating this Rule 102.
***He skated in a non-approved event, as per iii. Reinstatement is not a possibility.
The event in question was Kings on Ice. It didn't need a sanction because it wasn't a competition. Only things that involve judging require sanctions, otherwise they don't apply.
Right. The rule he violated was para (i) "skating or officiating without the prior express authorization...". (Actually, he did request and get the authorization from his federation, but they withdrew it after the ISU started pressuring them.)
From ISU Communication 1622:
"Based on evidence presented the Council has concluded that Mr. Evgeny Plushenko breached the ISU eligibility rule 102, paragraph 2, i) of the ISU General Regulations and as a consequence has become ineligible under paragraph 7 a) of that rule."
If the ISU wanted to argue the Kings shows violated (iii), then they'd also have to kick out Weir & Joubert, and they obviously haven't.
Weir and Joubert didn't withdraw from World's citing injury.
Sure, of course he did, why argue...
by the way, ISU's opinion is that he violated rule i). And FYI KOI is not unsactioned event.
ISU in their communication say the violation was rule i, regardless of why or what he skipped, he didnt have permission for skating but the show was aprooved. If KOI was unsactioned (iii) Joub and Weir and all eligible skaters would have problem as well, regardless of what they did in worlds.
A few hair plugs and a little longer in the front...and a little shorter in the back and he could go from mullet to something very contemporary:
This is the best post by far
It's the ISU's opinion that matters at this point. And besides, if he really wanted to skate in eligible competitions, he would have dealt with this via an appeal. But he didn't. An Olympic Gold and two silvers isn't a bad career. Take the mullet and run...
What you meant is that, because of violating some ISU rule, Plushenko's amateur status as a singles skater can never be reinstated? Has he ever taken any drugs at earlier competitions? It is illegal to make him retire in this way, IMHO! I don't think he will be banned from participating in 2014 Olympics to be held in his home country if his body can still stand up to the hard intensive training in the coming years. Nevertheless, I highly doubt its possibility.
SOI anounced Sasha today:
LOL. No, it isn't illegal to make him ineligible. He knew the rules, and he went outside of them. Just because the Olys are in his home country doesn't mean he should be allowed back in. Should Yags be allowed in? What about Brian Boitano? Drugs has nothing to do with it.
Just delurking to comment on this
Ok Jayar, we get it. If the decision where in your hands, Plush will NEVER EVER put a skate on a competition rink again
I must tell you Cinquanta has a different opinion:
ISU ready to consider restoration the amateur status of Plushenko
President of the International Skating Union (ISU) Ottavio Chinkvanta said that ISU is ready to consider the possibility of restoring amateur status for Evgeni Plushenko.
"Sportsman had 21 days to appeal, but he did not do that. If now the National Federation guarantee for him, then we can take exceptional decision about restoration."
source in Russian:
As you can see, The ISU is playing the "nice guy" role here, speaking about an "exceptional decision" even when it's not necessary because, as senorita has stated, Plush can actually ask for restoration whenever he wants, he broke the "i" part of the rule, not "ii" or "iii". The ISU will decide if he get it back of course, and, according to Cinquanta, seems like he and his National Federation just need to ask for it.
And yes, the retired skaters you sarcastically mentioned could try to comeback if it's their desire, are not permanently banned and meet the requirements, wich for age and health reasons, I'm not sure will be possible (not everyone can do a "Plushenko" and make a succesful comeback after retirement )
And "Two silvers and one gold" are certainly "not a bad career", it's actually an awesome and exceptional one, he's in the company of a very few in the same conditions in FS history.
Plush is not banned for life, get over it, he's "indefinitely" ineligible, which means he could have his status restored by one, two years...... or by tomorrow.
As you said: "It's the ISU's opinion that matters at this point"
It is legal to make him ineligible for some time, but it is absolutely ILLEGAL to make him retire in this WAY! Are you one of the ISU officials laying down such rules? You'd better not LAUGH TOO ERALY！
Is this Esta, or perhaps one of her kids?
Nobody is making him retire. He can skate as long as he wants. Just not in ISU competitions.
You are kidding me...
Maybe Joubert and Weir got permission from their federations?
Joubert went to World's. He won the bronze. Weir didn't compete, but I don't remember what the story there was.
No, and I'm kind of done trying to argue with a wall.
No. whoever said that misunderstood the rule or the circumstances. Yes, Plushenko can apply and be considered for reinstatement.
Yags and Boitano have both violated papagraph (ii) by skating in unsanctioned competitions, so no, they cannot apply for reinstatement. Just to complete the set, nor can Urmanov or Kulik apply for reinstatement.
Weir just said he wasn't prepared for Worlds and didn't want to go (not very different from Plushenko, really). All 3 skaters requested and received permission to do the Kings shows. The only difference is that the ISU was pissed at Plushenko and pressured the Russians into withdrawing the permission. I guess they simply didn't care about Weir.
To argue with a wall? Are you an idiot?
Separate names with a comma.