Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by let`s talk, Sep 3, 2010.
And you're very rude about it too.
Let´s not argue!!! To me it´s clear why Plushenko didn´t appeal, maybe other people, like AJ Skatefan , think it would have been better to do it.
I understand why Misskarne is angry, because despite the looongggg discussion about Plushenko´s reinstatement, some people keep stating that Putin will pay for his reinstatement , that he didn´t appeal because he is arrogant, etc. I can´t count how many times Senorita posted the rules and explained how Plushenko will get reinstated.
^thats why lately I put the rules as a message in my answering machine > prepared for the day he will be reinstated (aka the day of the Second Coming).
Is the back sit-spin more difficult to get same speed and low position, compared to forward sit-spin?
I thought men does spread-eagles (ie. Kulik/Goebel- spread-eagle into 3A)
and women does ina-Bauer? (eg. Shizuka Arakawa)
Which one is more difficult?
Yuzuru Hanyu also does Ina Bauer. Plushy also did spread-eagle into 3A. Nobody expects Plushy to do a Ina Bauer like Shizuka Arakawa but he could try. Probably he thinks that a Ina Bauer into 2A+3T is not manly enough!!!
Your point might be better understood if you didn't insult people while trying to make it. You lose your credibility really fast that way.
Sure you do!
Not as rude as those who immediately dismiss anything I have to say just because I'm a "new" figure skating fan.
So it's perfectly okay for "experienced" fans to insult the intelligence of "newer" fans but not the other way around? Because that's sure what it's looking like from here.
I believe so. It could be something to do with the favoured (stronger) leg. Of course, if you spread the training time across both legs, I suppose you could get both spins equal. My point there was that Plushenko's forward sit and back sit are both lower than they were last year, although his back sit is still a little higher than his forward sit.
Well, I just started Ina Bauers, and let me tell you, they're BOTH extremely difficult! Men can do Ina Bauers just like women can do spreadeagles.
I think sometimes a lot of people lose sight of what the Ina Bauer actually is when they see the dramatic laid-back position of Arakawa and co. The Ina Bauer is all about the edges and the feet, not about how far back you can bend Kulik and Abt both had very nice IBs (Kulik often did his into 3A or 3Lz) and they didn't bend over backwards at all. It still looked very elegant. I've never seen Plushenko do an IB (or Yagudin, for that matter) but I think, with the bend he still has in his back, he could do a slight laid-back position on an IB and it would look wonderful. Or he doesn't have to lay back at all, and it would still be great!
TBH I'd like to see more spirals in men's FS as well. One mistake I always thought Plushenko made when he was younger was that he always did the Biellmann spiral, but hardly ever did his arabesque, and his arabesque was absolutely gorgeous, all crisp extended lines and a lovely arch through his back. I don't know if he could still do it, I should imagine he could. (My favourite version of his arabesque is from his Artur Dimitriev debut of "Tribute to Nijinsky").
^ Now i feel old! Will youtube to check Dimitriev show which i ve seen 100 times! i dont remember Plu at all doin arabesque spiral (i remember Stephan!), in competitions???
and remember hardly the bielman spiral in competition, I remember the bielman spin only.
I'm sorry, I truely did not see anyone personally insult you because you are a new fan of FS.
My problem is that you often confuse opinion with fact and get a little over emotional.
BTW, Where did you see me post that I hate Plushenko?
Calm down. Plushy was re-instated and its all good.
Plush didn´t do arabesque spirals in competition, that´s why misskarne is disappointed, but he use to have Bielmann spirals in almost every program. Check Dimitriev´s show, he has a gorgeous arabesque there.
huh?he used to do bielman spin in every sp/lp, how was he doin spiral so frequently and I dont remember it, what kind of uber Am I?
(ok i just remembered Once upon a time in america and nijisky)
I ll check my dimitriev show vids for the 101th time.
2001 Worlds freeskate:
Bielmann spiral toward the end of the program. I was lucky enough to see this live. Amazing performance, a technical masterpiece. Brought down the house.
Senorita, check 2003 LP, St Petersburg 300 too, I'm sure he has Bielmann spirals .
He did bielmann spiral until 04/05 season. i think the last program with this spirals is Moonlight Sonata (but not in Godfather).
Then why do you think he should have appealed instead of following the route he's taking?
I disliked him back in the day, but I so hope he works things out to compete and gets a 2nd gold in Sochi. Just because. I just rewatched that 2001 LP and LOL when Peter described his *avant garde* footwork. Then it was avant garde and now it's well, many adjectives have been used and none particularly good. It really made me think about how confusing it must be for him to have been praised and rewarded for what now he's chastized when he's doing the same thing. I do think he and Mishin paid very close attention to what happend at Worlds in Moscow and will do whatever is needed for him to score well. Plushy II may have won bronze and has 3 seasons to better his results, but Russia doesn't want only one potential medal winner at Sochi.
^^Because going with ISU to Court would cause more Oh-Drama ?
Actually the only time I have followed a case of an athlete appealing to CAS was Raducan´s and it was MUCH more serious than Plush´s.
I never said he should have appealed. I really have no opinion either way. Just stating what happened. He chose not to appeal.
Plushenko did an arabesque in St Petersburg 300, but I don't think he had enough speed before he did it. He also did a tiny one in his DQ at Junior Worlds the year he won.
I had the same feeling when I was re-watching his GPF performance of StP300. The commentators were lavishing on the praise and he wound up with six 6.0s for that program. And yet now, he's Commentator Enemy No. 1 and people seem to think he doesn't still have it? I'm so confused about how this changed.
I think something a lot of people forgot was that his final outing under IJS, pre-comeback, was his Olympic LP and that was laid out very similarly to his 2010 Olympic LP. I don't blame him for being confused as to why the former won a gold medal (against a much stronger field!) and the latter wasn't good enough.
Plushenko has said himself that he might be borrowing a few ideas from what he saw at Worlds, not that I blame him because everyone else has been borrowing his ideas for the last decade! But I don't think Plushenko will be the only one at Sochi, thankfully. I was really impressed with Gachinsky's skate at Worlds too. He's matured a lot.
Yep, after the 04/05 season he stopped doing the spiral and spin altogether because of his back Now, however, he's started doing a half-Bielmann spiral in shows! and the spin on one occasion. I think he's planning on bringing it back! The boy is mad!
Japan Open 2010
5:00 1/2 spin
^ he stopped bielman because of groin injury and surgery, not his back. I was never thrilled for Bielman anyway but i adored the donut spin, unlike most ladies he didnt drop the leg to catch it and he could accelarate it, but after 2005 his donut was not a donut anymore, it became a polygon and slower.
I disagree that the field was stronger in 2006, all Plu had to do then is was not fall ten times which he did, I think the men field in Vancouver was much deeper and if they had skated to their best it would have been a massacre for the medals.
I think one of the differences is the emphasis on in between the elements. People like Chan and Dai are so very fluid and deliver such complete performances (Chan especially this year after including the quad, with his gorgeous relaxed style) that Plush looks like "the old style". Plush still to this day is one of the best jumpers around, and I would love to see him with the relaxed fluidity of some of the newer competitors (Javier, Amodio, Jason Brown) but I fear age is against him. Never the less, he will always be a legend in the sport, much more than Kulik and Yagudin (not dissing them at all, loved them both) IMHO. I would stand up and cheer if Plush came back with amazing programs and in betweens. I would love him to medal again, but only if he seriously deserved them.
Unfortunately Plush didn´t have enough time to adapt completely his programs to COP. If he had competed between 2006 and 2010 probably he would have been forced to do it and it would have been easier than now. The long break damaged a lot his skating.
I´ve watched some videos from 2008-2009 and it´s a huge difference between his skating back then and how he´s skating now in shows, so it´s clear that he´s improving. Probably next season we will see if his age allows him to make the next step to more fluid programs.
In your humble opinion, of course.
As I said straight after what you posted... your choice not to include that bit.
Ozzisk8ter DID say "in my humble opinion" (or do you not know what IMHO means?).
And I agree. As much as I love both Kulik and Yagudin to bits, Plushenko will probably be the one regarded as an all-time great. And he deserves such an epithet for mine.
That doesn't mean we don't regard Kulik and Yagudin as great skaters, because of course they are. I have still not seen a man today with a better jump technique than what Kulik has, and of course Yagudin and Plushenko are very much a part of each other's legacy to the sport, whether they like it or not.
Personally I think Plushy is quite capable of medalling in Sochi., Hes proved that hes capable of immense sacrifice to reach his goals. Hes determined to become a legend of figure skating, he wont make the same mistakes he made in Vancouver, mark my words. Hes too determined and the guys not stupid. Hes a joy to watch. I hope he beats the pants off Chan.
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