Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Feb 11, 2013.
You haven't looked at some of the "faking it" posts about Virtue/Moir at 4Cs, have you?
If your guess is true, he makes me feel terrible. The man who said it didn't know Joannie's situation at that time? Awful comment even if the person dislikes her
I've also seen a great deal more vigourous defence of V/M than I have of Plushenko.
Thanks for the video. The short version is that the commentator said he doubts Plushy's had the surgery since none of the Israeli clinics that had been asked, can locate him.
I don't think it's "can locate him". I think it's "refuse to locate him". The clinics aren't about to jump up and down and say "oh yes, Plushenko is here!". They have patient confidentiality to maintain.
If I were any clinic and whether or not Plushy were there, I'd ask what is your relation and if they said none or media, I'd say this is confidential. Likely what happened.
Yep. That's what I meant.
But it's rather stupid. Any journalist worth their salt would know that you can't just ring up a hospital and say you're looking for someone, and expect them to tell you...
Maybe 'the Israeli media' was masquerading as Queen Elizabeth or Vladimir Putin to ask for inside information of Plushy Middleton but failed. So they wrote there was no such operation and hospital and the Eurosport commentator has read about the story in The Sun.
You know, that incident was the first place my mind went when this all blew up.
There you go
Oh, thanks - I didn't think to use that spelling (for those who don't read Hebrew, the article spells his name as Plushchenko), so nothing came up when I searched. That explains it
They don't seem to find the whole thing suspicious, though. Did the local Russian-language media report anything of that sort?
I come cross this article which gives some possible explanations for the reason why Israeli bloggers try to spread the rumours.
Journalists shouldn't just be free to investigate, it's precisely their job to do so, to confirm the stories they report, to double check official statements, to draw their own conclusions. That's why journalist stories are meaningful.
Journalists aren't entitled to unrestricted access to every type of information. But since piecing informations up is an important part of a journalist job, they have their ways to do so, and they learn how to best protect themselves from breaking laws in the process (not that the process doesn't carry risks).
The Pope's (the pope's!) private letters and documents have been published in books and papers, and not a single journalist has had troubles with the law.
Being a public figure doesn't mean that confidentiality laws do not apply to you, but it certainly means that your privacy expectations should be lower.
Of course being a public figure is a choice.
If one doesn't like the high profile of what he/she does, then by all means may he/she feel free to do something else.
I think that's the core issue of this news.
A few days ago I was reading that the Sochi Olympics are going to be the most expensive in history. The piece went on saying that a few russian papers closed right after they wrote on how constructions and dumpings are conducted, saying things that were not along the lines of official statements (terrifying things).
Then I read Plushenko is taking a sports journalist to court, in a country that's known for not having a free press or fair courts, right before the Olympics.
These two piece of news together do not paint a nice big picture.
You are worried about Plushenko's privacy, I am most concerned about is the kind of life an average person has in a country with no free press and no right to justice.
I think Plushenko's not helping the issue, and I think that whatever reason he may have, or whatever case he may make are far less important than helping his country on the two most sore issues it has.
I didn't wish to comment in other other way on the case: I said that's less relevant than worrying about press and courts in Russia, in my opinion.
Plushenko could have ridiculed the journalist's work by simply producing a doctor note: "The guy had surgery".
A threat of any sort is less effective on the journalist's reputation, and unfortunately more harming under different points of view.
While discussing the specifics of why a country's press freedom declines, Trasparency International have mentioned in the past that law suits against journalists are a contributing factor. It doesn't really matter if the suits are legally sound, nor if they result in a victory/partial victory of the plantiff.
Law suits take time and respurces, laws are complex, results are often uncertain: all those reasons can scare journalists, even those that are trying to to their job at the best of their abilities and in good faith.
It's a matter of opportunity: in my opinion, lawsuits against journalists should be carefully pondered, and should be the very last resort in case of serious harm. That is even more true in the russian scenario.
I bet if you were in bed after disc surgery and someone even here anonymously called you a liar, let alone on eurosport , you would jump all over and wouldnt think how to save Russian's freedom of speech issues.. You sound like Plush is taking to courts any journalist who writes sth bad about him, and I m sure there are quite few journalists who do him no favor there. But thats not the case of freedom speech, he is a public figure, he has lots of sponsors, he is Sochi Ambassador and the said journalist was talking crap.
Channel 1 provided videos and interviews from doctors to prove Plushenko had surgery. But that does not prevent Zhurankov from saying in his opinion there was no operation. Plushenko is not the one destroying journalist reputation.
To point out defects on construction or corruptions and got banned is one thing, to slander a well known sportsman's reputation is another. If you think these two types of journalists are at the same level, you are insulting the real journalists.
Lawsuit maybe a bit extreme, but the whole thing is not Plushenko's fault. He is in a very difficult time and got stabbed from the back, maybe in your opinion he should just smile and allow himself bleeding to despair. Because he is a wealthy man and Russia has problem of free speech.
The comment was made after Plushenko and his wife made public various medical details. It is not their responsibility to provide these, or any other details nosy people are interested in. However, it was the responsibility of the person making the allegations that Plushenko was faking the injury to prove his case. Which he didn't. You appear foolish for suggesting otherwise.
For the last time: being a journalist is not free reign to publish or say anything you please about anyone in existence, famous or not. If you want to allege something happened, back it up with solid evidence. If you can't do that, don't be surprised if there are financial and professional consequences. People have a right to privacy and medical confidentiality - even famous people! - and this is something you seem blithely unconcerned about. The public does not have a right to know Plushenko's medical business. Period. Even if he does get public funding, government employees are paid from taxpayers' money, too - so what? Does did mean their rights should be waived?
I'm sure if you were in Plushenko's position, you'd be ever so understanding and ready to turn the other cheek.
And when a journalist writes obvious rubbish, that hurts all journalist everywhere. Where is your concern for the harm this journalist did by writing obvious garbage with pretty much no research behind it that makes it seem like journalists are liars who will say anything to sell their stories?
And I say that telling people in a country that has issues with a free press that they have to lay down and take it whenever a yellow journalist write lies about them because somehow this will help create a free press is naive at best.
In other words what you're saying is that Plushenko should let the whole issue drop just because there is no freedom of speech in Russia? A slanderous remark that reflects negatively on his reputation is unimportant in this framework? That's ridiculous.
So, since Plushenko is obviously going to win this case (he is Putin's friend) what will happen to the journalist?
He looses his job and has to pay thousands for Plushenko? Or even goes to jail?
I don't know if it was already posted here for this interview ... : http://www.sovsport.ru/news/text-item/587425
"The surgeon who operated Plushenko: The operation is called Eugene PR? I'm shocked!" - Translator google
In the article above the surgeon mentiones another patient - a diver Gleb Galperin. The name doesnt mean much to me, but am quite sure he was diving after the surgery . The doctor says Pluschenko has a 90% chance to recover should he follow the reccomrndations . He can start training off ice in march and 3 months after the surgery be back on the ice. The doctor couldnt predict whether Pluschenko will win in Sochi
During my years in research I spent a lot of time in the OR and if a surgeon was caught doing an interview while the patient was under waiting, it would have been an incident report. There were several occasions when the surgeon was late and the patient spent a long time under anesthesia, all resulting in incident reports. You really want to minimize the time under anesthesia.
Unless the reporter is literally walking with the surgeon to the OR while interviewing, this is rather
Galperin is a beautiful diver.
Plushenko said he doesn't need money, but thinks Zhurankov should learn that with freedom of speech comes responsibility.
Yes, he doesn't need money but is he still going to claim it?
Does it matter?
Seems to me like there's an awful lot of people trying to make Plushenko the villain here.
Yes it does matter because I am interested to know what kind of punishment the journalist will have? I don't know anything about Russian court system but I suppose it's pretty tough.
My opinion - the guy spoke way out of line, if he really thought P's surgery was a sham he should have investigated further before saying anything and if P wants to sue to defend his name then I think he should. Look, lots of folks have said lots of things that are not in praise of his skating and like most performers/competitors he let's most of it go by (as is right). But this is different. I support him absolutely.