Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    2,122
    202
    63
    Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil: (Olympic sports writer - Chicago Tribune and Los Angeles Times)
    https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/314436578569248768
    Translation: "Denis Ten won the World Championship" Right on, Evgeni .RT @EvgeniPlushenko: Денис Тэн этот Ч.М.выиграл

    -----------------

    Nick Zaccardi ‏@nzaccardi (Sport Ilustrated producer, Olympic sports writer....)
    https://twitter.com/nzaccardi/status/314371235565944833
    "Patrick Chan didn't win. His federation did." MT ‏@EvgeniPlushenko Победил не Патрик Чан,а его федерация по фигурному катанию!

    @maggiehendricks:
    @nzaccardi OUCH. That man has a way with words.

    @nzaccardi:
    @maggiehendricks Love his words. Never stop talking.
     
  2. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    2,122
    202
    63
     
  3. Wiery

    Wiery Well-Known Member

    1,872
    238
    63
    Well, the guy's allowed to have his opinion; I cannot say I necessarily agree with him, even though I am a devoted fan and do think Plushenko is an artist, especially his early skating when physical limitations/injuries did not effect his movement and training. I respect the hell out of Plushenko, but don't always agree with what he says.
     
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  4. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

    2,701
    287
    83
    Ahha... so do I.:D
     
  5. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

    3,930
    1,494
    113
    Respect is earned, not a given right for what you have achieved.
     
  6. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

    1,627
    163
    63
    I too enjoyed Plushy in his early days but artist .... he has never been - super athlete for sure. His jumps were a thing of beauty and the goal standard for others.
    Now Yags - he had the full package!
    Patrick has part of the package but is working on the full package hence the change in choreographer etc. Rather than resting on his domination he is seeling to expand and stretch his abilities much like Yags did before the Olys. He has my respect. Also respect the way he spoke directly to the crowd at the worlds and apologized for his bad performance.
     
    spikydurian and (deleted member) like this.
  7. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

    90
    8
    0
    I agree that the results on COR for VT is overmarked. I could not recall Plushenko or Mishin said anything to defend this. And COR is not Worlds, thank you very much.

    And antmanb, I know you are one of the most devoted Plushenko hater here, so I will not argue with you. What I pointed out in my post is that even if Plushenko implies Chan does not deserve to win, that is not the words he used. He disagrees with the results, not the skater. But of course, he is Plushenko, what he said is just nonsense to a lot of serious fans here.
     
  8. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    5,593
    1,859
    113
    V/T's scoring throughout this season has been more than generous, and CoR was especially ludicrous. I think that the politikking is set up very neatly for next year in three of the four disciplines.

    Also, Plushenko is not just a jumper. His style may not work for everyone, but there is more to him than just the jumps; he's a very good performer, for instance - and I am not surprised that he singled out the guys who did well in that regard at Worlds.

    :rolleyes: Ant does not hate Plushenko; he does have issues with ubers of any sort. I can identify.

    Also, if you say you're not going to argue with someone, don't argue with that someone.
     
  9. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

    90
    8
    0
    Sure, uber cannot have basic logic I know. I am not arguing with ant about his post, but to explain a bit more about my own intention. But I am a uber and without logic so just ignore me or laugh at me, no big deal:lol:
     
  10. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

    2,701
    287
    83
    Because if Patrick wins the SP, he is harder to beat in the LP.;)

    Agree! I love Yag's skating. Too bad about his injury ending his competition years.:(
    Yaya, I like Plushenko's Sex Bomb very much. I thought it most hilarious. :)
     
  11. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    2,122
    202
    63
    Plushyta is right.. You don't know anything, if you would be his fan or would follow him, you would know the truth. But what a perfect weapon against Plush!! right?;)
     
  12. michaelfsfan

    michaelfsfan Princess Glee (TM)

    10,279
    4,494
    113
    You know you shouldn't look, but there is a certain morbid fascination, isn't there? :saint:
     
  13. plushyta

    plushyta New Member

    47
    4
    0
    Different people, different tastes - for example, Weir thinks that Chan has no "artistry", while Plushy has..

    And when Plushenko did not deserve a medal? ... specifically, which competition?

    --------------------------

    And I do not know, why Plushenko's fans are disqualified in advance, to give objective comments? :eek:

    His haters are better? I dont think so - for example, they just throw their own opinion, as generally accepted axiom... by me, they write just to deliver its a negative label on Plushy...
     
  14. ciocio

    ciocio Active Member

    578
    38
    28
    Please! Could we just get rid of stupid cliches once for all, especially cliches invented on forums? Do you think Plushenko knows if he's an artist or a jumper, I bet that if you ask him, he'd say he's a figure skater.
    He said nothing about clean jumps but about clean performance and even I don't agree with him and I think Chan deserved the title, he has the right to express his opinion.
     
  15. just tuned in

    just tuned in Active Member

    719
    89
    28
    This was rhetorical. About how Plushenko always thinks he is the best at everything. If he falls, it is okay because [insert Plushenko's reason here]!:rolleyes:


    Thank you for sharing that information about Weir. I am not sure if I am surprised or not, that he prefers Plushenko to Chan. I like Weir as a skater -- and I don't mean to censor anyone -- but he, too, is very active on Twitter for someone who is not competing currently. For example, Weir bowed out of US Nationals this year because he said (paraphrasing) he was not in shape enough to win. Then, after Nationals, he said (paraphrasing) that if he competed, he would have done well.
     
  16. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    2,122
    202
    63
    I wrote in these pages not once. Maya Plisetskaya the most famous ballet dancer said about Plushy:

    Maya P.- He is our favourite. He is so good that it looks like nobody can beat him. I can't imagine who can be better. He is a master, a great master who does everything beautifully, brilliantly and artistically. Also, he always looks so confident that we, his fans, cannot be not confident. He skates like an artist who knows that he is the best. Other skaters think that they are good too, but they have doubts and get nervous. Plushenko on the contrary always knows that he is much better than others, and he convinces all of us in it. He not just "works" on ice, he dances on ice masterly, and that is a wonderful thing to see.

    E.S.- What do you think about his appearance?

    Maya P.- I think his appearance is fine. He is tall, striking, with a handsome body and long arms. He is not some cute guy from the postcard, thanks god he is not!, but he has the perfect face for the stage. The ice is the stage too.

    I think she knows what is the art...

    and I agree with Johnny...Chan does not express anything at face and body, he is a very good skater, but no more for me. I don't feel anything when he skates, he does not show emotions. In Chan is only "skating skills" as many people say. He skates with the same expression on his face from beginning to end of the program, and he deserves high marks for interpretation...????
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2013
  17. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    7,905
    1,409
    113
    Since you ask, I would have placed him 4th or 5th in Vancouver.
     
  18. just tuned in

    just tuned in Active Member

    719
    89
    28
    IMO, expression comes from the body, not the face.

    These are just my opinions, and yes, I prefer Chan (and Taka and Abbott and Buttle): When Chan skates, I hold my breath at the beauty of it. Not so much for Plushenko.
     
  19. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    5,593
    1,859
    113
    And how is this different from Chan?

    My impression is that even Chan's mistakes are used as evidence of his superiority - because they show how difficult his programs are! I believe that great skaters can make even difficult things look easy, and Chan often doesn't. FWIW, neither does Plushenko; the effort is always apparent. But he does make fewer mistakes than most skaters.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2013
    skateboy and (deleted member) like this.
  20. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

    1,627
    163
    63
    There is no question that Plushenko makes few mistakes but his choreography to me is wanting.
    So much easier to skate a program with less choreo than one that is choc a bloc with transitions and other choreographic twists, turns etc.He takes a long time to set up for his 'perfect' jumps.

    I nevertheless admire him for his consistency, beautiful jumps and the condition of his body ( for his age).
     
  21. bek

    bek Guest

    I guess many of us don't have the taste to appreciate the great art and performance qualities of Patrick falling all over the ice.
     
  22. GoGreen

    GoGreen New Member

    51
    9
    0

    Thanks for the quote! I didn't know Maya Plisetskaya thought so highly of Plushenko's performance. She is my all time goddess, I am actually surprised that she watches figure skating like the rest of us human being! :)

    In my mind, no one can be more qualified than Maya Plisetskaya when it comes to judging performance art.
     
  23. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

    31,195
    4,434
    113
    My opinion of Maya Plisetskaya's judgment suffered when she complimented Alina Somova & presented her with diamond earrings for a "brilliant" career. This takes it down a notch further. :(
     
  24. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    4,373
    918
    113
    I would suggest you do the same.

    As for what was "on the ice," well, I saw Chan's *ss on it (twice), as well as his hands... :shuffle:

    How many other winning Worlds performances can you say that about?
     
  25. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

    321
    39
    0
    It's so unfortunate that you only focus your eyes on that specific part of his body while he's skating.:shuffle: Have you noticed how long has that specific part touched ice out of 4 and a half minutes?
     
  26. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    4,373
    918
    113
    And it's unfortunate that you can't see that the Emperor has no clothes...

    Again, name a world championship winning men's performance with as many errors, please. You can't.

    I'm not a Chan hater. When he's on, there's no one like him. But this was a farce.
     
  27. JeffClair1979

    JeffClair1979 Scissoring Cizeron!

    424
    88
    28
    Holy crap, well that escalated quickly.

    I think everyone needs a big, heaping dose of simmer the F down. Half of the posts in this thread are people screaming about like a madman/madwoman instead of thoughtful, factual posts.

    While I appreciate the passion, I (and I'm not speaking for everyone) would rather read concise and intelligent conversations than direct insults to people in every 4th post. You can disagree with someone without being an ass about it...

    I don't think Chan deserved the win, but I also don't blame him for it, nor do I blame Skate Canada. I blame the judges, and I blame IJS, and I blame the judges for manipulating the IJS. Just like the "jumps aren't everything" arguments, transitions and skating skills aren't everything either. I believe Denis Ten had a better combination of technical and artistry when spread between the short program and free skate than Chan did. Regardless, I congratulate Chan on his 3rd world title, and Ten on an amazing achievement. And I hope that the next champion doesn't have a shadow like this hanging over his gold medal.
     
  28. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    2,122
    202
    63
    Well, this is matter of taste...If you mentioned Abbott I find him extremly boring...sorry, especially in this year. I'm sure if Plushenko wants to be like Abbott, he can be. The expressivity begins in this performance, look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO1DO2h6130 please,..maybe you will undertand what I'm talking about..


    Irrelevant..
     
  29. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    20,941
    3,818
    113
    Completely relevant: it speaks to judgement and taste.
     
  30. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    2,122
    202
    63
    If you haven't seen: two parts of a documentary 2006 Portrait of the star. Artist on ice 10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLcyg-KW3I0 and Artist on ice 11. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBqGEGsRigc with english subtitle. The speaker is Nikolai Tsiskaridze, he was principal dancer in Bolshoi. He is also a fan of Plushenko ;)