Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    That "a little more specific than others" made him look so stupid while others were not.;)

    Plushy team is still trying to figure out the transitions. Hasn't had time to learn to read protocols yet.:p
     
  2. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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    What a funny post.
     
  3. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    It says that there were two :EVILLE: :blocjudge :bloc: :judge: anti-quad activists on the panel who would have handed the gold to Samuel Contesti if they thought they could get away with it. :p

    Next question. :COP:
     
  4. bek

    bek Guest

    Yes but Plushenko fell once. He didn't fall twice and then have another big stumble/almost fall and the another double...The stumble was extremely distracting too.. A great performance IMO can withstand one fall. Nobody's saying you fall you can absolutely 100% never win.

    But what people are taking issue with is the type of PCS Patrick is getting with multiple errors in his program. And I'm sorry I have a hard time thinking politics isn't playing a role in this. Look at the kind of PCS hit other skaters get when they give bad programs...

    Its like one standard for Patrick another for others.

    Plushenko never won with that type of performance. And as for Plushenko losing the Olympics-what does have to do with anything. Plushenko's on record saying he doesn't see himself winning Olympic Gold this time. He's certainly allowed to have opinion though don't you think.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2013
  5. Dyu

    Dyu New Member

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    I don't think Chan to skate like a champion, but I don't think Ten deserves to be a champion either. He needs to improve himself in many ways.
    There're no shining prgms that night at Men's competition in London, so I have rather not give anyone the title. It's weird.. but anyway considering short program, I can accept the result.
     
  6. bek

    bek Guest

    How does Ten have to improve himself? Look, I think there are things that Denis has to work on, I don't know if I'd say its the best performance I've ever seen from a man. However, Denis is an absolutely wonderful skater. His skating skills may not be at Chan's level but they are extremely good. He has good spins, wonderful jumps landed a quad and (two triple axels that Chan didn't do.) And he gave very good performances. He would hardly be the worst world champion the sport has ever seen. He's really a beautiful skater.

    In the end it should be about who was the best at the competition. Not whose been the best in years past. Not who is the best in practice. But who skated the best that competition.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2013
  7. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm not sure it's a minority that agrees with Plushenko about this, many people are upset by this result, including me.

    I can't help but think that we would have better results if IJS remained the same, with one change (from the old 6.0 system): factored placements in the SP and LP.

    My idea: keep the scoring the same for the SP, adding up the points and all that. Do the same for the LP. But rather than simply adding up both scores together, take the factored placements from the SP (1st=0.5, 2nd=1.0, etc.) and the factored placements from the LP (1st=1.0, 2nd=2.0, etc.), add those up and we have a winner!

    It seems weird that someone can win based on the SP, especially when the same two skaters are the top two in both SP and LP. I like the idea of the SP being worth a third of the score, the LP two-thirds. Chan won the SP, Ten got second. Ten won the LP, Chan got second. Somehow (with the same two skaters duking it out), it seems like a win in the long should trump a win in the short. JMO.
     
  8. jjane45

    jjane45 Active Member

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    This. Either the current judging system is flawed, or the judges are not judging the way they should be. Heck, Salt Lake City was nothing compared to this. I am not advocating the return of 6.0, but COP needs some major tweaking before this explodes.
     
  9. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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    Seven pages of arguing based on the opinion of a man who declared himself the 2010 Olympic platinum medalist. It concerns me that he is still considered with enough respect to render his views worth mentioning. :rolleyes:
     
  10. made_in_canada

    made_in_canada INTJ

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    Nah, then there'd be yelling that he was overscored and shouldn't have won by such a large margin ;)

    Or maybe Canada has just embraced the system instead of fighting it? Chan maximizes his points. I don't really think you can fault a skater for studying the rules and finding ways to use them to his advantage. Plush could do the same if he wanted.

    You (collective chanflation supporters, not those I've quoted) can argue PCS all you want but then (as TonyWheeler pointed out) you also have to argue the inflated PCS for other skaters like Aaron, Joubert, Reynolds, Brezina and probably others if I bothered to look.
     
  11. query5

    query5 New Member

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    so why can' Chan skate.
    a fall free program at worlds, he seems to do it at his nationals more than one time. shows he can but worlds not so mucht
     
  12. MysticHaze

    MysticHaze Member

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    I wonder if the Chanatics have found any polyps while they are all up in there.
     
  13. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I think they were looking for the sun.
     
  14. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    He did not declare himself the platinum medalist. And he's one of the most accomplished skaters ever, and it's hardly a surprise his comments would be of interest to people. It concerns me that you feel your lack of respect for a skater means he should be ignored.

    This thread is all sorts of :watch:
     
  15. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Transitions are 1/5 of the Program Components score. Delivering the program with confidence covers a few bullet points in PE and possibly one of CH (use of personal and public space) and expressing the music is only one part of interpretation. Some notable misses apart from transitions were master of one-footed skating (outside the step sequences), mastery of multi-directional skating, and pattern and ice coverage.

    Transitions cover all movements from element to element and in and out of elements. Chan fell twice among scores of transitions in his program, a very low percentage.

    No, wiping out on the entrance to an element, in this case a jump, means no credit for the element in both systems (or at least was supposed to under 6.0), unlike Trankov falling after the element, and Plushenko was missing a jump pass in his 2004 Worlds FS. Missing jump vs. flawed landing by Joubert was not supposed to cancel each other out under either system.
     
  16. Glacier cat

    Glacier cat Member

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    Judges gave Plushy 5.0 for TR before. I think it is okay. After that he improved a little bit in that field. However judges always give Chan the highest SS, even when he skates badly. As if his skating skills are untouchable. But IMO this is a sport. So it would be better he should be given lower when he failed many times. IN - even when he fell a lot and broke beautiful musical movement, still he receives high score. And I feel like I left in doubt. PE - even when he fell a lot, judges see his Performance and Execution are perfect beyond all doubt. CH - even when he fell a lot, judges believe his choreography never spoil by many fallings. All components he gets always 8.50 or 9.00, even higher. But I think when someone lacks or broke something, the person shouldn't be given 8.5 or 9.5 like TR.
    I have been thinking like this. Also Todd posted his opinion like mine. I am a bit glad to know I'm not only one who could not understand Patrick's always-high PCS.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2013
  17. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Based on Plushenko´s own skating programmes I have gotten the impression that he (and perhaps other oldtimers, especially Weir) does not understand CoP programmes at all. So, his opinion of who should have won in any competition, is not something that means anything to me. :lol:

    In my opinion Chan had the most complex choreography and although he fell twice and had some other mistakes as well, he still deserved to win against Ten, especially considering Chan´s strong sp. And rightfully Ten won the freeskate. The result was veeeery close and if Ten had done one jump differently, he would have won!

    Yes, he got two 5´s in sp, he also got a 8.75 and a 8.00, the latter ones he did not deserve at all. In FS his transitions scores were between 6.00-8.75, and the higher ones he did not deserve for THAT programme. He also got two 9´s for the FS choreography (which choreography??:eek:).
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2013
  18. ItalianFan

    ItalianFan Member

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    So someone who has perservered in a physically very difficult sport until the unheard of age of 30, winning everything there is to win, does not deserve respect? Considering that he is one of the skaters with the most titles ever, I would imagine that he is considered a bit more expert in this field than all the sit-at-home critics on this forum.
     
  19. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Chan's SS mark not being affected by falls is a misperception, Glacier cat. Chan with no falls at Cup of Russia scored 9.46 on SS as opposed to 9.11 at Worlds and I could continue with his scores for the other components.
    That falls are not punished severely enough? Okay, let the ISU punish them more harshly but we might well see a situation where Takahashi with a fall or two finishes behind a clean Peter Liebers or Hanyu with falls finishes behind a clean Andrei Rogozine or Kostner with falls finishes behind a clean Meite and so on. Even Plushenko, yes, he has been a much more consistent jumper than the current generation of skaters but he is not a robot who has never ever fallen at all in his entire career and you don't know when falls can occur. What if Plushenko fell at the next Nationals and the Russian judges had to apply a much harsher international punishment for falls and Plushenko finished behind a clean Menshov? Menshov would go to the Olympics, not Plushenko, no?:lol:

    Plushenko is definitely entitled to an opinion about who should have won the World Championships, just like Todd Eldredge for that matter, but a person - no matter who that person is - writing on twitter that skater X didn't deserve to win without providing any detailed explanation or analysis to support his/her statement and other people blindly agreeing with that person is just bla bla to me, sorry to say this.
     
  20. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    I would be fine with them doing away with the short program
     
  21. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Plushenko, as someone who is 'respected' in the figure skating world, should support his opinion with at least a few dot points like why does he think so? Reasoned opinions are more enlightening than throw away remarks like he's bad, he's ugly.
     
  22. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Did Plushenko say that Chan himself is bad or his skating ugly? No, he didn't, and you know it. I think it would be a good idea to criticize things he actually says/does. Look at the quote Plushyta provided in which Plushenko explains in slightly greater depth what he thought of some of the men at this year's Worlds. He also discussed a number of other skaters in the interview, though it wasn't the main focus of it.

    Twitter is not a platform for a serious analysis of anything, and I don't expect anyone to use it in such a manner.

     
  23. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    No Plushenko didn't say Chan is ugly. I am giving an example of common throw away remark.
     
  24. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

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    Plushenko said the following things via twitter:

    He did not say Chan does not deserve the title, even if the journalist deduced it for him. "Win" can refer to win the medal, or win the hearts.

    In one of his interview, he express the opinion on why he cannot believe Chan won it without lobbying:

    That is all. Plus he said in his other interviews that he likes Chan's SP.
     
  25. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Now I know how Volosozhar/Trankov won the free skate at Cup of Russia with four major mistakes of which 2 were falls. Unlike them, Chan lost the FS at Worlds by more than 5 points. Chan would really need a little bit more lobbying.;)

    Thanks, yaya24.:)
     
  26. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    :rofl: Win cannot refer to winning a medal - it says "Patrick Chan did not win" so if it refers to a medal then it makes even less sense, and as to winning hearts? Are you seriously trying to suggest that Plushenko meant, Patrick Chan did not win the heart of the audience, but his skating federation did? FFS I knew the ubers were batshit crazy but this crazy??

    It is entirely clear what Plush meant in his tweet and it's :watch: value is great!
     
  27. plushyta

    plushyta Member

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    Does anyone remember, when Chan talked in the 2009/10 season, how his choreographer Lori Nicol praises him before ISU judges, to whom she kept course: "what is good skating"? :rolleyes:

    ... If this is not a conflict of interest and corruption, I do not know what it is? :slinkaway



    Plushenko never said that! :eek: I'm tired of the eternal repeating the same lies and ignorance denials...:eek:

    Evgeni Plushenko isn't creating new Olympic medals:
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...gureskating/2010-02-23-evgeni-plushenko_N.htm
     
  28. fscric

    fscric Active Member

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    Why?
     
  29. just tuned in

    just tuned in Active Member

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    Plushenko is a jumper, not an artist, so I am not surprised that he awards HIS prize to clean jumps (but just in the LP, not SP?)

    I would be very interested to know if ever there was a competition in which Plushenko competed and he said that he himself did not deserve to medal.
     
  30. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there is. And Bigfoot has the video. But he only watches it with Elvis and Tupac.