Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. Tony Wheeler

    Tony Wheeler Well-Known Member

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    Many of you share this same thinking process and I don't know why. Really, it doesn't create that drastic of a difference that a skater is going to fall from 3rd to 15th under slightly adjusted rules. It *does* create enough of a difference that it reflects the actual skating.

    Some stuff I have written in the last few days to demonstrate:

    http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/03/following-up-on-current-state-of-skating.html

    http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/03/even-more-analyzing-chan-and-ijs.html

    http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/03/the-new-ijs-set-of-points-to-end-all.html
  2. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Oh really??
  3. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    And we care what Plushenko thinks about Chan's win because???

    This from a skater who acknowledges that he has not much of anything in between his jumps.
    This from a skater who has been repeatedly held up in PCS over past years.
    Has he even WATCHED anything from the comp?

    I think some of you need to take a good look at what it actually taking place ON the ice instead of wuz-robbing and yelling CHANFLATION every time Chan wins.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  4. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Plushenko.
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  5. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    And PLushenko can win titles (some anyway) with minimal choreography and no transitions. What's your point?
  6. Glacier cat

    Glacier cat New Member

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    Todd, Johnny and Tina are Americans. Russian champion should be treated as a villain here, you know :p
  7. Tony Wheeler

    Tony Wheeler Well-Known Member

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    Everyone can have an opinion, but I must have missed where everyone else blames Skate Canada for the points Chan earned..
  8. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I am a big Plushenko fan but it's not going to help him to express his opinion this openly (even though many others - from other countries- agree with him), since he plans to compete in Sochi next year, and I hope he does. He needs to let the feds battle this out. It's OK for Weir and Eldredge to express it because they are not planning on competing in Sochi or even worlds at this point (yes, I am writing off Weir). Gao said the same thing but she does not have the kind of visibility Plushy has in international figure skating.

    However, it is not Plushenko's nature to keep quiet if he feels that something is wrong. He speaks up. I just accept it as his opinion, and I happen to agree with it. I do believe that if this competition was somewhere other than Canada, there was at least a chance of seeing a different result.
  9. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Actually we ARE talking about what actually took place on the ice. You don't know whether Plushenko watched it, so that jab was quite unnecessary. You did not ask whether Weir or Eldredge watched it. A little animosity toward the 2006 Olympic champion?
  10. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Most of these titles were won under a system that did not emphasize transitions and had different requirements as far as choreography was concerned, so I'm not sure how this is really relevant. Not to mention that much of Plushenko's success owes to consistency and strong jump technique, and even without cramming his programs with transitions, that is something that is worth a lot of points.

    I hope I don't get :lynch: for this, but I really don't understand the obsession with transitions, seemingly above and beyond all other components. They are one component out of five, not the most important one, and to be honest, I find that a lot of the transitions skaters perform contribute nothing to their programs or to my enjoyment of their skating. I think this component and the way it is interpreted privileges quantity and difficulty over quality and aesthetics, and I can't say this is something I want to applaud.

    Anyway, back on point, Plushenko is not arguing that he is better than Chan or would have beaten Chan, so it doesn't matter how his programs compare to Chan's. It matters how Ten's programs and performance at Worlds compare to Chan's, and Plushenko is hardly the only one to answer that with "favorably".
  11. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    :rofl: Yes, of course

    Weir's tweet:

    This judging is ridiculous and the only reason people buy it is because it's in North America. Imagine the outcry if it were Russia+Plush!?
  12. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    But the biggest mistake for Plushy's this move is that he contributed this win as a result of politicking from Canada. He will not get away with this.
  13. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Dear Tony! These were three twitts...No more.... I understand why he did not make a serious analysis....
  14. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    If you factored in a zero in transitions in pcs it would have killed plushenkos pcs score! A total zero from 2004-2005 season to the most recent 2012-2013 season would he have won anything? One pcs category of zero from sp and lp would he have even won the 2006 Olympics? So here you have a situation to where the only right score for plushenko was zero and he doesn't win anything probably. But even if a zero was right that would mandate all judges giving plushenko more than zero be sanctioned so it's a judge issue. It doesn't really apply to 6.0.

    But the point about why the obsession with transitions I missed. Non stop movement for movement sake is very popular among a lot and believed to make everything harder. People like crazy non stop movement for no reason!!
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  15. Tony Wheeler

    Tony Wheeler Well-Known Member

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    I think some people just don't like that the majority of Canadian skaters come into competitions prepared and really read up on the criteria that is published regarding the different aspects of the PCS. Anyone can do it-- Canada just seems to excel much more than anyone else. It's like an open-note test and there are always some people who won't even bring the notes to class.

    Look at the short program of Duhamel/Radford. Easily the most transitions of the pairs short. Do the marks reflect that? No. The choreography was actually pretty complex, too.
  16. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I just saw this and even though every jump is treated the same they vary so wildly in difficulty!
  17. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    not relevans, and isn't true... but maybe , because he skated mostly under the old system?? hm?
  18. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    The factors on the PCS are less for the SP as opposed to the FS. They are 1.0 for the SP as opposed to the 2.0 for the FS.
  19. beepbeep

    beepbeep Resident Rude Brazilian

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    Wasn't he supposed to be a reasoning, calming voice through this? No?
    :watch:
  20. Glacier cat

    Glacier cat New Member

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    We look many people blame Chan when he wins. It's because Chan wins often with big errors. If he won with clean programs, nobody would yell anything.
  21. GoGreen

    GoGreen New Member

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    And yet you keep posting in this thread, not an effective way to show that you don't care.
  22. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Come on, how can expressing his opinion is going to hurt Plushnko? He will compete on home ice in Sochi.

    Chan's win at 2012 Worlds that allegedly caused "one of the biggest scandals" in figure skating happened in France, not Canada.

    I wish Virtue and Moir had enjoyed the same treatment from the judges as Patrick Chan for competing on home ice. If you can make some mistakes and still win, V/M should have won the entire competition but instead of that they didn't even win the free dance where they were quite flawless IMO.
  23. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    You was the person, who wrote yesturday, that Plushy admires Chan..yes? Plushy admires Chan today too, but he has an opinion about WCH, like have the other skaters and experts.

    He came from Israel two days ago, and I'm sure he has watched the programs on Youtube. He always has opinion about the competitions.
    The other things what you wrote are ridiculous :))) read Casey's 54th post :))
  24. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    If I were you, I wouldn't be talking this way. Save some face for your beloved skater, will ya?! ...As if your beloved skater doesn't have untouchable tiger tail...:rolleyes:
  25. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

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    Oh, there we go, when he loses in Sochi he can blame Skate Canada politicking if and when Chan finishes ahead of him, he's just trying to establish precedence. (Sarcasm, people, sarcasm! Though I cannot see how Plushenko will even medal. If he makes it there, I will happy just not seeing him permanently cripple himself on international television.)

    It's the same (okay, a tad worse) than Johnny saying how after watching US Nationals he would have placed well. Tacky, sounds like sour grapes of some kind, hardly the worst thing anyone's every said. It's just a bit more tacky coming from someone who's ostensibly competition. Last time I looked, Todd was retired and Christina is in the womens' event. And I don't think any of them said that Chan only won because of Skate Canada working on his behalf.
  26. GoGreen

    GoGreen New Member

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    Honestly, I think the same should be said to you. Where is that "Holier than thou" attitude come from?
  27. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
  28. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

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  29. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

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    The only reason why V&M did not win free dance (and overall) because they were not flawless. Their FD performance was their best on of the season but not entirely. There were moments where they were not polished , yet still their score was (rightfully imo) very high.

    Americans were flawless and seems so me they can win if they are flawless and V&M make (tiny) mistakes.

    As far as Plushenko, well I wish I could not predict his statements....
  30. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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  31. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I guess Pluschenko noticed no one was missing him in London so needed to tweet to remind us he's still around?
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  32. ks777

    ks777 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Plushenko 100%.
  33. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Oh, that's right. When he did compete under IJS, e.g. at the Olympics, his programs with no transitions *didn't* win. Silly me, how could I have forgotten that?
  34. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Do you agree that Skate Canada influenced the outcome too?
  35. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    2006 IJS was assumed so that is when.
  36. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    :lynch:
  37. plushyta

    plushyta New Member

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    Oh, how i like, when someone write (on behalf of all): "no one" :rolleyes:

    ---------------------------------------

    Here are part from today's longer Plushy's interview for russian newspaper...
    http://evgeni-plushenko.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6&start=2260#p78272
    ...
    - Leaders in single men skating is better in the year?
    - Yes, there was even few sensations. In particular, 2nd place of Denis Ten. He is originally from Kazakhstan, but recently him prepared a wonderful coach Frank Carroll, who were engaged with Olympic champion Evan Lysacek and other famous skaters. So, Ten skated very well. As for the world leader Patrick Chan, I liked his short program, but free has disappointed me. Javier Fernandez, on the contrary, was third, well skated free program. But still, I was filled with great respect to Brian Joubert. A real man! In his 28 years, he well skated short, then free program - did two quads. I expected the judges for this performance will put him higher. I am surprised with Daisuke Takahashi. I thought he would be among winners. So, there was happened a lot of surprises.
  38. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    WTF? He lost at the Olympics in 2010.
  39. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    This is where that is from and what you wrote! I just assumed you were talking about 2006 which triggered the Inman score him at zero for transitions video
  40. plushyta

    plushyta New Member

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    Lost, because he's got a lower scores for a short program (than he deserved) ... unlike Chan at Worlds 2013 - who got more...