Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. ciocio

    ciocio Active Member

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    No, they are all mine, you didn't miss anything. :)
     
  2. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    :D
     
  3. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    I like your artwork ciocio. What an Artist. Better than Ten.;)
     
  4. ciocio

    ciocio Active Member

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    :rofl:
     
  5. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    Really hope your clowning round could save some face for some shameless fans' behavior.
     
  6. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Who cares?? You think, what do you want. I know myself. I think you are not a too righteous man, and you are more biased like me. ;) This is so funny.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  7. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

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    What do you mean he is blinded? About the remarks on the output of men's event this WC? It is not very clear from your post or maybe you mentioned somewhere in the previous post?

    I think probably Chan "deserves" the title if only because of the IJS. Rules are rules. But with such messy LP and still got 8.61 for PE and 8.96 for IN, that is just scandalous. IMO, even his SS looked not that great in this particular performance, I felt his movement was kind of tight.

    In fact I do not really understand CH, now a good CH means good TR plus reasonable jumping layout, right? So actually this is kind of independent of what skaters put on ice, which means as long as you can afford to hire a good COP friendly choreographer, and execute all your transitions, you can guarantee high CH points (or at least to certain skaters). Or in other word, this mark is marking the choreographer instead of skaters. In my opinion, since the transition is rewarded independently, CH is redundant (the jumping layout is rewarded by applying x1.1 in TES, and the presentation is marked by IN and PE). Or the TR can be combined together with CH.
     
  8. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    it's really great ciocio! :respec:
     
  9. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Of course, Yagudin was friendly to Chan. Why not? What does that prove? And you believe me nobody wanted to write what you predicted... and am I a biased??:lol: What are you? :p And I never said he hates Chan, or something like this..:rolleyes: Rewatch my posts..
     
  10. GoGreen

    GoGreen New Member

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    Oh this is great! We should screen cap it and whenever there is a post related to Plushenko, just post this baby up, that will save people so much time and energy!

    One thing I really don't understand, why I always see Yags name popping up under a Plushenko thread here in FSU? Does he have his own thread, or is he a Plushenko twin of some kind that people only talk about him under the Plushenko thread?
     
  11. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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    Must we? Oh wait, I forgot the obligatory emoticons... hang on... :confused::rolleyes::scream: there you go.
     
  12. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Recant what? I have no idea what you think I l have been posting! Quadlessness is not acceptable in a win! That's it!
     
  13. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I just wanna know ciocio, how you unknowingly created the boxes within the boxes by quoting your own made-up quotes, but actually a pretty exact summary of the direction this thread has taken! Inquiring minds want to know. ;)

    Easily the most entertaining post in this thread.
     
  14. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    :saint:
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  15. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Trying quotey things to make pwetty pwatterns
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  16. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    :eek::swoon:Congrats ! I try it, but I can't do it
     
  17. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    Yes, I've said it in my previous posts in this thread. But I don't mind to repeat it one more time.

    He has made the connection between Chan's win and the politics in this case, for which he has neither evidence nor knowledge of such besides his Russian background. People have been talking about politicking in Russian federation for years. I'm sure he knows something about Russian politicking. He doesn't understand, at least doesn't understand completely about IJS. Not to belittle of him, but I dare say that I am confidently believe that some of the skating fans on this board have more knowledge on IJS than Plushenko does.;) So he has just blindly, subjectively assume that it was the Canadian federation which has done something. In this, he has made himself more "creative", more "specific", and more standing out of the crowd of those skaters who have objected this time's scores, and made himself like a fool.:p

    Actually, if you consider Chan could get 10 in PE if everything is perfect, 8.61 was OK for a four mistake performance. One fall gets a deduction of 0.25 from PE should be enough, I believe. Chan had two falls and two other major mistakes. The rest of the program he has attacked and detailed in such a fashion that little was affected. If he got one whole point deduction from PE and got 9.00, that should be more than enough. Plus some other imperfect places that judges felt he should be penalized, another -0.39 off from the PE. I think 8.61 in PE is perfectly acceptable.

    I am still learning on this one. So I can't explain it well. I didn't mean that I've fully understood the other ones already. But CH is the most puzzled me as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  18. baron

    baron Guest

    Hi
    Just to post a positive and rather sentimental one about a skater. I found the video of Todd putting his gold medal around his mother's neck. It is a very heartwarming thing to see. Just to let people take a pause from serious discussion to see a nice memory of skating in its hey day. Hope the link works
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJLdnWeWT9U

    Baron.
     
  19. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

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    This is his opinion, and he is not alone. So maybe in your eyes he is make a fool of himself, but not to many other people. But yes, it is nonetheless valid opinion by you. Now I know what you meant. Thanks for explaining that.


    If you assume Chan's PE should be 10 if he is clean, your argument probably is OK. But then judges should use the same logic for other skaters too. It is THE mark gives people an impression about how the skaters perform the program (good or bad), hence with 4 major mistakes he can still get that mark, the system needs a second thought (or the judges).

    I think my argument is valid, but hey I am a layman, so :lol:
     
  20. GoGreen

    GoGreen New Member

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    I remember this. He is one of my favorite skaters, there is always something exquisite in his movements.
     
  21. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, lovely video...
     
  22. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Ummm shouldn't all skaters be trying to do this? Coaches and choreographers who don't understand the system are not going to get much business from competitive skaters if they can't figure the system out.
     
  23. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

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    That is my point, this point actually is for the choreogragher, not the skaters themselves, or the complain should be, not for what skater put on ice.

    For example, Chan got 9 for this messy performance, if a skater cannot handle this program, could u call it a good choreography? or u would say that Chan had skated it relatively good once so he could do it, hence the programe is suitable for him. then apparantly the judging here was not based on what happened on ice, but what Chan could do.
     
  24. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    I disagree that Chan's performance was messy in terms of choreography or implying that falls on jumps = can't do choreography. Chan had mistakes on his jumps but the rest of his skating and his movements were complete and finished with refinements. Chan never seemed lost skating to the spirit of the program even with the jumping mistakes.
     
  25. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Mistakes on jumps have nothing to do with choreography. Whilst he made mistakes on jumps, he did the rest of the program without a problem.

    It is true that a choreographer can give a skater all the choreography in the world but unless the skater executes it then it is pretty much irrelevant. But in Chan's case he carried out quite successfully what he was given and probably gave it more than just putting in a average performance in that regard.
     
  26. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    And that's one good thing about CoP.
    Few years ago, Figure Skating was all about the jumps, and when skaters made mistakes on jumps, the program was painful to watch.
    Now, skaters have learnt to sell the program, even with a fall or two. that's a good thing, IMO.
     
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  27. JanetB

    JanetB Well-Known Member

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    The choreography mark is given not because the choreography is difficult but because the skater performed the difficult choreography with out flaw, which Patrick did.
     
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  28. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. But it seems the majority of FS fans would like to see flawless champions..
     
  29. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    I too prefer flawless champions but flawless performances with all the jumps completed in both programs are quite rare at Worlds. Maybe Lysacek and Buttle before him were the only ones hitting all their elements as planned when they won their world titles since the CoP was introduced?
     
  30. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    lala, we do like 'flawless' programs but we also like to see sportsmen/women push their limits. It is easier to do a flawless program if the everything is watered down. For example, skater who won with a flawless program in junior worlds will not win with that very same program in senior worlds. The demands and level of competition is different.