Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he hates USA..Why do you think so? But this whole package is Yagudin..he said this opinion, and I'm sure he won't deny it.
     
  2. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    Well, that second paragraph wasn't terribly complimentary - maybe hate is too big of a word, but it wasn't flattering. It just wasn't necessary and I think you know exactly what you are doing. Just my humble opinion!
     
  3. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Well, If I want to be honest, yes, I was a little bit malicious. But I was angry, if I wrote true things about Yag, and that weren't nice and lovely, some Yag's fan said I'm lying..hm..because I'm a fan of Plushy, -who is a commie devil :hat1:- thus I'm a liar person...Do you understand?
     
  4. Nan

    Nan Just me

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    I think I understand. Your feelings were hurt so you thought you would hurt someone else. Not a very adult response, is it?
     
  5. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, but I don't want to hurt anybody, and I couldn't imagine I will hurt somebody with the truth. The Plushy haters aren't so sensitive, if they want to hurt Plush with untrue statements. Double standard again.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
  6. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    Lala...I am a true fan of Yags. I don't give a rip if he hates everybody in the Western Hemisphere. I don't care if he says things that might not be complimentary to where I live. I can understand someone being in a foreign country and feeling out of sorts. I love Yags because of what he put on the ice, and nothing else!

    Also - Plushy a Communist? I didn't think there were any more of them in Russia or very few. Come on Lala....Communists????? Are you kidding?

    Believe it or not, I am a citizen of the USA who loves Russia and Russian culture and thinks highly of Plushy but loves Yags better. So eat that with your breakfast. And I meant that in a nice way, of course.
     
  7. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Ok, Holley. I apologize you. I think highly of Yag, because of his skating, but love Plush better.

    But don't you remember for the NBC clips with Lenin's statues falling and Plushy presented as an evil commie? And many Plushy fans from North-America talked about the constant and saturation-level vilification of Plushy in American mainstream media, and it was particularly bad against him in 2010.

    but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVGRZLmIEIw too big difference..
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
  8. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Yes the Lenin busts all over the plushenko fluff was weird! It wasn't Peter the great or Catherine the great or Putin but Lenin! I guess it could have been Stalin right? Or were there some stalins too? Hammer and sickles and Lenin? Plushenko never competed for the soviet union. Symbols of Russia could be the kremlin or st basils why go with so much communist dictator stuff. It was very prominent. Plushenko Lenin plushenko Lenin? Why not throw a Peter the great in there!

    http://ontd-political.livejournal.com/5418111.html?thread=328948351

    Plushenko as soviet villain from rocky 4

    http://newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2010/02/olympolitics.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
  9. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    No apology necessary, Lala. I respect your opinion, but I really have never seen any video of Plushy presented as an evil Commie, and even if I had, I wouldn't have believed it. I'm in public relations myself, and I rarely believe anything I read or see..... I agree Plushy never competed for the USSR or any official Communist state. That's insane! Just some media fools having a good time. I daresay he has received much more positive press than negative over the years. I remember seeing him live at a tour right after the SLC Olympics (I think) in Atlanta and he was cheered just as much as the others. All public figures get good and bad publicity. You just have to roll with the punches.

    Edited to say....I sincerely don't remember Plushy being denigrated with mobile Lenin statues around the 2010 Olys, though that might have happened. I watched those Olympics faithfully, so it must not have made a very big impression if I did see it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
  10. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    http://gawker.com/5474156/is-nbc-tr...old-war-through-figure-skating?tag=television

    Watch the video.

    There are also shots of the statute of Peter the Great on horseback, a cathedral, and a branch of McDonald's. Clearly, NBC was trying to depict poor little Evgeni Plushenko as an ultra-religious American lackey with imperial pretenstions. ;)
     
  11. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    As was pointed out in the links the music was ominous and the reflection was in water. you flash some Lenin and hammer and sickles with ominous music you get reactions from the new yorker and other sites! It was about a figure skater! Not an enemy of the us motivated by Lenin!
     
  12. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    lala also said in another thread that Plushenko would have won in Vancouver if it hadn't been for Chan's coach Lori Nichol who pushed for the ISU to illegally add Transitions to the other program components to help North-Americans win the competition, there was no Transitions mark prior to Vancouver. So...

    What I posted earlier is all I know Yagudin would have said of Chan and his skating. Yagudin and Chan were involved in several shows in China and Korea alongside other skaters in 2011 and 2012 and I thought Yagudin was genuinely friendly to Chan. But of course people who know these things better than I do might want to reply Yagudin was actually just polite to Chan, in fact Yagudin hates Chan and is against him.:lol:

    When the Russian Federation decided to send Kovtun to Europeans, Yagudin tweeted something like the Russian Federation is chaos and nothing will change so long as they keep Piseev in office. They should follow the example of the US Federation where things are pretty well organized.

    It seems there are things Yagudin appreciates about America though.;)

    Looks like there's just a few skaters in today's skating who absolutely deserve the scores they receive. Most skaters are either overmarked (usually the ones we hate) or undermarked (usually the ones we love) by the judges. Also, the technical panels call UR's randomly, they see UR's where there are none or the other way around, they miss obvious underrotations. The scoring system is just too complicated for the casual fans - the good old 6.0 system days where everybody knew what the mark of 5.7 stood for and everybody could explain why a skater got 5.6 from a judge and 5.9 from another judge for the same performance.

    Are we surprised that figure skating is dying?;)
     
  13. anna1506

    anna1506 New Member

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  14. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    It was part of the interview, so was quoted. What's the big deal? Should we censor interviews so others won't dis our favs?

    If it doesn't bother you at all, then you shouldn't have a problem with it being posted.
     
  15. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    That's not lying: that's delusion.

    In fact, for TR Plushenko earned 7.82/7.75 in Torino (2006), as well as TR scores at 2004 and 2005 CoR, 2005 GPF, 2005 WC (QR and SP), and 2005 and 2006 Euros. He might have competed as if he were competing under 6.0, but he was scored using CoP.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
  16. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be contradicting yourself. If a two quad program can be superior to a three quad program, then a one quad program can be superior to a two quad program. That being the case, it would follow that a non-quad program could be superior to a one-quad program and a non-triple axel program could be superior to a one triple-axel program.

    What you are suggesting is that there should be a baseline of one quad for a winning program under the current system. But that is an arbitrary criteria and not the current criteria. A points system rewards what is done and the points for the quad is only a portion of the total points.

    For your viewpoint to work, there would have to be sufficient points for the first quad - more than for the second - and/or a bonus, to ensure that the one-quad skater would have an secure advantage over the non-quad skater.
     
  17. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    It was not the content of that part of the interview that bothered me, it was the motivation of why it was necessary to post it when it had nothing to do with what we were talking about.

    OK-I remember the video now. I see that it is rather bleak and the music was dreary and the camera angles were low. But they did show a lot more than just Lenin although unfortunately not in focus.....But those were Plushy's words- and actually I thought he came off pretty heroic. Determined and good natured. I don't think it was all that bad. Plushy looked cute! Mind you, I live in the southern part of the USA and I'm used to having every other movie and TV show depict where I live as containing a bunch of drooling idiot racist uneducated rednecks, so maybe my skin is a little thicker than most people's.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  18. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I am not saying It could be built into the system. I am not sure that it could. Just as a viewer and hearing skaters say-which now includes patrick chan- that doing a quad alters a program athletically more than anything else - even when a skater with all triples adds a 3a than if someone is going for gold at an Olympics or worlds that doing so without even trying a quad is not even coming close to athletic maximum at all! 1 quad is my baseline and the system changes that now skaters dont have to worry about the extreme punishments that used to exist that meant takahashi for example got no points for his 3 plus rotations in his Olympic fs.
     
  19. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Someone could always create a bit of software that can determine results based on any criteria.
     
  20. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    Thanks for finding it, lala!

    I haven't paid close attention on Yagudin in recent years. But I can totally understand for what he said. Still, sorry to say, it's contrary to what you have said about Yagudin's view on Chan. Yes, he did say that he was not interested in competition anymore. But he was refering to lack of high athletic abilities in recent year competitions. He actually specifically singled out Patrick Chan as the only one who qualified for their "multi-quad club". Contrary to what you have insisted, I do not see Yagudin show dislike on Chan at least in this particular interview which you brought here as an example for your claim.

    The second part of the translation which was only a small part of this very long interview did seem out of place, since there was no one asking for it. I, for one, have already known what Yagudin thought about USA, American food and drink, girls, and the sort. So the second part of the translation was no surprise to me at all. Whatever your "a bit malicious" intentions go, it didn't work one bit on me.:shuffle:

    This whole business of re-direct attention from Plushenko to Yagudin is, to say the least, a little bit tasteless. It doesn't work.;) Now, back to Plushenko...:lol:
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  21. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

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    You provoked it, do not act so innocent.

    Yes, we should go back to the topic, but not to Plushenko, but to his opinion. This post is not about Plushenko's skating, but about his opinion on the result of this WC.

    If you think Plushenko is over scored, fine, no problem, but it would just prove that the system is flawed, is it not? Or in some of you's opinion, when Plushenko is over scored, it is over scored, when Chan is over scored, it is reasonable? No matter how bad you think Plushenko's skating is to today's standard, he expressed his opinion on this year's WC men's result. As a very good skater in the past (since many of you consider he is outdated), as a professional who does FS for over 25 years, I think his opinion can be regarded as a valid comments.

    In fact this article should be just used as a proof in one of the post around discussing about the flawed system, instead of being posted separately. His opinion is not new one, being posted separately especially here means only one thing, the focus of the topic itself will get lost in the heat debate about Plushenko's skating with similar critics back in years.

    So if you want to go back to Plushenko, it is only fair to go back to the topic of the post, whether you agree on his opinion or not, not on his skating.
     
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  22. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a Plushenko fan by any means. I hated his dominance during the 2006 Olympics and didn't like that "better" skaters could not perform up to their potential in the 2010 Olympics and thus make it more difficult for Plushenko to medal.

    That said, I find it a little...I don't know disrespectful that so many here dismiss him and his success (that he got with his skating) because he stated an opinion about Patrick Chan's win (a skater who I do think is a superior skater in terms of pure skating skills and choreography if not execution or interpretation of choreography). Say what you will about Plushenko's lack of transitions or hoaky performances, but the man does know his stuff when it comes to figure skating and I am sure he knows a lot more than most posters (maybe every poster) who has posted in this thread.
     
  23. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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    And now it all come out. Exactly the sort of person I thought you were. I knew it wasn't just a language barrier, you really are a nasty person.
     
  24. ciocio

    ciocio Active Member

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    Oh, boy,this is great!:rofl:
     
  25. aeterna

    aeterna New Member

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    Laugh so hard that my face hurts.
     
  26. ItalianFan

    ItalianFan Member

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    I'm, full of admiration ciocio, how did you get those frames around the comments??!!
     
  27. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    :lol: Yes I am amazed too.
     
  28. ciocio

    ciocio Active Member

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    I've quoted the quotes. :D The result surprised me too. :eek:
     
  29. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    Excellent! Now we're making progress - I'll be sure to bookmark this post to throw back in your face when you recant for the umpteenth time then :cheer2:
     
  30. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    Fair! You are terribly mistaken though. Although I was indeed mad at him this time, Plushenko is the King in my eyes. But the King could be blinded by something as well.;) The reason I went after "Yagudin claim" was because I cannot stand some of the crazy Plushenko fans.;) So go figure.

    Are these quotes from actual posts? Or did I miss something?:confused:
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013