Plushenko’s Coach Slams Skating Judges

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. Sugar

    Sugar Well-Known Member

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  2. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    :rofl: And for additional proof of that, he only has to look at his own athlete......
     
  3. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    except that Plushenko didn't win at an event while having a meltdown ;)
     
  4. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    When Plushenko skated poorly which was very rare (a melt down only once in my memory- the 2000 worlds LP), the judges did mark him down. He finished in 4th, after placing 1st in the SP. He finished second couple of times (to Sandhu and Joubert- once each).

    Mishin said what many posters on this board said, although I am not sure about the home field advantage since the skater that suffered due to the bias is also Japanese.
     
  5. peibeck

    peibeck Letting Poje be on top

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    Mishin should only look at the shite I/K put on the ice in Japan if he wants to complain about generous PCS scores. :p
     
  6. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    what about vol/tra marks at Rostelecom this year?
    always the foreigners....

    we´re all in those discussions about chan, asada vs. suzuki at nhk, vol/tra at CoR. but let´s face it. this is figure skating with all it´s drama around :drama:
     
  7. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Meltdown or no meltdown, IMO Plushenko is the poster boy for skaters who have received outlandish components marks for reasons other than their actual skating.
     
  8. GoGreen

    GoGreen New Member

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    Speak for yourself. ;) Plushenko is the POSTER BOY of many things, as testified by standing ovations after standing ovations after his performances. I don't see any booing from the audience for his "outlandish" marks, instead, the audience always cheered his marks enthusiastically.

    And repeating stuff a thousand times won't make it more true. Keep preaching! You may get somewhere some time. Amen! :lol:
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  9. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    What? Plushy got standing ovations when he finished his programs. His victories were well-deserved, always.
     
  10. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    :lol: :respec:

    Or athlete(s) ... e.g., Gachinski at "home-cooking" Moscow Worlds.

    ETA:
    Of course Plushy usually deserved his wins, but IMHO, after Yags retired Plushy had no one pushing him technically and artistically and he got a little lazy re challenging himself to improve, until the new wave of skaters began showing what sublime artistry is all about: Lambiel, Buttle, Weir, Takahashi, Abbott, and with his SS, Chan. Ironically, it was quadless but determined Evan who trumped Plush at 2010 Olympics.

    Plush being scored so highly at 2006 Olympics in the sp over Johnny Weir's iconic Swan was mainly due to rep scoring. Plush was relying on his jumps, his charisma, and his reputation rather than improving his artistry, transitions and full body movement. Now Plush is trying to meld artistry with his jumps at the age of 30, which I think is rather too late. I'd prefer seeing Plush compete on a senior professional tour than seeing him make a comeback for Sochi, but I do bow down before his strength of will. However, it's a shame to see many Russian skaters in the mold of Plush, rather than in the mold of Urmanov, Kulik, Abt, and Yags.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  11. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Plushenko is a poster boy for consistently landing very difficult jumps- better than anyone else- and pushing himself constantly to improve, despite injuries, for being competitive for years after his contemporaries can't do it anymore or don't want to (no knock on Yagudin or Kulik). Other skaters can learn a lot from him.

    Quite frankly, it was unnecessary to bring Plushenko into this. Mishin expressed his opinion about the recent judging, and many would agree with him, but they don't have to. People see things differently.
     
  12. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ Correct-a-mundo!
     
  13. Wiery

    Wiery Well-Known Member

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    Very well said!
     
  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    As if the audience actually knows the PCS criteria.
     
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  15. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps Mishin is simply trying to pave the way for "home advantage" to continue working and "cutting out bias" to continuing failing when Sochi rolls around. ;)

    Even Mao was shocked in the kiss 'n cry when her marks came up after her free skate. I had to LOL when Tara Lipinski declared on the NBC broadcast of NHK, that Mao's generous marks were due to her "street cred." :lol:


    ITA, Jeschke, re Vol/Tra marks at both of their GPs this season, especially when they were given the win over Pang/Tong at Skate America, albeit there it had nothing to do with home advantage (and more to do with judges favoring V/T for their potential and rep as the "entitlement" Russian pair -- which doesn't mean they aren't talented of course). I like V/T a lot, but I don't care for their programs this season and they are often given generous marks when they make mistakes.
     
  16. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Ahem. I didn't say anything about Plushenko's performance in other judged elements. Mishin was the one who raised the issue of component marks specifically. And my point is that his major student of late has received IMO unduly high component marks - regardless of the marks he did or didn't get on everything else - so for Mishin to suddenly be calling out the judges for inaccurate marks on components is ironic to say the least.
     
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  17. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    So, Mao was held up over Suzuki because of home advantage, except that . . . both women are Japanese????
     
  18. nenne

    nenne New Member

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    Mishin's skaters have never won with a poor skating. Arthur's skating in M. was very good and his 3 th place was completely right. Mishin nows what he's speaking about...But, in my opinion,it isn't only home favorities, it's name favorities too(Kim, Chan and Hanyu now). The actual system is perverse: on the one hand "mathematics" on the other one PCS absolutely biased.Coaches, fans must be opposed to
    it.
     
  19. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    No, some feel that Mao was held up over the skaters she beat in the LP. Suzuki won the LP, and has nothing to do with it. Mao obviously wasn't held up on the TES, so it seems obvious it was the tweaking of the PCS that held her up.
     
  20. ChelleC

    ChelleC Well-Known Member

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    Mishin has no room to talk about any skaters component marks
     
  21. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    The theory usually goes that the judges will push whoever the Federation is pushing, which is why it's worrisome if a probable World or Olympic medalist doesn't win his/her/their Nationals (because that shows a lack of "support"), and why being [Country]#2 and especially [Country]#3 means getting less support or no support.
     
  22. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    If I had to guess...Mao was being held up because she is 2-time WC and because Akiko is 27 and is viewed as approaching her expiration date.
     
  23. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Home ice advantange? What the hell does he mean by that. From what I know, Akiko is Japanese :rolleyes:. It has nothing to do with home advantage.

    Technically, although Mao only landed three clean triples, Mirai only landed four perfectly clean ones. Both loops were deemed underrotated and two double toes were also. Mirai lost over 6.5 points on all the downgrades and the negative GOE marks that she received.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  24. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    But should Mao have beaten Mirai in the free?
     
  25. naan

    naan New Member

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    Mao was held up on the TES, too. GOE was quite generous, she was lucky not to get some of her jumps(3F in SP, 3Lo-2Lo-2Lo in LP) downgraded.
     
  26. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    But obviously, he feels "entitled" to do so. ;)

    Yes, it's not too clear whether Mishin genuinely prizes or even truly understands the importance of the artistic side of figure skating. He seems to stress the jumps more than the artistry. Neither should take a back seat.

    Generally though with Mishin's rep and his greatest pupil's rep (Plush), they never had to worry about the PCS, as many judges tend to give technically consistent jumpers generously high PCS. Gachinski benefited from that tendency in Moscow 2011. The next season, as soon as Gachinski began losing consistency on his jumps, his PCS started taking a nosedive as well. Actually, Gachinski was initially over-rated on PCS, because even though Gachinski has great potential to be a wonderful skater artistically and technically, he seems gawky and unpolished on the ice.
     
  27. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    He really should learn what the PCS criteria are. Landing a quad or 3/3 is not a stated criterion. Skating clean is not a stated criterion.

    Stop whining and get your skaters to use deeper edges for god's sake.
     
  28. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Skate well and get good marks, skate poorly and get low marks... I understand fully that it's not really what components marks measure, but I'm sorry, I really like that concept. :shuffle:
     
  29. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Gachinski didn't win bronze in Moscow with a meltdown! And he got the lowest pcs of any medalist and some people who didn't medal. His medal had nothing to do with pcs and was in spite of his pcs in Moscow worlds. Mao had huge pcs for her meltdown skate at NHk.
     
  30. made_in_canada

    made_in_canada INTJ

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    Not always true. In Vancouver in 2010 there was a large portion of the audience who was quite happy that he didn't win and were a bit :huh: that he placed as high as he did.

    This.
     
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