Plane crash at San Francisco Airport

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by dardar1126, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Messages:
    18,917
    I'm neither a lawyer nor a law student but this was a summer intern who either was being malicious or he was just too stupid to recognize what he was doing. Not criminal at all and it shouldn't be,IMO. A terrible gaffe on the part of the NTSB but they will survive it.
     
  2. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    18,014
    I don't think it could be an accident. The meaning of the "mistake" words is too deliberate.


    It's not so much the burden of proof issue - it's more that the UK courts tend to take a much broader view of the scope of the potential impact that the allegedly libelous or slanderous statements could have. See this article on "libel tourism" in the UK:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/10/business/media/britain-to-seek-curbs-to-libel-tourism.html?_r=0

    From what I know of US libel/slander law, this situation would not be either. Libel/slander would be more like identifying the pilots' names accurately and then alleging without sufficient proof that they were e.g. abusing substances, asleep, watching a DVD instead of flying the plane......anything that would be wrong and/or reflecting negatively on their professional abilities.
     
  3. PrincessLeppard

    PrincessLeppard Pink Bitch

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    22,345
    In the UK system, the person who did the alleged libeling has to prove they are correct. That's why David Irving (a holocaust denier) sued Deborah Lipstadt in Great Britain. And he lost. :p

    But I agree with overedge, there's no libel here.
     
  4. JJH

    JJH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,200
    Could the tv station sue on the basis of the prankster's intent to discredit or undermine through malicious misinformation? This incident does not reflect badly on the pilots. It reflects badly on the news program and station.
     
  5. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Messages:
    18,917
    What would be the point of suing a summer intern? I'm pretty sure he's already lost his job or maybe he was also duped. Have they figured out who provided those names?
     
  6. JJH

    JJH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,200
    I'm confused. The NTSB made a mistake in confirming the names. I was referring to the possible legal responsibility of the prankster that originally gave out the misinformation that caused the TV station to call the NTSB where the inexperienced intern presumably made an honest mistake in confirming the names.
     
  7. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Messages:
    18,917
    I'm just asking if we know who that is.
     
  8. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    10,175
    I don't think this is a time in which civil litigation would be proper. Someone has to have suffered a legally cognizable injury. I mean I guess the news station could sue if they could show NTSB (by the actions of their intern) injured them somehow, but I think they would rather have this go away. They already issued an apology, NTSB already took responsibility, and hopefully that summer intern learned a big lesson in what it means to be professional and what the consequences are of not acting that way.

    Not everything needs to be litigated, and I think the best thing for NTSB to do is not give this intern a referral and, since people talk and that sort of field is pretty close-knit, I'm sure that the intern is not going to have many job opportunities for a while until this all blows over.

    I personally think it's incredible that the news station even thought those names were real. For one thing, those names don't even sound Korean, and another, just looking at those names should have raised a red flag. Furthermore, why would the plane have four pilots? Is that standard?
     
  9. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    3,299
    It is my understanding that on these long, trans-oceanic flights they have two flight crews who switch off during the journey.
     
  10. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    18,014
    If they tried, I bet the other side's lawyer would counteract with the argument that the TV station was negligent in not recognizing that the names were fake. I mean, seriously, this newscast must have an editor, or producer, or writer, in addition to the technician who made up the graphic and the newsreader who read the names on air. If none of those people even questioned whether Ho Lee Fuk was a real name, that's not the NTSB's fault.
     
  11. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,800
    US airlines don't seem to have two flight crews on 8+ hour flights from and to Europe. They only introduce pilot, co-pilot and first officer. The cabin crew gets some resting time though and I think the cockpit crew does, too, one at a time.
     
  12. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    10,175
    I guess to counter that, the station's lawyer could argue that a reasonable person would take NTSB's word on it since they are the ones who have the official information. So if one were to contact them and receive info from someone representing NTSB, then NTSB would be still be responsible. The argument could be made that it's not the station's job to double check if the information they received from someone answering on NTSB's behalf (and is in their employ) was correct as anyone who contacts them should trust the info they provide (as far as they know to be correct and not intentionally false). However, NTSB can argue that it's the station's job to double check as they are a news station and every responsible reporter should check their information and sources.
     
  13. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    16,773
    It's already been established that this plane had four pilots who were rotating shifts.
     
  14. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    18,014
    If it were one fake name, sure, but a reasonable person looking at all four of those names more likely than not would suspect that something was amiss.
     
  15. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    3,299
    Twitter:

     
  16. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    13,374
    There just isn't any way that someone came up with those names by accident or typographic error. Someone thought it was funny. Idiot. I am surprised the news people didn't figure it out by saying the names out loud. I don't care if they were confirmed by the NTSB, I would have quadruple checked that one before reporting it. Especially when NTSB says that its policy is that they don't release names.
     
  17. Badams

    Badams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,024
    Everything now is a battle of firsties. Who cares if the info being spewed out is completely false or offensive?
     
  18. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,800
    Frankly, I'm surprised that as news people they weren't aware that names had been published already and were quite different from what they were supposed to report. CNN reported at least one of the names on the second or third day! Where were they hiding?
     
  19. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2002
    Messages:
    1,351
    Crash airline Asiana sues KTVU for bogus pilot names
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23321740
     
  20. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    16,773
    Good luck with that. They'll have a hard time proving damages of any kind.
     
  21. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    30,952
    I think this is a very bag move on the part of the airline.
     
  22. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    18,014
    Agreed. The airline's reputation is "damaged" because of a lot more than racially discriminatory fake names.
     
  23. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Messages:
    20,788
    This will never hold. First of all, the airlines reputation is hurt because they crashed a plane and killed 3 people not because a news station was completely idiotic. Secondly, NTSB confirmed those names so even though the station was so stupid for not realizing the mistake, NTSB assured them they were good. The airline should go after the NTSB, if anyone.
     
  24. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,276
    Does the NTSB have sovereign immunity?

    O-
     
  25. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Messages:
    20,788
    I have no idea. If it does then that takes them off the table but it also takes the responsibility off of the news station. IMO. I don't know what you are expected to do after confirming something with the NTSB. They got the go ahead, how can they possibly be responsible? I have a feeling the suit will be thrown out immediately and it is probably more of a move to deflect attention anyway. Proving that the news station hurt their reputation as opposed to the crash will be impossible.
     
  26. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,276
    Good point. Classic PR move.

    O-
     
  27. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    30,952
    But everyone can see through this PR move so it defeats the purpose. Just creates more animosity towards the airline IMO.
     
  28. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    10,175
    And it makes them look petty.
     
  29. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Messages:
    20,788
    Yes, but I suppose when you just crashed a plane and killed passengers then you make moves out of desperation. They probably felt they had nothing to lose.

    I wonder if this was a wise PR move for them back in Korea, though. They can bring up the horrible racist Americans and cast us as the villains and hope the people over there forget that a plane crashed.
     
  30. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,384
    Agreed. I seached the news on Asiana Airline on one of the biggest Korean portal site, Naver, sorting the articles on timeline. With Google translater, I see the latest articles are mostly on the suit. Although all I could read was just titiles and a few lines of the articles, it's clear that they succeeded in defecting people's attention back in Korea so far. Here is the link of it but I DON'T RECOMEND you to click it since the site is sometimes HARMFUL for your PCs, e.g. cookies/virus.( my PC is OK so far with my security soft, though.)
    http://news.search.naver.com/search.naver?ie=utf8&where=news&query=아시아나&sm=tab_tmr&frm=mr