Plane crash at San Francisco Airport

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by dardar1126, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    NTSB reports are public information and are not released to anyone before they are released to everyone. That's not to say someone might not have some inside info because they know someone on the investigative team but that's an anomaly.

    That's true on US airlines but not necessarily so on others.
     
  2. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I would like to hear more about the aircraft itself. Did they try to keep the speed where it was supposed to be but due to a mechanical problem they could not achieve it? At 4 seconds before the crash it sounds like the plane stalled. I would like to know more about that too- again, mechanical/electrical, etc. reason. I am sure the NTSB will examine that, but right now it seems a lot of people are eager to call it pilot error. It may have been a pilot error but I would rather wait for the full investigation to be complete before drawing conclusions.
     
  3. susan6

    susan6 Well-Known Member

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    One human error that definitely occurred, and that boggles my mind....is that several passengers took the time and trouble....after their plane crashed, tore apart, flopped around, and then finally skidded to a stand still and then started burning....to collect their luggage from the overhead bins. In some of the pictures of the aftermath you can see some survivors wheeling their bags behind them, past the wreakage.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngog...hy-did-so-many-passengers-evacuate-with-bags/

    It's only due to sheer luck, cabin crew expertise, and non-flammable cabin materials that the delays caused by luggage shuffling didn't cost lives. If I ever have the misfortune to be in a similar situation: anybody in between me and the exit who is reaching for their belongings is getting punched in the face.
     
  4. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I too was surprised to see pictures of passengers walking on the ground, with bags/briefcases in hands. This must have been a very small number though.
     
  5. UMBS Go Blue

    UMBS Go Blue KWEEN 2016! YES WE KWAN!

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    That was my thought too, but after hearing more stories, it's not clear if there were any intentional delays caused by baggage shuffling. It looks like:

    * those passengers who escaped with bags were from the front and middle of the plane (business/first classes, which are less dense), which were less damaged, and had a much easier time getting out than those pinned in the back
    * many overhead bins, in the front and back, opened during impact, sending luggage flying
    * presumably, passengers would have had to physically remove/pick up these bags to get them out of the way anyway
    * if time was in their favor, if there was not a stampede to get out of the plane from the front, if those who picked up their bags were from the front only, and if they had to pick up their bags to get them out of the way anyway, then it wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to leap out of the plane with the bags in tow.

    Still, my thoughts in such a situation (if I were thinking clearly) would be to get the h*ll out of there - forget the bags.
     
  6. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    My carry on bag always goes under the seat in front of me. It takes no more time and wouldn't impede anyone else for me to grab it and take it with me. If it would I'd leave it behind. It's not a wheeled case, though.
     
  7. skatemommy

    skatemommy Well-Known Member

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    Zemgirl, what part of this am I wrong about? First flight as trainer and first flight into SFO :rolleyes:
     
  8. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah there were reports of numerous baggage falling down from the overhead bins during the crash, so if they were in the way, might as well toss them outside.
     
  9. UMBS Go Blue

    UMBS Go Blue KWEEN 2016! YES WE KWAN!

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    Please take the time to seek out deeper articles from reputable sources:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324507404578593041044222304.html

     
    jamesy and (deleted member) like this.
  10. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/unusual-pattern-spine-injuries-jet-crash

    UNUSUAL PATTERN OF SPINE INJURIES FROM JET CRASH
    By LAURAN NEERGAARD
    — Jul. 8 9:47 PM EDT

    Excerpt:

     
  11. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    The articles linked earlier by myself and by UMBS Go Blue indicate that this was not Mr. Lee's first training flight on a 777, not his first flight ever into SFO, that both he and the other members of the flight crew were experienced pilots, that his copilot's role was indeed supervisory and not a junior role, etc. You have no idea what the training procedures are at Asiana and even if your husband (and you?) gets NTSB accident reports months before you are issued, there is no report yet in this case.

    Based on inaccurate information, you alleged that a newbie pilot was treating the landing as a video game and was essentially unsupervised; you claimed that your daughter is/was better supervised in learning to drive. I would expect that someone who is familiar with aviation and airlines would know better than to rush to judgment about an accident investigation and wait for qualified people to investigate and evaluate the situation.

    I'm done arguing with you. Now let's turn to more nice things about Lee Yoon-hye and the rest of the cabin crew.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
  12. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    I am in such awe of this flight crew...they are truly a credit to their profession! :respec:
     
  13. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    What I've read is that the pilot has never landed a 777 in SFO and that he had only had 43 hours of flying the 777.
     
  14. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's what has been reported so far. Also that he had landed many times at SFO, but of course, with different aircraft - 747s, I believe. I have read reports that he was about halfway through the familiarization flight portion of his 777 training, and had previously landed 777s at LAX, Narita and London (Heathrow, presumably?).

    James Fallows, who writes on aviation issues (among other things) for the Atlantic has been reporting on the Asiana crash: here's an earlier post, and his latest update correcting parts of the earlier one as new information emerged. I can't say I understand all the technical parts, but both are definitely worth reading.
     
  15. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    After watching the crash videos, I'm amazed that even a third walked away with no injury. That plane bounced seriously high up after it hit the seawall.

    I'm wondering if even more people could have been saved from injury had they enough time to call everyone into a brace position.
     
  16. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

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    It says Heathrow in the article's excerpt. Isn't Narita considered one of the most difficult airports to land at?
     
  17. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...id=rss1&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Air crash revives concern that automation is eroding airline pilots’ flying skills
    JOAN LOWY
    WASHINGTON — The Associated Press
    Published Tuesday, Jul. 09 2013, 9:55 AM EDT
    Last updated Tuesday, Jul. 09 2013, 9:55 AM EDT

    Excerpt:

    EDIT: via Twitter...

     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
  18. UMBS Go Blue

    UMBS Go Blue KWEEN 2016! YES WE KWAN!

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    From what I remember having traveled in and out of Narita a few times, it's near the ocean, but not on it, and the surrounding area is rural, somewhat flat and agricultural, and not mountainous, so there shouldn't be issues with topography or wind conditions specific to Narita that are any worse than at other places. There can be gusty winds there, and sometimes wind shear, as in what happened when a FedEx plane crashed there in 2009 (link - discretion advised).

    With respect to flying time, the Asiana pilot with the 43 hours' flying time in 777s was landing a 777 for the first time at SFO, but had landed 777s previously, and had also landed at SFO previously with different airplanes. The Deborah spokeswoman for the NTSB, as well as Capt. Sully (the USAir pilot now commenting for CBS), said that pilots have to get their training experience in somehow, so this particular arrangement with the Asiana flight at SFO is not unusual for either US or foreign carriers.

    That having been said, something caused the plane to drop 600 feet below its intended path just seconds before landing (when it was about 1,600-2,000 feet out - an absolutely critical time that requires instant reaction). Apparently, at that time, the pilots went fully manual, which is not unusual in itself, but the aircraft was also traveling too slowly. I'd be interested to see whether there was some split-second lapse in judgment, or failure to react accordingly, exacerbated by fatigue and/or inexperience.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
  19. UMBS Go Blue

    UMBS Go Blue KWEEN 2016! YES WE KWAN!

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    Also, from Scott McCartney:

    Baggage-Toting Fliers Remain a Risk to Emergency Evacuations

     
  20. UMBS Go Blue

    UMBS Go Blue KWEEN 2016! YES WE KWAN!

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    Also, here's a KTVU report which shows how close the view is for people landing at SFO (like me the other night, and as I head out of there again tomorrow).

    http://www.ktvu.com/videos/news/sfo-crash-arriving-passengers-greeted-by-wreckage/v57rB/

    I've never had an uneasy feeling heading into SFO because the descent is usually from the south and is very long, straight, smooth, and controlled. No matter what direction you're coming from, your plane usually gets into line near Moffett Field in Mountain View and then gradually descends and slides smoothly right into SFO.

    At the time of the crash, conditions were as good as it ever gets at SFO - bright, sunny, no fog, no wind.
     
  21. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

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    Then I think I was thinking of another airport in Asia. There's one where landing is considered so difficult because it's surrounded by skyscrapers.
     
  22. BreakfastClub

    BreakfastClub Active Member

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    Kai Tak in Hong Kong was absolutely infamous for this, but it closed in the late 90s.

    I don't know if there's anything particularly challenging about Narita (I've never heard and I don't recall anything scary when I flew in there) but it is indeed way outside of Tokyo city.
     
  23. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I have ever flown into the old Hongkong airport; it's always been the new one (and I love it!)

    I have also landed at Narita a few times ans SFO numerous times. I never had an uncomfortable feeling about Narita. With SFO I always felt that the runway was dangerously close to the runway, and I am always amazed when the pilots land the plane so smoothly. After this incident, it will be hard not to think of Asiana 214 each time I land at SFO- at least the next few times.
     
  24. PrincessLeppard

    PrincessLeppard Pink Bitch

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    I've landed at the old Hong Kong airport. It was cool and terrifying at the same time. You think you are going to hit either the water or a skyscraper and then all of sudden you land. :)
     
  25. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I've landed at SFO a few times, but don't recall it as a scary experience. Although, to be fair, it was a loooooong time ago.

    The freakiest landing videos I've seen are from Princess Juliana Airport in St. Maarten. Definitely no room for error there! But AFAIK they have a great safety record.
     
  26. susan6

    susan6 Well-Known Member

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    St. Maarten's airport is awesome for plane-watching and pretty scary for pilots. The island is very hilly and has a lagoon in the middle of it. So they had to wedge the runway on the longest strip of flat land available. So it's barely long enough for the jumbo jets; it has the ocean (and a small strip of beach, shown in the video) on one end, the lagoon on the other, and a bunch of steep hills on the other side of the lagoon. Land short, and you're on the beach. Go long, and you're in the lagoon.

    More commentary about the Asiana Airlines incident from a pilot, who also strongly recommends you leave your belongings in the plane:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ing_sfo_s_runways_and_korea_s_pilots_for.html
     
  27. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    I have almost 10,000 hours as aircrew in military aircraft (much of that in passenger planes) and, while I agree with him in general, I would only do what is safe and wouldn't impede any pax evacuation. Stand by my statement.
     
  28. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.buzzfeed.com/kevintang/i...alflow&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=buzzfeed

    In China, Mourning The Loss Of Two Killed In Crash
    Remembering the two teenage girls killed when Asiana Flight 214 crashed in San Francisco on Saturday. “Whenever anyone forgot to bring an umbrella, Wang would take you in under hers.”
    posted on July 9, 2013 at 12:21pm EDT
    Kevin Tang
    BuzzFeed Staff

    Excerpt (see link to article and many pictures)

     
  29. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    Twitter:

     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2013
  30. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I had to pick my jaw off the floor. First at :eek: at the precision flying and second at the extreme beach going. I'd be terrified to be on that beach. :scream: