Plane crash at San Francisco Airport

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by dardar1126, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    -Flight reported to have originated in Taipei, Taiwan.

    -San Mateo Fire Department: People trapped on board Boeing 777 plane that crashed at San Francisco Int'l Airport.

    -Asiana Boeing 777 crash lands at SFO. Fuel problem first reports. https://www.youtube.com/embed/0dFtmSybpuw …

    -CNN: The plane that crashed landed at SFO was Asiana Airlines Flight 214 from Seoul. (@stevebruskCNN)

    http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/boeing-777-crashes-while-landing-sfo/nYfcx/

    Posted: 11:41 a.m. Saturday, July 6, 2013

    Boeing 777 crashes while landing at SFO

    KTVU.com

    SFO —

    A plane crashed while landing at San Francisco International Airport Saturday morning after its tail came off while it was touching down on the runway.

    According to a witness, around 11:20 a.m. the plane was just about to land -- its landing gear had come down -- when the tail of the plane came off.

    After wobbling for a minute, the aircraft flipped upside down, coming to a stop on runway on it's back.

    The plane, reportedly a Boeing 777, was coming from South Korea, according to flight tracking information.

    Pictures: http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/...g/photos/2013/07/06/9f/17/SFOplaneYoutube.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOgz34dCUAAy3ih.jpg

    This photo, from @Eunner, who was *on* the plane, is reminiscent of the Miracle on the Hudson boat photo: https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=H...s=NiEKqriu40kZSqV5MQ84oW-Z5LRX5gX8w3nSpTIJmPs

    SFO air crash just now- Asiana air from So Korea, flips upside down after tail falls off. Here's cell phone video- http://bit.ly/10FY5lB

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd....x720/1045098_608090159221538_1748650944_n.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  2. halffull

    halffull Life is beautiful!

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    I sure hope they got everyone out ok ...
     
  3. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    That photo from @Eunner does show many people walking away from the airplane, so hopefully all survived...although it looks like there might be injuries.

    EDIT: via Twitter...

    PIX:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOg7J0fCcAAjOVc.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOg8OlgCAAEC2Ya.jpg:large

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/assets...-06 at 3.37.38 PM-cropped-proto-custom_24.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOg91HeCcAA5BkD.png

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOg-NCsCIAAoJI8.png

    EDIT:

    EDIT2:

    Judging from the photos, the earlier report that the plane had flipped on its back was incorrect.

    EDIT3:

    http://news.yahoo.com/faa-airliner-crashes-landing-san-francisco-191557356.html

    FAA: Airliner crashes on landing in San Francisco
    TERRY COLLINS 2 minutes ago

    EDIT4:

    This is positive news! :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  4. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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  5. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    ATC audio from immediately before and after the crash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kBLM-6dUGs I'm level-headed in a crisis, but air traffic controllers are their own species...

    Yeah it's unclear what the casualties are currently. KTVU says 2 dead, but they're also the ones who claimed the plane flipped on its back so I don't believe anything they say right now. :p

    Visibility was good, so it's either mechanical malfunction or pilot error. The debris field starts at the seawall, so it's possible the pilot came up short of the runway. -shudder-

    One of the first things I saw was the photo from the passenger who had gotten off, and it was a huge relief to see that people were okay.

    They've shut down SFO indefinitely, which is going to be a HUGE headache. HUGE. It's the largest airport in the Bay Area, and I bet OAK and SJC won't be able to take the overflow. But right now, what's most important is getting those passengers off safely and having everyone accounted for.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  6. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

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    Praying that everyone got out of the plane. No confirmation yet on injuries, etc.

    Thank you Anita18 for the ATC audio.
     
  7. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

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    CNN just reported that there are ten injured, all in critical condition.

    ETA: They just announced two fatalities related to the incident on CNN.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  8. liv

    liv Well-Known Member

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    It looks lke there will be far more than 2 fatalities when all is said and done. HOpe I'm wrong. Good to see so many getting off though, that was a major blaze.
     
  9. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    As is often the case, some of the earlier information was incorrect. Here are some updates:

    - Last I heard, it was reported that the flight originated in Shanghai, China...not Taipei, Taiwan...connected through Seoul to SFO.

    - The majority of the passengers were Chinese (141), then South Korean (77), American (61) and Japanese (1).

    -At least 1/3 of the 307 passengers and crew were able to walk away from the crash under their own power; some had minor injuries.

    -The non-ambulatory injured were taken to at least six area hospitals, mostly to San Francisco, but some to San Mateo. Many are in critical condition.

    -The Coast Guard reported pulling one passenger from the water.

    EDIT: via Twitter...

    EDIT2:

    PIC: Overhead close-up of the plane

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOiGNPQCUAAhdyH.png

     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  10. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the photos of the plane, what a miracle people were able to walk away from crash site.
     
  11. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    Here are some official condolence messages:

     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  12. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    From the pictures it looked like the plane hit the rock border around the runway because the debris start there. Captain Sully is of that opinion as well. Pilot error?

    Also, anyone in the Bay Area consider donating blood, they are short. More info here: https://www.bloodhero.com/index.cfm

    I am considering donating myself unless the fact that I just came from overseas precludes it.
     
  13. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    EDIT:

     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  14. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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  15. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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  16. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I saw this on CNN after I returned home tonight. The plane looks horrible; sorry for those who died and were seriously injured, but on the brighter side, over 190 passengers escaped without injuries. Five or six of the injured are in critical condition, so the number of dead could go up.:( RIP to the two individuals (both Chinese) who lost their lives.

    They showed the replay of the plane when it was about to land, but seemed to kind of land on its side. I am very familiar with this airport, as I have landed there many times when returning from abroad. This is when you mentally prepare to come to a stop, pick up your bags, go through customs, etc. What a shock it must have been for the survivors! Those without injuries are still at the airport, it seems. The rest are in the hospital.:(

    It sounded like the flight originated in Seoul, not Taipei.
     
  17. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear about this. The crash looks pretty bad. Hope those critically injured will recover soon.
     
  18. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    On CNN they said that Boeing 777 is a fully automated airplane to fly, with very little hands on operation. I am wondering if it's a computer error, or do they still do the landing and take off manually?
     
  19. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    The instrument systems on the runways were down for maintenance, so they were landing manually. Any professional pilot should have been able to make a manual landing during the day with clear visibility and low winds, which is presumably why SFO felt safe in taking the system down for maintenance. If the system was up, the landing would basically be automatic - you'd just follow the colored lights. They'd tell you if your angle of approach was correct or not.

    Also, keep in mind that not all airports have that system installed, even if the planes have the capability of landing with help from that computerized system. The pilots should all be capable of making a visual landing without them.

    OTOH, I hope it was honest pilot error and not some kind of cultural authoritarian issue. Korean airlines were notorious for crashes back in the 90s, because first officers didn't feel appropriate in overriding their captain. They finally made a concerted effort to encourage more democracy after a Korean Air cargo flight banked right into the ground thanks to an instrument failure...and a first officer unwilling to tell the captain his instrument was broken. Everyone died in the resulting explosion, but it was a cargo flight so it was only 4 crew members. (Not that 4 dead people is a good thing, but you know....)

    That was back in 1999 IIRC, and they were supposed to have fixed the culture since then. :(
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  20. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ Oh yes Anita. I remembered watching this t.v. series on air crashes. Let's just wait for the investigation for the cause.
     
  21. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Re airplane automation, Patrick Smith of Ask The Pilot has addressed this subject before, and is worth reading. The short version: it does not mean that the plane flies or lands itself.

    Cultural differences can also lead to communication issues between the flight crew and air traffic controllers, as happened famously in the Avianca flight 52 crash, and you can have a combination of pilot error/training with a technical issue (e.g. American Airlines flight 587). Obviously this isn't the same sort of crash as those two, but I guess we'll have to wait for the investigation to find out what happened. Possibly not even then.

    (yes, I've watched too much Air Crash Investigation...)

    I am very sorry for the loss of life, though relieved that it wasn't even worse. The early images looked quite scary.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  22. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing that so many people survived this. Very sad for the fatalities, and hope that list doesn't grow. May those critically injured recover fully & soon.
     
  23. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    EDIT:

     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  24. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

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    I know someone who works in one of the hospitals who took in some of the critically injured. (You can see him in a picture in one of the news tories online.) He told us, without revealing any details that would violate HIPPA that basically everyone in his hospital was going to fully recover from their injuries baring anything unforeseen, of course. (And that's all he told us about patients -- everything else I'm about to say is from the news, not him.)

    So that's good.

    This has been a big item on the news here, obviously. To the point there the 11 o'clock news on every station we turned to was acting like CNN and their entire broadcast was devoted to it and nothing else. Not even the weather or sports. (I've never seen anything like it, in fact.) So I now know more about it than I ever expected to including:

    -Pretty much all planes would be doing manual landings in the conditions we had with no issues even if the equipment was working.

    -There were no emergency messages from the plane to the tower prior to the crash (and honestly, from the recordings they played, it sounds like none after, though it was hard to tell)

    -Tons of people on the ground who saw the plane coming in who lives around there thought the plane was coming in at the wrong angle

    -Lots of people on the plane thought it was coming in at the wrong angle, though lots had no idea anything was up either

    -The plane didn't flip over as originally reported -- that idea came from a witness who said something to a reporter to the effect of it seemed like it might of but she wasn't sure because it was hard to see through the smoke. (I think the fact that the fire burned the top of the plane contributed to that idea.)

    -There were a bunch of people on the plane who were coming to SF for some kind of children's choir/music event (a kind of camp/cultural exchange) so there more kids on board than usual (though not an overwhelming large amount, just more than usual from what I could see)

    -A lot of the serious injuries were spine compressions but a couple of people had their spines BURST (ouch! and Scary.)

    -There was absolutely no warning given to the people on the plane that anything was about to happen from the crew

    -A ton of people from the Korean community came to the hospitals to help out such as to be translators but you have to be certified to be a translator. So they told them to give blood instead. (I kind of feel bad for them that they can't use their unique skills to help.)

    -Because there were groups on the plane coming for group events, TPTB are communicating through those groups to try to get information out as a way to deal with the language barriers and also through some other community groups (I never really thought about that part of it -- that there would be problems communicating because so many foreign language speakers would be involved in the hospital.)

    Some of this I saw in online news reports, but not all of it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  25. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

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    Oh some other things I remember from the news broadcast:

    -The two dead people were found among the debris on the tarmac. (Flung from the plane?)

    -Two people were found walking out of the water but they weren't sure if they were flung there or they went in there to cool off from burns from the fire or just escape the fire

    -At one point they had 60 (!) people unaccounted for but they pretty quickly rounded everyone up and everyone was accounted for by 11 pm last night (and probably sooner)
     
  26. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    Apparently these two 16-yr-old girls were seated at the back of the plane, near where the tail broke off. :(

    Thanks for all the local news updates.
     
  27. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

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    That, and the planes coming in before that plane did manage to land just fine, so I find it somewhat, let's say for the lack of a better word, ridiculous, that they're investigating if that played a role in the crash. If so, then more planes would have had difficulties, on that day and at every airport where they don't have such a system to begin with. Besides, an expert pointed out yesterday that the pilot knew enough to keep the plane level once it hit the ground and that he must have done exactly the right thing. Which suggests the pilot kept a clear head and wasn't a newbie, in which case I would think that landing without the landing system would have been a piece of cake.

    There seems to be a strong speculation that the pilot realized he was too low too soon and was trying to get the plane back up but since he was already that low and didn't have enough speed anymore, he didn't get the plane up quickly enough and the tail grazed the water barrier, causing it to rip off.


    I've heard a some time ago that take off and landing are never done (fully) automatically/cannot be done (fully) automatically but that could have changed by now. Considering how difficult landing and take off are though and how many factors play a role, (air pressure, wind, rain, sunshine and I'm sure tarmac temperature, too, length of runway and so many other things we don't even know about) it would make a lot of sense if they still required at least some manual handling.
     
  28. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    Update:

    :(
     
  29. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    How sad for those 70 students from China who were planning to be at a summer camp to have to go through this! Two of them - just 16 years old- even lost their lives. How traumatic for the parents!

    The spinal injuries could be very serious.
     
  30. Fridge_Break

    Fridge_Break Well-Known Member

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    CNN has video of the plane crashing. They have been looping it constantly for the last 15 minutes.