Pj's all-time top 10: Ladies

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by clara00, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, this makes no sense to me. The entire article was an opinion piece, so the "to me" is implied and gratuitous. She invites people to give their opinion if they disagree, and when they do, you jump all over them accusing them of "spin" :lol: wth spin? The word doesn't even make sense given the contact. To me. :p
     
  2. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if we could call Sarah Hughes a one hit wonder. I mean, it's not as if she was really inconsistent and won by landing all of her difficulties by miracle, just once !
    She was a very consistent skater, she didn't win before because other skaters were better, and she won the Olympics because others made mistakes. :)
     
  3. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

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    This may come as a shock for people but for some Sarah Hughes is more memorable than Kristi Yamuguchi.

    What does that mean? Nothing more than your list would be different from her list. I wonder if people can do that without calling her stupid, a hack and other kind things that have been said.

    Last thought. I find it :lol: how she gets blasted for a Canadian-centric list (3 of the ten are Canadian) and some suggestions are to replace them with a bunch of American women. Pot meet kettle.
     
  4. bek

    bek Guest


    Come on Marbri, 3 Canadian ladies and only one lady from Japan. Historically ladies has been Canada's weakest discipline. Well the US probably historically although not recently has been the best country in ladies.

    She's a one hit wonder in terms of winning a big event. This doesn't mean her win was ridiculous or not undeserved. It would be one thing if Hughes repeatedly beat the same top skaters because of their inconsistency. Than I would say like Tara (who beat Michelle) quite a lot, that there was "nothing one hit wonder about it."

    But I don't see how a skater who basically had the stars align, but was not really the best skater of her era, can be called a top 10 skater. Especially over Slutskaya. Who once again beat Hughes a lot more than Hughes beat her.

    I mean obviously Hughes skated well over the years and so when the other two messed up, the judges could say there's nothing flukish about her skating well.. But Hughes got very lucky that Kwan and Irina had off nights. (while maybe not so Irina given Irina's skate in Torino, and Nagano) But Kwan, absolutely.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2011
  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I don't remember anyone saying that Barbara Ann Scott doesn't belong on the greatest list, although there's a case for Sonja Henie being number one. I'm afraid Karen Magnussen is in the "Who?" category too often.

    Most of the suggested changes are to drop Manley and Hughes, which is one Canadian and one American. (The majority complaint about Kwan is in Kwong's argument for her and tongue bath for Lori Nichol, not that she shouldn't be on a top 10 list.) If there's a suggestion to replace Manley with Fleming, Hamill, or Yamaguchi, maybe that is because each was a World champion -- multiple times for Fleming and Yamaguchi -- and Olympic champion, and Manley, unlike Lynn, who also never won a championship title, wasn't the reason for a major change in the scoring system (the creation of the short program and the lessening of value for the school figures). It's not like people are arguing that Sasha Cohen -- also a World and Olympic silver medalist -- or Rachael Flatt should replace Elizabeth Manley.

    That said, Kwong has every right to her top 10 list and her reasoning for it.
     
  6. bek

    bek Guest

    Exactly. I actually do think Magnussen should be considered as someone who was a bit more robbed in the whole Trixie situation than Lynn. Although I will say that I have a hard time considering anyone robbed because figure skating was part of the sport. But one could argue (free skating was too). Its not like Janet was just behind Trixie in figures. Perhaps if the sport had wanted a more well rounded champ, it should have been Magnussen then Holmes.
     
  7. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Oy, I can't believe I left Heiss, five-time World champion and Olympic champion off that list.
     
  8. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    it might be :lol: if us ladies didn't dominate the field with more wins than any other nation. It's like you're laughing at people for suggesting that a top 10 pairs list have more than one or two russians on it. :rolleyes:
    If one finds us ladies :scream: :blah: or :swoon: shouldn't matter, they still have more skating medals/titles than god himself :D
     
  9. PUNKPRINCESS

    PUNKPRINCESS New Member

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    That's because some posters apparently find it difficult to understand the difference between "preference" and "ignorance". Plus, as marbri pointed out, PJ Kwong's not the one who's being lemon-y.
     
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  10. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

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    Hardly shocking that you would miss the point.
     
  11. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    :lol: I'm trying to picture a "lemon-y" top 10 list, although I'm sure FSU could manage one! Would it go something like; "Despite her lobster-claw hands and cheesy sense of musicality, Witt makes my top 10 because she was a true champion who stood up while vastly more talented skaters faltered.", or "Although she skated seemingly the same program in the same dress for like 20 years, Kwan managed to be America's most decorated skater despite slow spins and easy jump combinations" ? :rofl:
     
  12. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I think what some are saying is that it's just that some of the best and biggest names in ladies skating in happened to come from the U.S. It's not that it would be better that PJ Kwong named Americans instead of Canadians, it's that some of the Americans named really are considered some of the best. That's when people assumed Kwong was making a top ten of all-time as opposed to a fantasy competition with her own personal favorites. Of course speaking of great ladies from the U.S., the theme of this thread is that Hughes isn't one of them. ;)
     
  13. Matryeshka

    Matryeshka Well-Known Member

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    I think if we made a personal top 10 list, we'd all have one or two skaters that lots of others would have serious WTF moments. I wouldn't believe a personal favorite list that was all consistently good skaters who are all World and Olympic medalists. I would look at that and say, this person isn't a real fan.

    For example, my personal favorite list would include Butyrskaya. I understand how many would mock that choice, but you know what, I loves her. I loves her stiff knees, her temper tantrums, her funky landings and her often questionable taste in costumes, but watching her brings me joy. Whatever it is in skating that makes you feel connected to the sport, she had it for me.
     
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  14. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

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    So what you´re saying is that people got all :drama: because they weren't able to read the article properly ;) :D


    Btw Matryeshka I totally get why you liked Butyrskaya. My favourite Russian lady, loved watching her skate.
     
  15. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    This.


    I can't wait to see PJ's top10 Men list. :watch:
     
  16. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    BUTE FTW!:glamor::respec:
     
  17. hitchem

    hitchem New Member

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    Whether it's a personal fantasy list or not, it's hard to taker her seriously as a figure skating commentator after a list like this. If an historian said his/her favorite American presidents were George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, and Richard Nixon, I'd think, ok, that's obviously a personal list, and this is subjective, but you obviously have an agenda, and you're not really credible. The same goes here: her national pride clouds her ability to discern figure skating talent.
     
  18. equatorial

    equatorial Well-Known Member

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    What?! No Jennnifer Robinson? THE "Top 10 JenRo"? The girl is an epitome of Top-10-ness! Roll over Kwan, you failed to win a single Olympic gold anyway. Make way for JenRo! :saint:
     
  19. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    1. Patrick Chan
    2. Kurt Browning
    3. Brian Orser
    4. Don Jackson
    5. Vern Taylor
    6. Elvis Stoyko
    7. Jeff Buttle
    8. Eman Sandu
    9. Dick Button
    10. Phillippe Candeloro (she liked when he took his shirt off)
    :D
     
  20. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    9. Dick who ??? I think her choice was Sebastien Britten, and really, I think she is right, because I loved his skating ! :p
     
  21. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    OFF THE TOPIC but Emanuel Sandhu! How long have I been missing that name? What is he up to lately? I watched several clips of him skating in galas in Europe.
     
  22. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

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    She probably didn't watch figure skating outside of Canadian ladies until later than people like Lynn were competing. So those people, seen after the fact, sometimes in short clips, probably didn't move her personally like seeing Kwan did.

    I can understand that but I think it's unfortunate too.

    And I still think it's crazy to think Salome wouldn't beat Hughes' Olympic LP hands down in a face off. ;)

    I heard a rumor he was signed up for Canadian Sectionals.
     
  23. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but I don't think you need to go back to Janet Lynn to find another example of a skater who used the music well - as someone pointed out already in this thread, just minutes before Kwan skated Salome at 96 Worlds, Lu Chen gave a beautiful performance to Rach 2. And she also skated the fabulous Last Emperor FS in 1995 - choreographed by a Canadian, no less, so how is she not on the list? ;)
     
  24. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    all of this. I am also surprised by some of the inclusions and some of the omissions, but I don't think there really is any universal list. My list would be stacked with US ladies, though, and Kristi would be on it for what she did for pro women's skating.

    and I also loved Butyrskaya. I was so excited when I got to see her skate live--she just has so much presence. I cannot tell you exactly why aside from that presence, but watching her also brings me joy, and that is all I need to know:)

    also, just my opinion, but I want to add that I do not think that marbri meant to belittle anyone, though I can understand why that comment was interpreted in that way. I think marbri wanted to point out that our confusion at PJ's list does not really justify calling her names. and we know PJ sometimes looks at these boards...I am just hoping she does not stumble upon this thread (even though I think the majority of the posts are really interesting).
     
  25. npavel

    npavel Well-Known Member

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    she said Yagudin was on her list
     
  26. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I don't think she wants to risk the wrath of the Yagudin die-hards. I know I wouldn't want to.
     
  27. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    I heard the same thing and that he is training at 8-Rinks. Haven't heard anything about a coach though .... I'll have to see what I can dig up.
     
  28. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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  29. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    I like PJ's top 10 men.
     
  30. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Me, too. I just replaced Plushy with Scott Hamilton.
     
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