Pj Kwong's Blog

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by shutterbug, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. shutterbug

    shutterbug Well-Known Member

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  2. tapper88

    tapper88 New Member

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    Thank you! PJ said hopefully by tomorrow night Tessa's interview will be up :)
  3. MysticHaze

    MysticHaze Member

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    Thanks for posting those! They are definitely worth a read.
  4. karen

    karen Member

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  5. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting.

    I like they are doing a Latin FD. A real departure from the past. Can't wait to see it.
  6. karen

    karen Member

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    You're welcome :) I'm looking forward to the latin FD as well. I'm still not sure I'm sold on the waltz/tango combination in the short dance. Oh well. I think I'll wait and see how the short dances look on the Grand Prix to start making judgements.
  7. Simone411

    Simone411 aka IceSkate98

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    Thanks for all the blog posts. I'm pleased with Tomas Verner's choice of the instrumental version of Singing in the Rain for his SP. Tomas mentioning that he was inspired by Gene Kelly and Kurt Browning's versions was a nice touch. I'm looking forward to watching his SP this year.
  8. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the post!

    I am actually intrigued by their SD concept being similar to "The Great Gatsby". Looking forward to their Latin FD also and see what they will come up with...but generally not a fan of the Latin rhythm though...
  9. meteor16

    meteor16 New Member

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    Thanks for posting !!
  10. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    So, how would a Tango/Waltz/Tango done during the Great Gatsby Era look like?

    And Samba/Rhumba/Samba. Is that what Faiella/Scalli did back in 2003/2004 (I think that was the season)? I'm trying to think what a Samba on Ice looks like.
  11. piano18

    piano18 New Member

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    In the paragraph about the FD music being modern and not at all old school, I just want to ask what, to her is old school?

    Secondly, I wish they will be cognizant of staying within the bounds of figure skating and ice dancing and please don't fall into a trap that can fall in Shpilband's camp concerning fast paced FDs: short strokes, short edges, fast short track skating into elements that give the impression of gymnastastical short track skaters. At least they have fleetingly good figure skating speed (yes, FIGURE SKATING speed!) not fake short track speed so please take your time during those step sequences and keep that style and not become an Igor Shpilband short track skating team.

    i will Wait to see if they have new step sequences too...
    Also PJ quoted in the blog about them using a tango being on either side of the waltz; Tango-Waltz-Tango; is this such a good idea? So many teams immersing tango rhythm in their SD, even juniors!

    Also, one-minute of the Golden Waltz is just too little. Most teams all struggle with the second iteration. Skaters should do 2 CDs in the SD.:swoon:
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  12. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Well there is not much choice. Tango, Waltz, Blues and something else. Not a lot of variety to pick from.
  13. Allen

    Allen Glad to be back!

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    Maybe I just need to actually watch a short dance, but this concept seems really bizarre to me right now. I just feel like having a random pattern of Golden Waltz in the middle of your program is going to be really weird (I guess they can put it anywhere in the program, but still).
  14. MarieM

    MarieM Well-Known Member

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    Latin FD ... I fear the worst :(
  15. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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    Honestly, I'm excited about V/M's Latin FD. It's been a while since they've been down that road, and I think it's about time they revisit the style. I have no doubt they will do it justice. As for the tango/waltz/tango SD, if I had heard that a month ago, I would have been terrified for them, but after attending the Thornhill competition a few weeks ago I think it will work. Paul/Islam (Canadian junior champs who moved senior this year) performed their SD to a tango theme, and they absolutely knocked it out of the park. The golden waltz portion was incorporated into the program seamlessly, and it really didn't stand out in hash contrast to the rest of the music. In fact, they managed to make the waltz steps look like a tango. Having seen that combining the styles can actually work very well, I have no doubt that V/M's SD will be awesome.
  16. MarieM

    MarieM Well-Known Member

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    The last time we had latin FD it was a DISASTER.
    May I remind everyone of Gritshuk and Platov 95 Latin FD ?? Or anyone who did one before ?

    The only ones who did something quite nice were Dubreuil & Lauzon, and it was a tango.
  17. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    No surpise - all, what V-M are doing, is worst for you :D

    What V-M thinking about there FD after C-Z must changed there Latin combo FD because it wasnt good FD?

    And maybe D-W will not have tango FD? S-B, V-M had tango music in there SDs
  18. *Carol*

    *Carol* New Member

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    I'm trying to remember of a modern samba song that a non brazilian can now..I don't know.
  19. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  20. vassily

    vassily New Member

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    I am happy they are doing a Latin dance...they were not my favourites in the past couple years, but am starting to grow on me. For someone being familiar with Great Gatsby, i am even more interrested to see what they will do in this dance.
    In regarding the music chioce of modern music, I think- Is exactly what it is. Old school, not modern music. :shuffle: Of couurse not classical, maybe something made in past 10 years?

    Then you sure must have not watched much dance in the past decade because the majoirty of their skaters, with the exception of a few did not show this. in the past when so many people on this and other board talk about the 'speed skating' of a certain couple- Davis white, this is truly reflecting on them, not a generalisation of their other dance couples. To hear the same statement said by so many others again and again, I don't feel it is too fair for them or their coach.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  21. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't answer the question. What's old school, and what's modern? When I was growing up, "old school" rap referred to stuff made in the 1970s. Recently, I was told that "old school" rap/hip hop now includes stuff made in the 1990s -- the very stuff we were calling "new school"! Where's the dividing line with tango music?
  22. *Carol*

    *Carol* New Member

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    First and second links are absolutley not samba songs. Shakira mixed african influences in this song, samba also have roots in africa, but is is not samba.

    The 3 link have a samba beat but its more african, I think Navarro and Bometre used this song to their african/brazilian horrible OD.

    I love this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzFt7A34e0M but agian it is not a standart samba but have strong influence. This is is also nice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50SuEs-ER0Y&feature=related and mayve go well with rumba, but the lyrics are dark from the dictatorial time in Brazil.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  23. vassily

    vassily New Member

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    That is a funny story- in latin and tango music it is hard to tell the boundary. but I think the modern she talked about is the music of mainstream culture currently. Could show pop, hiphopp, or just any music that is within waht is popular among younger listeners. but it is just a guess...
  24. frisette70

    frisette70 Active Member

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  25. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    That was because Latin just did not suit G&P. They were rough skaters, the program lack refinement and it was messy messy messy. Plus her long legs with big feet in that very very short fru-fru skirt made her look like a praying mantis. It was a dog's breakfast all over.

    V&M are much better than that. But I also think they need to step out of what they did last season and do something very different. Maybe the Latin will do that for them.

    I would still love to see V&M though do Pink Floyd to its full potential. We never got to see that.
  26. Fallcolor

    Fallcolor New Member

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    Well, skaters (like Meryl D. and Isabelle Delobel) carve huge edges, not short ones, when they skate. But because their leg lines are shorter than most skaters, it shouldn’t be confused with skaters who actually have choppy skating. Ooops off topic :D

    Many thanks to PJ for this interview…I, like everyone else is super stoked to see this new free dance. But most importantly I can’t wait to see what Tessa will wear! Hopefully she can ditch those long, shin-length dresses she wears all the time, and get a shorter dress or skirt that is a bit more revealing. Want to see diva Tessa this season. :smokin: As for the short dance are their levels being assigned in the waltz? I’m :confused: as to how this would work. Agree with Aussiewilly about wanting to see PF again...had last season not been an Olympic one, a healthy
    V/M would have probably been able to skate to it the way it was supposed to be choreographed. Still, I expect this Latin free dance to have some detailed, voidy choreography. They are more than capable of handling that.

    Crossing my fingers that Verner will be one of the two men I want to win a medal at worlds this year… long overdue for a medal. His skating has always reminded me a bit of Chris Bowman/Kurt Browning…so his short program should be memorable. :swoon:
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  27. piano18

    piano18 New Member

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    Yes, thank you for agreeing with me on this!! Short-edges, short stroking; I hate! :D

    AND given that you bring Davis & White as examples of the "short-track" skaters that was mentioned in the above, well, you said it not me! I said nothings! :cheer:
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  28. piano18

    piano18 New Member

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    Short Edges = the LENGTH of the edge, not necessarily depth and absolutely not steepness of the edge! Anyone watching any skating, fan or not could see this :lol: tons of short edges, strokes to get from point A to B, almost looking like running on toepicks. That is short edges and short strokes I just cannot STAND. :mad:

    Anyways back on topics :)

    Tessa needs to improve her skating more. The basicness of her skating, steep edge, positioning is really good already, she needs to do MORE, more power, more of everything, like Domnina does have.

    "Old school" is indeed a very icky sticky term. The old school R&B- or so I came to know it- Sam Cooke, Dinah Washington, Gladys Knight; now, I often hear "old school R&B" being coined to Whitney Houston, Peabo Bryson, and even Mariah Carey :eek:!!! (maybe use of the term '"old School" is used more appropriately to define Mariah, when back then she really could actually SING, she can't even sing now anymore :()
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  29. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Whoa! An OGM isn't enough? :eek:

    I am not sure exactly what you are referring to, but I don't think there is much more she needs to do. It is all pretty much there.
  30. vassily

    vassily New Member

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    Maybe I was not that clear with you (sorry for unclear words), but I didn’t agree with you. Merely was saying that regardeless of who is the coach, so many young teams growwing up in the new system are not great at refinement and poliish etc. that tends to show more in lower, younger skaterd and not much so with the top ones. Sorry if i talked Davis-white, but i thought you were talking about them because so many others have used to talk about them using 'speed skating' terms. :)
  31. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    But i think her maine problem is her injury and pain with wich she skated :(
    I think in Flamenco at OG and WCh she had a lot off power.
  32. Fallcolor

    Fallcolor New Member

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    Hmm, I don't see any weaknesses in Tessa at all, unless you count the occasional slipup on twizzles now and then if that is a fault. They have plenty of power in their skating, what they could use now, is a powerful style. Try giving their Flamenco OD to a lesser team and see how others handle it- maintaining the original speed throughout the entire dance, garnering level 4's (in case of olys-level 3's). Most would come to a complete halt just by the holds alone. ;) If Tessa+Scott are able to power through this dance without looking tired then they are doing a pretty darn good job of making it look effortless. They just need to remain healthy right now.

    And then if you skate to soft, lyrical freedances for 3 of 4 seasons, what does one expect, a powerful and dramatic heave ho approach that predominates? :lol: And then when another team continously receives genres that are heavier and dramatic, a bit faux-angst in fashion, then obviously you have an idea of what to expect. So the comparison is not exactly accurate.

    In short I just can't wait to see their new dances!
  33. tapper88

    tapper88 New Member

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    Tessa is a gorgeous figure skater and one of the best in the world. There is nothing wrong with her skating.
  34. piano18

    piano18 New Member

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    I don't know why anyone would ever think theeres something so wrong with her skating, let alone those perfect twizzles (yes, her twizzle technique is the best, not "slip-up" :cool:). But anyways, I despise twizzles. Twizzles don't = skating skills. Skaters stay on flat edges to twizzle. Her technique, I mean the REAL skating technique, not gimmick twizzles is currently the best, it's obvious. The basics are nearly perfect, even in 2005 she couldn't have a badly turned edge. However she can still improve more, much more; power and everything else. I see the MOST potential for her. And that is a good thing :rollin:! When was it said there was something wrong with her skating? is it when I suggested she improve her skating in getting some more power? Everything is there of course, the entire skill set, I think she has the most potential to get better. And that can only be good! Unless her pain limits her best ability of course. If she improves a lot then their compulsory dances will be most excellent.

    And also, having a more powerful style does not mean having the most powerful skating :lol:!
  35. Pratfall

    Pratfall Active Member

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    :)Tessa and Scott always say they are striving to improve..( No resting on laurels, bravo for them !)I do think they've shown power when their choreography required it, but there's always room to work toward perfection. That goes for anybody.
    And I'm very sure I would not want Tessa to be emulating Domnina . She's much better off working to be the best Tessa.;)
    geoskate and (deleted member) like this.
  36. Fallcolor

    Fallcolor New Member

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    Twizzles are done on inside or outside edges, just like how pairs/dance spins (and death spirals) can be done the same way. ;) And the change of edge is what makes it more difficult, and the assigning of levels.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  37. piano18

    piano18 New Member

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    YES!:):) Thank you. The same can be said for everyone of course,, not just Virtue. I say her because she already has the best basics now, Faiella is good too, she can get these improvements as well, V&M though, have tons of potential to get better, especially her and that is a GOOD thing. :)

    Leaves and all :lol: Yes, she should be working to be the best of herself, not copy Domnina's style or anyone else for that matter. Poor Domnina was not at all herself in Vancouver, all that lack of training really phucked up their execution, which is tragic because their skating is when at their best, beautiful, powerful and smooth like the CD. But she's retired now..
  38. piano18

    piano18 New Member

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    Skaters must stay on a FLAT edge when twizzling, everyone sees this!! Catch an edge and you've splatted yourself..hard. Teams CHANGE on outside/inside edge is to get momentum & enter on their second set of twizzles, especially most obvious for those teams who twizzle on one-foot. (but they still stay on flats while twizzling)...it's obvious!

    Twizzles are done on flat edges, if not everyone would be falling over themselves and their partners.

    BTW, Assigning of twizzle's levels:
    http://www.chnfs.org/ISU/COMMUNICATION/1496-e.pdf

    Skaters enter on either one of the four edges before madly twizzling on flats. Yes, FLAT edges when twizzling.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  39. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Twizzles are bloody hard. That is why so many skaters, even the top ones, have trouble with them. And that is why they are given credit.

    The difference between a twizzle and a three turn is actually in the knee action. You do not want to see any pumping of knee to generate the turn. And what you are trying to achieve is being on the right part of the blade so you get that balance point.
  40. Pratfall

    Pratfall Active Member

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    ;)Right, AW.. not to mention synchronizing with your partner on top of all that. If it was so easy, it would hardly have been a required element.
    :rolleyes:Just want to clarify..To me V/M's position at the top of the world is unquestionable right now..But there is enough talent coming up behind them ( notably D/W ) that they couldn't afford to coast , even if they wanted to... which they do not.
    I thought D/S were very fortunate that the CD was Tango at the Olympics , but you know, Max WAS that dance. His costume was baggy enough that his lines were somewhat obscured ( which normally drives me wild in a CD), but I could forgive it, because his expression was pure Tango.. He was so mesmerizing , I could barely spare a glance for Domnina.
    V/Ms expression was also good but more equally balanced and slightly more restrained. Timing for both teams seemed excellent though they made some different choices in accent. and they were not that far ahead of V/M when it was over..So I think that it's not a good example to use to point out what Tessa needs to work on.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010