PJ Kwong: What is wrong is the failure of some to learn how the sport is scored

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, May 4, 2013.

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Is PJ Kwong right?

Poll closed Jun 4, 2013.
  1. Yes

    78 vote(s)
    56.5%
  2. No

    60 vote(s)
    43.5%
  3. Don't Know

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Why? I judged high-level roller skating competitions with that system (well, basically 10.0). There were often 30-40 skaters. I simply wrote down my scores based on the quality of the performance, regardless of whether or not it was the first skater, one in the middle, or the last skater. Except in the case of maybe the top three skaters, I did not need to try and calculate how each skater was going to be ranked. The scores were the important thing, the rankings were just what they were. It was never up to me to figure out the ordinal placements. They were simply determined by my scores.

    How is that so different?
     
  2. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Under 6.0 you are not allowed to tie a skater. So you constantly have to consider where you slot skaters into their placements. And allow room with the early skaters to slot in the later skaters. So no the scores do not determine the results. It is specifically placements. And when you are considering your marks you constantly have that in mind.
     
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  3. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Not that I don't believe you, but I could swear I've seen a number of ties in 6.0 (from individual judges)...

    That wasn't an issue with roller competitions and, with 10.0, there was much more wiggle room.
     
  4. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Well when I have used it for judging, I have been told you can't tie skaters. Ah but maybe if you have seen ties that is because it is very easy to give skaters the same marks if you have a large field. Just another of the many problems with the 6.0 system.
     
  5. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what would happen if the ISU would ever go back to the 6.0 (slim chance I know), and people complained about the results the way they are now. Will we see PJ Kwong blaming fans for simply not knowing the scoring system? Would we have apologists talking about the virtues of 6.0 over COP? Would we have detractors critiquing all the short-falls of 6.0? Basically, will we have the same arguments we're having now?
     
  6. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    More or less, I expect.

    Some people who loved the 6.0 system and hate IJS might stop complaining and go back to enjoying everything they enjoyed about the 6.0 system, keeping any quibbles to themselves to show support for their favored system.

    People who love IJS and would be sorry to lose it might complain more about 6.0 results and processes than they would if they didn't feel that their favored system had been taken from them.

    People who don't care so much about the system but just love to complain would continue to complain. That includes people who understand and enjoy nitpicking about details, and also people who don't know much about skating technique and will probably be bewildered by results regardless of the scoring system.
     
  7. bek

    bek Guest

    Well it depends Aussie. You have many saying that the system insists that the words Performance/Execution don't mean that and that its perfectly acceptable according to the system for some to get enormously high P/e mark and other PCS for programs that are messy with glaring errors.

    If this is true than I think its perfectly fair for people to say the system is flawed. That the actual execution of the entire program should matter. And that skaters with high reputations shouldn't be guaranteed huge PCS gap no matter how they skate.

    If PCS like that are perfectly ridiculous and skaters should be marked down harder for bigger glaring issues. Than fine its the judging.

    Either I think what many are saying is they don't like the results the system is producing.

    I find it really insulting that the folks not understanding the system argument. As if the system is more important than skating itself.

    There is a problem and blaming fans isn't enough. Not to mention there are plenty of very knowledgable skaters complaining about the results. You can say they don't understand the system, but they certainly know skating. And they are perfectly entitled to say the results aren't right. Your not going to convince those people that somehow Patrick skated better overall even if the math as done by the system argues it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2013
  8. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
     
  9. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I would suggest stop trying to turn my posts into something they are not. I commented on people confusing human decision making and the system. And then trying to use arguments about human decision making as justification for why the system doesn't work. What you have said is totally irrelevant to my post.