Pechalat/Bourzat move to Shpilband

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by morqet, May 20, 2013.

  1. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    And (like it or not) Igor and Marina changed the face of dance and are considered by most federations the best technicians out there.
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  2. cholla

    cholla Fearless Musher

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    (^^Emphasis = mine) Céline Nony, who wrote the article, does care about skating. I mean, as far as a French journalist can :lol: IMHO L'Equipe isn't that bad at all. Whether it's the paper or online version doesn't make a difference since most of the writers are the same. It's main flaw is the de facto monopoly it has over sport news since it's the only daily sport paper in the entire country. But I agree skating is hardly their main concern. It comes from the fact skating isn't popular in France at all. L'Equipe sells what's its readers want to read. It doesn't make it a bad paper all in all ;)
  3. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

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    It really mustn't be popular... at this point I receive more visitors from Finland on the site than from France (and no, they're not looking for Kiira Korpi)... IIRC usually the cringe worthy articles from France are from smaller newspapers.

    As to P/B, even if Krylova and Camerlengo didn't do their choreographies, they didn't bring out the best in them either, they seemed to have lost something when they moved to the US... I hope this move gives them what they need to have a successful season.
  4. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    It is weird to see so many people with favorable opinions about Igor. :) Times have certainly changed.
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  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    They won their only world medal under Krylova and Camerlengo.
  6. skatak

    skatak Well-Known Member

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    Interview with Nathalie in l'Equipe :
    http://www.lequipe.fr/Patinage-artistique/Actualites/Pechalat-waouh-le-mec/372527

    Rapid translation :
    The change of coach less than one year before OG :
    Didier G came to Detroit last week, met with Pasquale and with Igor, and brought us his conclusions about the one that could help us most, that seemed the most concerned. Working with Igor is Didier's idea, but it's a good one.

    Meeting with Igor
    Last week. His political power is talked about, but most of all he is a super technician. There are 8 months left before OG, it's now that we have to learn new things. We want to give ourselves all the chances.

    Reactions of former coaches.
    Anjelika thought it would be better for us to stay, but wished us the best. Pasquale was very mean. I know him for 13 years, and he reacted very badly. I can understand that he is very upset, but that's the game. Not easy to say goodbye, but we have to thinkg about our career.

    What Igor will bring
    When talking with him, we felt motivaton. He wanted to hear the musics of our new programs, to know with whom we had created them in France.... Some very specific points like had we send the music of the SD to judges to know if it is ok for the rythmn. He introduced us to people he works with, we started to work with an acrobat.
    DG told us 'do what Igor say, follow his strategy'. We already started to change the diagonal step seq and improved spins with his wife. With him, we have all the tools, he is very efficient.

    Other teams on ice
    Not that many actually. Around 5 each day incl.Chock/Bates and Riazanova/Tkachenko. Cappellini/Lanoote and Carron/Jones come for training periods.
  7. cholla

    cholla Fearless Musher

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    The reason Nathalie is upset is Pasquale's reaction.

    Her exact words are : "Pasquale was very hurtful. I've known him since I was 13 y.o. [he was one of her coaches in Lyon] and I took it very badly."

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  8. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Seriously? They always have very different and creative programs.

    That is until now. Bye bye interesting P&B :( :( :(
  9. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    WOW WOW WOW... I think this is a great move for them. I am smiling from ear to ear!

    I hope that Igor enties Fabian to show better facial expression. I am sure that he will add the crisp cleanliness in their technique that they need. I just hope that there's enough time to make the necessary improvements.
  10. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    It's the Olympic season. Delobel and Schoenfelder are the poster children for being interesting and leaving without a medal. This won't guarantee P/B one, with the Olympics in Sochi and B/S the reigning bronze medalists, but it ups the odds.
  11. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and as you can see I had completely forgotten about it! :lol: I don't think that had much to do with the coaches but more with them finally not effing it.

    I'm kind of surprised they weren't doing some of these things with their previous coaches!

    You know, Fabian will never be the most expressive guy on the ice, it's just the way he is, but there's a lot that is lost on tv so depending on whether you've seen hm person or not, maybe is he is not has bad as you think.
  12. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Yes, seriously, that is my opinion. I thought they were more avant garde earlier in their careers. I don't think they've done anything "different or creative" since their Time FD and even that they gave up on. On the other hand I think they are one of the better teams in the world and true ice dancers.

    As far as Pascale being hurtful at the split it's maybe not surprising considering what Didier had to say. When Didier went to speak with him it must have been hostile to start with having been called a worm ;)
  13. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    But they would have left with a medal had it not been for their lack of training time together.
  14. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    They lost training time in 2006 when they lost bronze to one of the weakest teams to medal at the Olympics?
  15. victoriajh

    victoriajh Well-Known Member

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    Isabel had a baby like 7or 8 months before the Olympics as i recall?
  16. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    Less than 5 months before the compulsory dances started, actually. Baby was born Oct 1st and compulsories started Feb 19th. Still :eek: she managed to get back into competitive shape that quickly, but the lost training time & lack of mileage on their programs definitely hurt them.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating_at_the_2010_Winter_Olympics_–_Ice_dancing
    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091002&content_id=7281494&vkey=ice_news

    Ah, GrushGons & the power of :TT1:'s politiking. I didn't like D/S's free dance that year as much as Frieda the year before, but I do remember being upset they narrowly missed out on the bronze medal.
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  17. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    People are confusing 2006 and 2010. 2010 is when she had a baby and had about 5 months after giving birth to prepare for the Olympics. 2006 was where they placed second in the Free Dance, but narrowly lost the bronze because of their placement in the compulsory and original dances. Delobel/Schoenfelder's creative free dances seemed to have served them well. It was the other phases and leaving points off of the table that hurt them (and IMO, politick for Grushina/Gonchorov).

    I can see where people were confused though. 2002, 2006, and 2010 had probably the worst Olympic bronze medalists in Ice Dancing history (either the teams themselves or the performances that they gave).
  18. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Delobel/Schoenfelder had a wonderfully creative OD in 2006: they did a Cuban mambo, not a same-old Latin OD.

    I don't put F-P/M and Domnina/Shabalin in the same category as G/G.
  19. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Oh you're right. I loved their OD because it was different from the others.
  20. skaterdelight

    skaterdelight New Member

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    Agree! Loved what they did with Krylova and Camerlengo 2011-2012 season; same with Weaver and Poje. Both teams had interesting, original, expressive and very artistic programs and execution. 2012-2013 season, both teams had injuries and seemed to be searching for their next move (which is not unusual - one progressive good year, next, maybe not as good). Still technically, Shpilbaum is very good, just kind of generic and schmaltzy programs.
  21. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but even after that Krylova said that most of that was because of Zhulin. She said that they had just begun to listen to her and that she looked forward to changing them more the next season.
    Granted they were still great in 2013 but I do feel that their world medal in 2012 was more Zhulin than her.
  22. geoskate

    geoskate Well-Known Member

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    Like many, I want to know the reaction of C/L.

    Also, I wonder how this will affect Weaver/Poje. They have probably benefited from having Pechalat/Bourzat as training mates, but perhaps this will mean greater focus on them from their coaches for this season.

    The coaching dramas in ice dance over the past two seasons almost match the dramas from the period of the three great Russian divas.
  23. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I think that WP being the leaders in their team will be good for their confidence going into the olympics.
  24. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    When Del/Schoen won their only world title in 2008, it was with (in my opinion) one of their most boring FDs. Yeah, they had all the sign language stuff, but it was a very typical, well-worn romantic theme. :bleah: I would MUCH rather they'd have won a world title with their Untouchables FD :) (Although at least they had the Gavotte for their OD that season; that was cool and unlike any of the other folk ODs out there that season.)
  25. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    I am most disappointed to hear about this. I hope for the sake of the relationship that apparently meant a lot to Pechelat things can be resolved. I can understand Pasquale being upset. He might have turned away other work because of the French or perhaps put a lot of stock in being the one to coach them to an Olympic medal. Still, I believe that Being cruel or mean was not necessary.

    P/B- It sounds like they are open to Igor's leadership. They are experienced dancers so they probably absorb quickly. I do wish them the best. Igor sounds like he is committed to success. Sending music to judges etc. what a professional. I have met him before and he has a kindness that is opposite the arrogance you would expect. Pasquale would slam a door in your face...
  26. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    Your point does sober me while removing my optimism lol. For the record, I have seen them skate live many times and what you see on television is Fabian being "revved up". I'm still excited about this coaching change and especially happy that they seem to be willing to absorb Igors knowledge. If they play their cards right they could be great. They definitely (well Nathalie at least) has a charm that is infectious.

    I'm hoping that Igor has experience working with teams with this type of injury. He will probably be able to make more intelligent training decisions. He strikes me as the kind of guy who is well connected so he might know a medical/sports professional that can assist. How is Fabian's injury anyway?
  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Relevant P/B excerpt from the April 19th French skaters article posted here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...-Fran%E7aise&p=3905627&viewfull=1#post3905627
    Their upcoming shows are "Art on Ice" (June 1-2 in Japan) and "Artistry on Ice" (4 shows, June 8-16 in Taiwan and China).

    ETA this P/B interview (May 8) from when they were in Geneva, Switzerland for "Music on Ice" in late April: http://www.absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=interviews&id=2013pechalatbourzat
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Why are you assuming that?
  29. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I actually love their Piano FD. I'm usually a fan of their more creative work, but I think I'd rank The Piano up there. Maybe not as high as their Frida FD or their Masquerade 2006 FD but higher than their Untouchables FD actually which didn't really do anything for me. I think for me, my fandom of the DelSchoes was less about creativity (though it played a big factor) but more to do with their skating skills and execution. I just loved their soft knees and deep edges. They were incredibly smooth on the ice.

    Anyway, I guess it's worth noting that they too lost the FD in 2008 to Virtue/Moir, but based on TES.

    Creativity and doing out-of-the-box routines are great, but if you're a top team and want to medal, you better make sure their technique and difficulty are high.
  30. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    A brave and smart decision. It really is going to be a great battle for the bronze. Between the french, russian and italian teams.
  31. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    Well if we're lucky, the judges will finally fall out of love with the overrated V&M and D&W, bring their scores back to earth where they should be and we'll get a nice battle for the whole podium. I know it won't happen, but I can still dream can't I? :D
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  32. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    If things change to the point where D&W and V&M are battling for anything other than the top two spots and their and other teams' level of skating stay more-or-less the same, then D&W and V&M will go from overrated to underrated.
  33. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    To each their own. I've never agreed that D&W and V&M are 15 points better than the likes of P&B (just as one example), but that's what the judges have perpetuated over the last quad. I guess I'm just sick of both and want some massive upsets to happen.

    Peoples used to complain about Ice Dance being boring and predictable in the past, but it's been worse over this last quad than at any other time imo.
  34. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    You mean more predictable than when Grishuk/Platov went undefeated for four seasons in a row? Or Bestemianova/Bukin? Torvil/Dean? Even Navka/Kostomorov from 2004-2006?

    At least this time, we have two teams on top who are trading titles.
  35. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    Yes, when you like neither team that are deemed the co-Patrick Chan's of dance, it's mighty boring. When it's clear whose turn it is to win a certain competition that does make it predictable.

    So yeah, I'm gonna be optimistic (or delusional depending on how you see it) that a team other than V&M or D&W win the Olympics. That's my right. :D

    Anyway, enough derailing of the thread. I think this is a good move for P&B. As has been said, they tend to make really weird technical mistakes and Shpilband can help with that.
  36. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Both VM and DW will have gone undefeated for 5 seasons in a row except to each other! 2009-2010, 2010-2011, 2011-2012, 2012-2013 and 2013-2014!! If D/W continue after 2014 who knows how many seasons! 6, 7, 8 more??? It's not even close! Big deal with N/K 4 point victory at the 2006 Olympics! Now all victories are 15-20 points! Everyone stinks but VM and DW to judges.

    Good luck to P/B!! They are so great.
  37. marathongirl76

    marathongirl76 New Member

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    V&M are in a league of their own; it is D&W that are totally over-rated. Their basic skating technique is non-existent; they pick across the ice and don't have any depth of edge, and they just skip and hop into and and between their elements. They have no extension or refinement in their movements; their lifts are basic and are made to fool the eye that they are difficult, when they are not.

    DW shouldn't even be even in the top 10, much less World Champs.

    P&B, W&P, C&L, B&S, heck, even that other Russian team (names elude me at the moment), those of the Ghost-hot-mess-of-a-program-infamy, have solid technique. They're not hacking it it like D & W.

    I've always liked P & B, but they always see to falter in big competitions and they lack V & M's refinement. But their basic technique is beautiful, and they always come up with good programs; looking forward to their programs this season.
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  38. BittyBug

    BittyBug Quadless

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    :rofl:

    Please pass whatever you've been drinking. :summer:
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  39. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Because I have yet to see anything out of Camp Shpilband that is as interesting as most of P/B's past programs. And if they are going to him to get the big politicking push for the Olympic year, I imagine they have been instructed to do what he says.
  40. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    That was in 2010, not 2006. D/S weren't in contention, as hard as they tried, in Vancouver, due to her pregnancy. They should have been on the podium in 2006.