Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by morqet, May 20, 2013.
Announcement from FFSG
Anything that could help fix Fabian's twizzle/ftwk struggles is a good thing, IMO.
They want their Olympic medal, and they made the move most likely to help them get it. Since they'll be getting their choreo elsewhere and Igor is a great technical coach (and politically savvy, too) this strikes me as a very smart move.
Finally they'll have politicks on their side.
They want their Oly medal and Russia wants its Oly medal. How's this going to play out?
It does seem like a very good move for them.
Wow! Interesting bit of news to help move along the slow off season. I guess it makes sense, especially to polish the technical elements where P/B lost ground last season. The C/K coaching camp is pretty large right now, but I think Shpilband's group is growing too...maybe not as much as a full time base. And most people were talking of a potential D/W, V/M, Shib Sibs move after the Zoueva/Shpilband break up. I didn't see this one coming!
IMHO opinion, it's an excellent choice, not only politically. They are hard workers who love and need to learn and improve all the time. The way Shpilband's camp is structured, with all the teachers and specialists, is exactly what they need right now. Their programs are built but there is room for lots of new work and improvments.
I think it's a smart move for them and their federation wouldn't allow it if they didn't know something. That being the tide is with Igor and he is coaching a nice little international stable of dance teams now.
I think it's bad news for Marina's teams. Unfortunately, from my preference, I think it´ll play out worse for V&M. Igor coaches an American team, no Canadians. The top two Canadian teams are with Krylova and Marina and Igor is getting the nod ahead of them.
But I do like P&B a lot and to them for having the balls and guts and determination to do what they need to get results. I think the harsh comments that came from Didier (??) following worlds gave hint a coaching change was coming.
eta..link to thread about Didier's comments post worlds:
The off season finally gets exciting! A little surprising but I think this is a good move for them. As others have noted, their tecnik needed work and Shpilband is surely good for that.
I suppose we've all been waiting for a medal contending team to move to Igor. I think it's a good move for P/B, and I am happy for Igor too, that he has established quite a stable of ice dancers in such short time (not a surprise, but good that it has happened as expected).
C&L finished ahead of P&B at worlds and are mainly coached by Spilband; at this point I would consider them more likely medal contenders than P&B. I wonder what they think about this move.
I think P&B are better skaters than C&L so if they are both getting the Igor Bump it should work in favour of the French team.
I just hope Fabian can stay healthy and uninjured. I think that'll end up affecting results more than anything. I still wish they'd go back to the Zazoui & Co.
P/B skated at Worlds even though Fabian wasn't recovered from his injury. Because they are not stupid, they've since made it very clear that they were skating even though they knew they weren't ready, because Olympic slots were on the line. I think most judges still consider them, if not the top European team, then in close competition with B/S for that title. Going to Igor Shpilband, both in terms of coaching ability and in terms of politics, can only help them - and I seriously doubt they'd have made the switch without some assurance as to how he views them (= his top team for the coming season; a better question would be what C/B think of this move).
Charming as Anna and Luca are, P/B are better skaters.
I think C&B are well placed to make the US Oly team and beyond that they are about the next Oly cycle so probably not a big deal for them.
I've heard it over and over and over that C&L are good but just not good enough, but after how they skated last season I don't buy it anymore. They are crisp and precise in a way P&B have never been. Maybe Shpilband will change that I don't know.
That said, I've never thought C&L had a chance at an Oly medal. I've thought it was V&M, P&B, B&S, and D&W. One of them is going to be left out, but I don't have any idea which one.
I'd still have P/B ahead of C/L - P/B beat them twice before Bourzat's injury last season, by 5 points at the GPF, 15 at TEB, and yes C/L came out on top at Worlds, but it was clear that Bourzat was not at full fitness.
It will be interesting to see if this move means C/L will work more closely with Mezzadri though. It may be tough for him to balance so many teams - P/B, C/B, T/S, C/L plus I think R/T are going to him over the summer again? I guess this may also scupper the idea that I/K would be working with him in some capacity, it would just be too many teams.
I expected a nice influx for Shpilband, but never would have considered P&B! I wonder if W&P passing them at Worlds was also a part of that. I know that both teams are injured so it's not necessarily an accurate reflection of their standing, but still, it couldn't last forever if they were competing for the same places.
It's so weird that the day has come that I would be rooting for teams to go to Shpilband.
He was once known for coaching many of the teams in the US top 10... I wonder how many of the Worlds top 10 he can get his hands on. He has connections to C&L, I&K, R&T, C&B, P&B, and formerly the Shibs, D&W, and V&M! Geez.
From what I know, it was the Fed that did this and Nat was very upset about it.
I guess we also can't forget that in that article linked about Didier calling Pascale a "worm" based on the results of P&B in London. If P&B are funded by the federation and the federation is publicly hating on their coaches it might have made the coaching situation impossible and P&B had no choice but to leave. They all seemed more than happy 2012 in Nice.
I typed too slowly. If that's the case I feel for them. Second coaching change forced upon them.
Their FB update from half an hour ago is the FFSG's press release. Since Nathalie is normally much more chatty when she posts, I'm guessing that this is true, at least to some extent.
For me, it comes from Guaillaguet too. Just supposition though but that's how I see it. I feel so sorry for Krylova and Camerlengo, the best coaches IMO together with Zazoui's team & maybe Zhulin too.
So now, almost all the top ten teams at last worlds are in the hands of two persons. So depressing. Ice dancing needs variety.
They have always used outside choreographers anyway. So nothing to worry about in that regard.
I hope that it's not true about them being forced against their will, though. On second thought, it might be in their best interests.
They have always been a creative and original team that stood out from the crowd. But the technical elements have been their achilles heel. Shpilband is the best coach in the world as far as addressing that goes.
They could sure do better than the Free Dances they had the last two seasons.
I agree. I think they need more work on the artistic side. Krylova seemed more than capable of getting her teams decent levels.
Yes, as much as Krylova & Camerlango are lauded for creativity, I did not care for those dances at all, nor for W&P's last 3 FDs. I greatly prefer Camerlango's work with Takahashi.
"Nathalie Péchalat et Fabian Bourzat ont accepté la proposition fédérale de changer d’entraîneurs"
It says P/B agreed to switch coach even though the idea was from the FFSG. But l'équipe, specially their website, is most of the time a very bad newspaper. And they just do not care about skating at all.
I didn't think Camerlengo did their programs? I think they get their programs done by their usual choregraphers in France and then train them with Krylova?
Will be interesting to see if Igor lets them keep the programs they already have made or will he get them to switch like he did with C&L. If I recall correctly Igor isn't comfortable working on programs others have made because he doesn't have their vision.
Many of P/B's programs were done by outside choreographers rather than their coaches, and their ISU biography lists Ilia Ifraimov and Kader Belmoktar as last season's SD and FD choreographers, respectively - so don't blame or credit Krylova and Camerlengo. Their programs for next season were put together with Laurie May and Julien Cottereau. They've worked with May for years, and Cottereau (a clown) was involved in choreographing Circus and Chaplin.
Camerlengo's work with Takahashi is indeed fantastic.
Well, the French fed encouraged the move but P/B agreed to go and AFAIK nothing was forced upon them.
French federation is playing politics again !
Not a surprise !
What makes Igor so powerful politically? I wonder. Maybe he (and Morozov) hang out in hotel bars more than most?
Most federations, at least the bigger ones, politik - so indeed, that a federation would involve itself in such a thing is not a surprise. The FFSG is useless at (effective) politikking, however. If anything, I would characterize this move as outsourcing; clearly Shpilband can do a better job of it.
Before the split from Marina, Igor was a co-coach of the top two teams in the world. That alone should give him some power. It seems other teams have started acknowledging that he had something to do (technically and otherwise) with the success of those two teams. Once D&S and V&M retire, Igor could be in a very good position when it comes to winning gold medals.
He coaches a nice selection of teams from a number of different federations. If one federation likes what he does for their team they might appreciate more the same thing he does for another team in a different federation. He´ll have friends all over the map. In contrast, for example, Marina has one Canadian team and two Americans and their federations are in theory unwilling to work together because they have the same goal. I think Morozov is similar to Igor in that he has a bit of diversity in his stable as well (although I think he had a lot more diversity a few years back which might in part explain why his group are not as successful. I also suspect Igor is a lot more professional and stable than Morozov)
Yeah, but Marina's got a piece of Gracie Gold so she's expanding her conquest of North America, too.
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