Paul and Islam: "No Matter What"

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by kwanfan1818, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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    Add me to the list of people who doesn't get why Poirier is considered superior to Islam. He might look more powerful, but that's because he and Piper spend haf of every program stroking and posing. It's easy to look powerful doing that, and much harder to do so when you're moving in and out of holds seamlessly like P/I do. Furthermore, I can often see the work behind Poirier's movements, but Mitch almost always looks light an fluid, even when lifting. I've never seen any indication that Islam is less technically capable than Alex is. In contrast, I think he's just a shade stronger of a technician than her.
     
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  2. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    Mitchell is a good enough technical skater but he has NO expression, projection, or confidence at all out there, and it is very evident and greatly drags down their performance and desire of the judges to throw big marks. Usually I look at technical abilities before artistry and performance abilities first in dance, but when you are that weak in those areas, it is an exception.

    He is always so nervous going out to compete, and is prone to stupid errors when nervous too.
     
  3. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Paul is forced to do this because of Piper. Look at his programs with Vanessa when he was much younger.
    Agreed that Mitch is very light and fluid but he has to do something to bring out his personality on the ice. Last year he just faded when Alexandra wore that gorgeous red dress. Its almost like how Charlie white had to grow his hair to bring attention to himself. While IMP Charlie ecclipsed meryl in quality her looks made her larger than life.
     
  4. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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  5. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    You cannot compare Paul and Vanessa three or four years ago to Mitch and Alex now! Paul was just a babe then!

    I actually really like both teams you know.
    Didn't like PI when they projected VM lite but they have come into their own now.
     
  6. canadablue

    canadablue New Member

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    Excellent response to such a dumb comment. And I agree about Paul's posture. It's not bad, but it doesn't look natural IMO.

    While Mitch is not as natural as projecting at Alex, I agree with skatingfan04 that to suggest that his expression is nonexistent is silly.
    http://youtu.be/q-1_hSy2u8U?t=1m56s
    And the criteria states the projection can be between the partners rather than out to the audience, which is what they did very well in W.E.

    Projection is also a very small percentage of the criteria, so you simply can't disregard technical ability because of a supposed weakness in that one area. If the judges lose their desire to award marks for all the technical and movement aspects of the skate because they don't like the way the team is performing, they're really bad and/or corrupt judges.

    Yes, you have to judge a skater on the content they're executing, not what their theoretical ability might be. When G/P are executing much simpler content than P/I, it makes it more complicated to rate Paul's skill level next to them. P/I are superior skaters from a judging perspective both because they're superior to Piper and they're executing more difficult content.

    Uh... so which is it? Should we look at his programs with Vanessa to see that he's superior to present-day P/I? If P/I are doing equally or more difficult content as well, does that mean they win? Are we supposed to look at Paul currently skating with Piper, even though he's forced to execute simpler content, and just assume that he's improved at a certain rate since then without him having to actually demonstrate this on the ice for us?

    Oh, ok. You often praise G/P at P/I's expense in this thread, so I get confused and forget that.
     
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  7. lavenderblue

    lavenderblue Active Member

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    Not to interrupt what's been a very interesting discussion that I'd like to add to later, but we have an announcement!!!

    I looked up Sinatra and Estefan and unless they've found some disparate tracks to cut together, they did a duet on "Come Rain or Come Shine" which is...blues/jazz. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2014
  8. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Oh, thank you very much, lavenderblue! I have been waiting for their music announcement quite impatiently. I am glad for the FD music. The Sinatra/Estefan version has no sound on YouTube, but I listened to the Sinatra version. It has some blues in it indeed, and I guess that the duet with Estefan could be even more bluesy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
  9. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Boy, you love to argue.

    I think we should agree to disagree ....I am busy packing for Tahiti and don't have the time to continue this. But I wish both teams well and hope they achieve whatever they want this year.
     
  10. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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    Ok, so we nailed the blues thing right on the head. :D I'm liking this already. It's smooth and sultry. I'm thinking this is the result of their experiment with that gala a few months ago. Definitely a departure from their usual.

    The SD choices are GORGEOUS. I'm surprised they recycled old music, but it's so lovely that I don't mind.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLCbKZ8kvNI
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
  11. lavenderblue

    lavenderblue Active Member

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    I also appreciate the softer, more romantic style that P/I present together (and the new FD should hopefully show that off well!), but I think here connection also means how they move together -- how they respond to one another while dancing and skating, on a more technical level. It's hard to single out particular moments because the very essence of how they perform comes down to being able to move as one, but these isolated examples might give an idea of their strength of connection in that sense, the awareness of one another:

    2011 Nationals FD
    2011 Nationals SD
    2013 Nebelhorn FD
    2014 Worlds FD

    Which is just a sampling, but I think that sort of helps illustrate it?
     
  12. canadablue

    canadablue New Member

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    Finally!! Thanks for informing us lavenderblue. That sounds like an absolutely fabulous choice for them. Something they can use all their strengths, but enough of a new direction to show some real growth too. How exciting!

    And thank you once again because that is exactly what I was trying to describe. They can only skate as close and match as well as they do by that kind of awareness. Perhaps my favourite part of W.E. is the diagonal step sequence, the Worlds performance in particular. The fluid changes of hold, how Mitch twirls her while sustaining his edge, the moment you linked from Nebelhorn, Alex going into a lunge position with their legs lines still managing to match, ending with the seamless reconnection after their final twizzles. It's phenomenal.

    I like to discuss, and I like information to be accurate. Lot of people like to say things that they are either unable to or can't be bothered to back up, but then pretend it's somehow unfair or inappropriate for someone to call them on it when what they're saying is either wrong or not making sense. It's entirely appropriate to point out why criticism of that team and praise of that team's rivals is inaccurate in that team's own thread.
     
  13. geoskate

    geoskate Well-Known Member

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    If P/I continue to progress up the international ranks this season (as I expect they will), I think we can expect additional random posts attacking everything about them, from posters who live in other countries. (I am NOT referring to posts from Canadian posters who see a particular weakness in P/I, and comment on that perceived weakness).

    I think it's actually a compliment to Paul/Islam. IMO it's an indication that certain posters in other coutries feel that P/I are a threat to a team or teams from their own country. IMO people are recognizing that the potential is there now for Paul/Islam to break through to some major achievements in the next season or two, and some posters will see that as a threat to their own favourites.
     
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  14. lavenderblue

    lavenderblue Active Member

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    Although I also think it should be acknowledged that P/I's fanbase certainly extends beyond Canada. I know firsthand that some of their biggest fans are American, and it's clear from Twitter, Facebook, and Tumblr that they have plenty of support in Japan, Germany, Russia, etc. as well. And, of course, there are additional non-Canadian posters in this thread who are supportive of the team.
     
  15. Marta24

    Marta24 Member

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    Well.I`m not Canadian and a huge Paul/Islam fan:biggrinbo. I`m generally a fan of Canadian Ice Dance couples.
    Their choice for the FD sounds great,it`s definitely an opportunity to breach out a little bit. I`m so glad when they changed to Detroit, they chose Krylova/Camerlengo. They actually don`t give their top couples standardized FDs, but try to emphasize their strengths, but still try to challenge them. I loved both FDs they got choreographed by Camerlengo,I`m looking forward to this one.
     
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  16. MissT

    MissT New Member

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    Marta, ditto! :respec: I'm not Canadian either, but I tend to love and support many Candian ice skaters! And ita - i love that they're with Camerlengo/Krylova
     
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  17. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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  18. lavenderblue

    lavenderblue Active Member

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    This article will be useful for several threads, but I'll just put it here for now.

    Summer Practice in the Detroit Area - Ice Skating International

    D/L are confirmed, which was pretty obvious anyway, but medley...
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2014
  19. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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  20. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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