Patrick Uber Thread - road to Sochi

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by spikydurian, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Really? I thought that skaters could fully rely on their coaches to know how the system works and that coaches would for instance have their students practice several different jump scenarios in training to back up for whenever Plan A failed.

    The second paragraph in your post reminded me of a 2008-2009 post-competition phone conversation - don't recall the competition though - between Patrick and a Canadian reporter where the reporter asked Patrick if he knew what his scores meant and he responded something like "No, I don't understand all those numbers, I just know that if I do what my coach tells me to do, I'll be fine." But since Patrick decided to take more responsibility for his training, he would be supposed to be familiar with the IJS rules and, as an example, understand why he got level 3 on a spin and the footwork at Cup of Russia as opposed to level 4s at Skate Canada.


    I could be all wrong but I feel that while a lot of Chan's fans aren't as thrilled with his new programs as they were with Lori's choreos for Patrick, a lot of non-Chan fans who never cared much for his past routines think he has the loveliest programs ever this season. Hmm, interesting.

    I'd much prefer Patrick to skate to Coldplay in his training outfit than the unispiring shirt and pants he wears at galas and shows.
    He looks so slender here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w457-Z38D-4&feature=g-hist
     
  2. elle123

    elle123 New Member

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    Yay, Patrick! Regarding your question, either way it would've not counted since he was maxed out on jump combos/sequences (max is 3 unless I'm mistaken). In hindsight, maybe he probably should've removed either the 2T at the end of the 3F/Lz (I can't remember which one it was) or the 2S from the jump sequence but maybe he didn't practice the scenario of him doubling his 3A...

    I can't speak for anyone else but I love his new programs and I feel like his movement is more free; however, I also loved the ones that Lori choreographed for him. I think it's important as an artist to explore other avenues and obviously, David and Jeffrey have great choreographic credentials.
     
  3. fscric

    fscric Active Member

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    Re the bold part, not me, I'm thrilled that he explores his potential working with Jeff Buttle and David Wilson and I love the outcome. I think these programmes challenge him and energize him, hoping they'll get better as the season goes and peak at the World.
     
  4. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Only triples and quadruples need to be in combination if repeated. You can do two solo 2As and be fine.

    I'd rank Elegy behind Exilados and La Boheme behind Aranjuez, at this point. Both of those programs were so beautifully choreographed to emphasize his unique skill set and, especially the long program, challenged his artistry in an interesting way,
     
  5. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    I really enjoyed his programs at CoR and I am glad he qualified for the GPF.
     
  6. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    I like Exilados because it is an exalting piece of music and it complements Patrick’s superb and super quick foot work. It may not fair to compare La Boheme with Aranjuez because I have seen his best skate of Aranjuez at Nationals. La Boheme is still developing. I actually like the music cut of La Boheme and think it’s very well done. This piece allows him to play different characters and emotions as per the opera, and I must say, it’s growing on me. I think it’s very ‘courageous’ of Patrick to take risk in exploring and expanding his range of choreography with Buttle and Wilson, and artistic movements with Johnson. I am sure he learns a lot from them just as he said, he has learnt a lot from Lori and other coaches. Each and everyone of them have played an important part in skating career as he has acknowledged in his interviews.

    As a fan of Patrick's skating, I was worried when he first made the changes but I can understand his point of exploring and expanding his skills. But having seen his improvements, I am more assured that all is coming together as planned. He did say that not all the changes were planned eg. the technical coach issue. Listening to his interviews on this issue, I think the split was not intended and expected on Patrick’s side but life is such that some times things may not work out the way we want and we need to move on and make the best out of it. I think he may get a technical coach next season. Well….. it’s all heresay from me. :) Only time will tell what Patrick and his 'team' will do. Meanwhile, I will continue to enjoy his skating and cheer him from my pathetic computer screeen. :( Wish I can watch him and other superb skaters live!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  7. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    His 4CC Exilados has always been a favourite of mine.

    I too am growing to love La Boheme. After a couple of watches without my heart in my mouth I too love the cuts of music. The music has stayed with me for the last couple of days and also his movement to it. I think it is on the way to becoming something special.
     
  8. jl22aries

    jl22aries Active Member

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    I posted this in the VM thread but it's also part Patrick so

    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskat...ns-performance-in-moscow-silences-doubts.html

    Scroll down for PJ, Kurt and Tracy and their awesome podcast. The first half is spent talking about Chan. I always love hearing analysts, coaches and experts break down his skating. As much as I already appreciate his glide, the difficulty, his talent, hearing them break down a 5 second section of footwork movement by movement is amazing.
     
  9. PCFan

    PCFan New Member

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    For me both Exilados and Aranjuez are choreographically superior and challenged Patrick to a greater degree than his current programs. But, Patrick performs Elegy/ La Boheme with more emotion, and I guess that is what non-fans are responding to.


    Despite being pleased with Patrick's recent success, I still see a need to add a technical coach. I was never advocating replacing Kathy because I see the obvious improvements in Patrick's movement and expression. However, I noticed last year at SC Patrick would consult Kristy after a failed jump attempt during practice and observed the opposite from the COR practice videos. Patrick just skates around after a 3A fall and it's up to him to figure things out. I hope this not the long term strategy
     
  10. rvi5

    rvi5 Active Member

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    I recall an interview with Kurt Browning talking about Patrick, in which he mentions there are things about Patrick's skating which only a judge or another skater could appreciate. He went on to say, they should record a video of Patrick's skating and use it as a teaching aid.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  11. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    I was watching his EX and his encore skate on the last section of La Boheme, and I could feel the overwhelming sadness and tragedy in that music and his skating which I have no doubt when fully developed will be all the more powerful emotionally. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1fiOxTWqYs
    Didn't really like Til Kingdom Come when he first skated ... but it's getting smoother and smoother .. yeah as someone said.... like wine! It can only get better with time.
     
  12. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    re: Aranjuez

    From the Japan Open, I loved Aranjuez. Even with three falls, it was a mesmerizing program. The two performances he gave back to back at Nationals and 4CC were perhaps the highlight of the 2011/2012 season. The thing is, he'd been adding the choreographic details for a while - Exilados went from cool and precise to something more boldly assertive. But it really came to fruition here. The choreography after the triple loop. The whole sequence from the lutz to the double axel. And of course, those glorious footwork sequence - so fully choreographed, so alive to the emotion of the music and so in tune with the blade of Chan's skate that it's some of the best choreography I've ever seen. And that ending - after the passion - rest. It's not macho hipthrusting that so often defines masculinity, but a quieter, more introspective note. The opening and closing poses strike me as masculinity in repose.
     
  13. jl22aries

    jl22aries Active Member

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    That last step sequence, set to that particular tune from La Boheme, is special. Like, squeeze-my-heart-harkening-to-some-vague-moment-from-the-past-double-dipped-in-romance-and-nostalgia special.
     
  14. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    Le Boheme vs Aranjuez

    I like both. Le Boheme is growing on me. However, I find Aranjuez has more highlights, esp the last part of the footwork. As for Le Boheme, the last part of footwork was not as "mind blowing" as Aranjuez.
     
  15. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    Oh that footwork in Aranjuaz was magnificent, but this new one has a totally different feel to it, but I love it.
     
  16. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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  17. algonquin

    algonquin Well-Known Member

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  18. fscric

    fscric Active Member

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  19. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Wonderfully described, Proustable.

    Aranjuez was love at first sight for me and I felt I could defend Patrick winning with misakes without lying to myself because I found the intricacy and difficulty of the choreographic detail and the variety of movement in that program just amazing and unbelievable.

    And Exilados was such a wild, unusual and interesting program for me and I think in both cases Lori gave Patrick great vehicles for him to show off his strenghts and what makes him unique as a skater. But I know quite a few people said Exilados was not a tango and quite a few people complained they didn't get a flamenco feel from Aranjuez.

    To cut a long story short, Patrick this years strikes me as a more marketable product to the general audiences than in past years because he is delivering some theatrics in La boheme thanks to Wilson's choreography.;)


    I've never been one of those screaming "Free Patrick Chan from Kathy Johnson" because I noticed how much he improved his arm and body movement under her guidance but I too am in favor of Chan having a technical coach by his side. I suspect he'll get one if he feels he needs additional assistance in his training.

    Since you brought up the triple axel again, here is the situation of Patrick's 3As last year at Japan Open and his two GP events as opposed to this season:

    2011

    Japan Open - FS - fully rotated/fall.
    Skate Canada - SP - popped into a double; FS - clean.
    TEB - SP - clean; FS - popped into a double.

    2012

    Japan Open - FS - fully rotated/fall.
    Skate Canada - SP - fully rotated/hand down; FS - underrotated/fall.
    Rostelecom Cup - SP - clean; FS - popped into a double.

    Kurt says in his analysis - thanks to jl22aries for the link - that Patrick doesn't have a great skid on the takeoff of the 3A and he sounds to me like he's suggesting it's quite difficult to fix that.
     
  20. elle123

    elle123 New Member

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    I love this "gem" from the article:

    With all the strong competition in the Men's corner, snatching that Gold medal from Patrick Chan may be relatively effortless this year. But in the end, it will not be an easy win for the rest of the men competing.


    This makes no sense to me, but whatever - I won't give her opinions any weight. She definitely made some bold predictions two weeks into the beginning of the season.
     
  21. nlyoung

    nlyoung Active Member

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    Did anyone else notice that both Johnson and Shipstad were listed as coaches for Chan on the COR broadcast (the graphic under his name before he skated). Chan has been pretty clear that Shipstad is his "technical coach" and he has been working with him 3 times/week. I don't see the problem with having Johnson listed as the principle coach if Chan is getting the help he needs when he's training.
     
  22. algonquin

    algonquin Well-Known Member

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    Makes no sense to me either. As I posted earlier, it is very poorly written.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
  23. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    Pardon me while I :rolleyes: :eek: :lol: and then ... awwww, where the puking icon? Really? this article just makes the so-called writer look -- to paraphrase my kids -- stooooopid. There will be nothing easy in winning anything this season for anyone. No one is a given winner just because they show up. Others are upping their technical content and Chan is upping his emotional connection to the music. However, I think Chan still has the upper hand on the technical side if only because he's been landing the quad, alone and in combination, in competitions successfully more often than his competitors with about one exception and that would be Plushenko.

    What really makes me laugh -- suggesting that Weir and Lysacek will even be close to the young guns who now seem to winning the medals. Weir is now dealing with an injury and Lysacek may be landing quads in practice but he hasn't landed a clean one in competition in how long? The only one who is "coming back" and has a crack at keeping up with the technical content is Plushy, from what I can see. Joubert? I like the guy but I don't think he has the technical content in his programs or the PCS to keep up with the "kids".

    Who IS this writer? Ahhh, I went and followed the link from her name in this article. She writes for an American paper so I can see why she would include two U.S. guys in her list of who can knock off Chan. The article is dated the 13th but I'd lay odds she wrote it just after Skate Canada when Patrick didn't have one of his better skates. Sure would like to know what she thinks after his latest win. :lol:
     
  24. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    I figured there would be a reaction to that article......what an idiot!!! And yes, I wish there was a "puke" smiley
     
  25. sequins

    sequins New Member

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    Moron. I was hoping you could comment but I guess not. Not that she'd likely care. I like and respect(something this 'journalist' lacks) Evan and Johnny but I hardly thing they are striking fear into Patrick. If Chan is dethroned it certainly won't be easy lady.
     
  26. ali_dorate

    ali_dorate New Member

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    That's exactly what Kristy had once described as the problem of Patrick's 3A.
    Below is a quote from the article"Chan looks to get past accident in Ontario" dated 10/28/2010 on icenetwork.com.

    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101028&content_id=15878570&vkey=ice_news

    As I see it, Patrick has got that skidded technique in 2011/12 season.
    You can see the difference when you compare that gorgeous 3A, for instance, in 2009 and the solid, not gorgeous but decent enough, 3A in last season. And I said in a previous post I was not worried about his jumps because I saw the practice at JO and his 3A technique was there. I'm sure he has not lost his jumps.

    But what I'm worrying about is, after hearing the comment from Kurt and reread the above comment from Christy, that "bad" habits would creep in a stealthy way because the muscle memory is so strong.

    Oh no. I'm not gonna make a negative comment. I trust Patrick always realizes what he needs to do and if he would have some problems on his jumps in the future, then he'll consider how to fix it.
    For now I just wanna enjoy his beautiful performances at COR. Congrats Patrick!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
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  27. vigiliae

    vigiliae New Member

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    A bit late on the Russian-fest bandwagon but I just adore all the Patrick's performance in Russia. Especially the first half of La Boheme.
    My favorite part is the entrance of the first spin; swing rocker to double three to camel(not sure, I am a non-teknik), everything is so smooth and precise, perfectly fit to the the music. Love it!!
    Enjoyed the Ex practice vid Varbar posted. Thanks! :rofl: when Patrick reached his hands to Scott like a typical ice dance pose. Chan/Moir for the Pyeongchang 2018! (don't get me wrong, I love Tessa.)

    And the article is certainly a mess. I don't understand what she wanted to say and I hope it's not because of my subpar English skill. :p

    I also wasn't particulary worried with his 3A based on the popping in the FS. IMO the jump went totally wrong from the beginning (before the takeoff) and actually I was surprised that Patrick did managed to do a 2A. Of course his 3A is a weakness but based on the beautiful 3A in the SP and his improvements of 2A I think it was not worsen. (Let's not forget that his 3A consistency was always bad save 11/12 season.) Hope the issue can be solved, or at least not deteriorate in the near future.

    A sidenote. I was so glad to see his 3F-3T in the Ex Encore. I like 3F-1/2lo-3S as well but I sometimes miss his 3F-3T....
     
  28. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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  29. elle123

    elle123 New Member

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    Haha totally didn't see that - kind of insulting to Daisuke. I think it's clear that this is not a reputable online publication.
     
  30. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    I think 3A is still Chan's weakness. He seems to have a plan per year. He was focusing on technical elements after Vancouver. This year, he's focusing on artistry. So if both are mastered, it will be unbeatable in Sochi. However, that 3A is still a weakness. I want to see him spending next year to focus on master the 3A, and NERVE!!! I think nerve is still Chan's #1 enemy that he has to find a way to overcome it. He has done many competitions but still, he was so nervous at World, that's why he was unable to skate to his potential. He was nervous at this year's Skate Canada as well. Sochi is many times more important than World and GP, so you can add 10 tones of nervousness and pressure to it. And we all know, when you are nervous, or cautious, you can't skate well. And with the inconsistency of the 3A, it's a double dose. I just don't want to see him like Michelle Kwan.