Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by spikydurian, Sep 10, 2012.
If he does his marks will hit the roof and the naysayers will be squeaking as usual!
At least the "naysayers" can't say that he can still win with 4 falls
I still can't watch, but maybe in a few days.
The program is gorgeous. Thanks for translating that interview. It is good to hear that Patrick is optomistic about the season ahead. I am counting down the days until I get to see him skate it again, this time live, at Skate Canada. I am sure it will be a much improved performance.
Clarie, I managed to bring myself to watch it a few times.
I think the music was well put together. Other than the falls, he was flying from one end of the rink to the other. The step sequence in the second piece of music was gorgeous. Hopefully, he will perfect it at Worlds like he perfected Aranjuez at Canadian Nationals.
Thanks ali dorate for taking the time to translate the interview for us. I wanted to hear how he felt about his disastrous skate, and being the usual Patrick ie. honest and truthful about himself, he admitted he hit a bump on the road and is determined to get back and try again.
I love this program, huge improvement from last year IMO
I was so surprised watching La Boheme. Joy, Love and Sadness - All feelings in it.
I smiled happily during his circular step and I had tears during choreo step.
it is a very beautiful and difficult! program.
La Boheme looks like it'll be a masterpiece.
Oh my goodness~!!!! I was afraid to watch because of the 4 falls - BUT THAT PROGRAM!!! I love it so much! I also understand that there is a lot to it and all the changes and that would be why the jumps weren't there.
Patrick didn't look super determined though at the beginning so it is interesting him saying he didn't want it enough.
I do hope the changes work out for him and that the coaching situation is what he needs - not just what he wants. He has made such courageous decisions putting focus on his performance and using new choreographers / going in new directions.
Mostly selfishly I just want to see this year's programs skated to their potential!
I still haven't watched it yet (I know...I'm a big chicken). What upsets me more than anything is that certain people/posters on other threads and forum are so negative about him. I get the impression that they just want him to go away. There's so much mean spirit and delight in putting this guy down. I just don't understand and am very dismayed. I hope he gets it all together for Skate Canada and all the other competitions this season. It almost makes me want to see others have a "bad day at the office" like he did, and I really don't like feeling this way
It seems in others' eyes, this young man can't do anything right, and their sentiments are totally unfounded.........There, I've said it, and I feel better.
I'll probably watch the program this week sometime when I get up the gumption.
I'm dying to watch but will hold out until Skate Canada, I don't want my first impression of his new program be the one with the meltdown
I agree Claire that the hate towards him is so unfounded. What gets me the most is that so many of the negative opinions on Patrick are uneducated in the IJS yet when supports provide qualitative examples of why he is marked that way the haters call us defensive AND rebutted with more uneducated statements.
I totally understand you Clarie. I am also a chicken and still cannot watch last season's Worlds.
Throughout the last couple of seasons (and even before that) my friend who's also on FSU always warned me not to visit the entire forum whenever Patrick had a competition. And I thanked her after ignoring her warning for the first time. Being a Patrick fan sometimes make me feeling almost guilty. ...Well actually I feel guilty for not liking general favorites.
I am still not an uber of this new long program (I am a minority who liked Lori Nichol's works in general) but the first step sequence was much more fantastic in live, especially because of the ice coverage. IIRC he covered more than 2/3 of the ice with the CiSt(!) in almost rectangular form. He just flew over the ice with those lovely little hops, twizzles and small dance movements, while not losing any speed. The upper body moves can be a bit more extended and loosen but I think it's a matter of time, since I felt the same way when I saw Aranzuez for the first time.
One more thing I appreciated to David Wilson for the step seq. is that he actually made Patrick doing twizzles in both feet. His RF twizzle was a killer from the later half of the last season but he did not perform the LF twizzle that much. However it can be found in the sequence this time and it was lovely. His RF twizzle becoming better throughout the last season and I hope something like that for LF as well.
He also became much faster; totally different from what I've seen at shows in August. The transitions in this program were not jam-packed in my untrained eyes and it surely helped him drawing more speed. Not saying he's doing more crossovers though, he maintains edges longer and deeper and it seemed as hard as Lori's intricate works. His skating skill itself was also improved(!). I have no idea how he is able to keep improving in the skating skill area which he's already on the top of the world. And while I am OK with the other lower PCS he've got this time, I personally cannot agree that he should get that much lower SS than Takahashi and Plushenko. (If I write things like this in the other threads I will be burned so I'm only saying in here...)
In a case of meltdown, I was so frustrated at first but then remembered Patrick always had a kind of meltdown at his summer competitions in the previous seasons. (Almost all the Liberty comps and last year's Golden west) Of course this time it's a bit later but I'll wait at least utill COR before becoming serious. I am a bit worried of his quads though, the landing was not in his best.
Having said that, I know this is quite off the topic, but Patrick always showed something extreme whenever I saw him live in competitions. I only attended his competition 4 times and saving the 2010 nationals he always on the one end in performance-wise. First one was the disasterous 2008 GPF, then 2010 Canadians, then the glorious 2011 Canadians and now this.
If there is a rule that skategod assigned for this pathetic fan, I should be at Sochi 2014 to see(and hope) the rule actually happening.
So, what was his working with Mr. Dean? Dying to know!
I was really bored with the program, much to my chagrin. Nice movements in it but there is almost nothing memorable about it. Fortunately, Patrick can just stroke around the rink and I'm captivated.
For Clarie and anyone else who feels this way, I have stopped full stop going into those threads because it was having a disproportionately negative affect on me. Funny, how the opinions of strangers upon a stranger can hurt ones feelings. But what really crossed the line for me was when I realized that those threads and posters were actually taking away my enjoyment and love for the sport. That's just not cool, and so ridiculous. We're all fans, right? We're all here to enjoy the sport. So I'm going to keep my love for it by sticking with you guys.
And yes, I'm also too chicken to watch the FD. It's all good though. Patrick is amazing.
I too like Nichol's work but I usually appreciate it with my mind rather than my heart and I feel that La Boheme is a more musical program from the beginning to the end than most of the programs Lori choreographed for Patrick. Wilson puts sentiment into his choreographies and this is somehow transferred to the skater's performance as well. My perception could be all wrong but I do think Chan skates La Boheme with more freedom and enjoyment than he did Aranjuez where I often found him tense and not letting himself go 100% even on his good days.
I have to wonder if Chan will ever get to nail both quadruples in this new program because unlike some other skaters he's got a lot of transition skating into them - steps, turns, arm movement - and there's little time left for him to prepare those jumps.
Btw, does anyone know what spot in La Boheme Patrick was planning to do his second jump combination in?
His planned jump layout at JO included 4T3T, 3Lz2T and 3F1lo3S iirc.both triples were in the second half. However I saw him doing a transiton move right after the 3F in the warm-up so I asuume the triple jump combination layout is actually flexible.
Well articulated, jl22aries . Let us not allow these people take our pleasure away from watching figure skating. I am sticking with you guys too!
Yes, Clarie. I find this type of obsessive compulsive hatred incomprehensible. I would like to think that God (if you believe in one) gave us bigger brains and hearts for a reason. If these people think they are doing the sport a favour, they are dead wrong. When I see people smashing public properties when their teams lose, I (sadly) associate the sport with fanatical behaviours. Having said this, thank goodness I still love watching figure skating and the skaters whose incredible skills continue to awe and give us much joy. On the contrary Claire, the more the haterzs attack Patrick, the more determined I am to love him and his skating because reason and heart dictate that I should protect those who are being crucified. Go Patrick go.
Vigiliae, thank you for sharing your opinions on Patrick’s program and skating. His JO skate is reminiscent of his skate when he was a junior which I have watched on you-tube. He would skate as was practised despite falling again and again. When I first watched these vids, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-0QSGLcl_c I thought … “gee .. this kid is a tough cookie”.
Thanks so much guys. I feel better knowing I'm not the only one who feels this way. My big hope is that Patrick pulls himself together for the rest of the season. This is turning out to be the "Patrick Chan Support Thread"....lol
More like "Patrick's Fans' Support Thread"!
I've stopped going into most competition threads for exactly this reason. In the past two or three seasons it seems that the threads have become so negative (not just towards Patrick, but toward many skaters) that my reaction after reading them was, "Do I even want to bother watching this competition when it is broadcast? It sounds pretty bad" - when, in actual fact, the competition was very interesting and entertaining when I watched it. After a few occurrences like this, I decided the information from the play-by-play threads did not counterbalance the overall negative attitude they engendered.
It's unfortunate, since I'm sure I miss quite a bit of useful information and some witty comments, but I think I enjoy the competitions much more withouth the help of the competition threads (and 'those' threads are one step lower than the play-by-play threads).
The planned elements of each skaters were open to the public in a website.
(Sorry, all written in Japanese.)
According to this, Patrick's elements were:
As vigiliae said, he did 3F after 3F-1Lo-2S during the warm-up. I remember the lady sit next to me said, when seeing this jump, "Oh, he jumps high!"
Watching his skate on the big screen in my house, I enjoyed his performance as well as beautiful music very much.
(Actually I didn't enjoyed much at JO, I just crossed fingers throughout his performance.)
Now I notice how he paid so much attention to every detail of the choreography. No wonder he missed the rhythm of jumps.
And that second 3Lz! Do you remember the entrance of 3Lz at his SP "Tango de los Exilados"? That was one of my favorite entrance into 3Lz and it's back!
Of course it's very difficult and risky because if he fall like this time, he lose many points because it is the second 3Lz and it has to be a combination. But how gorgeous it would be if he succeeds it!
Anyway I'm not worrying about his jumps. He did great 4T-3T and good 3A during the practice as I said before. He has not lost his beautiful jumps. And I'm sure this beautiful program will develop in due time.
Thank you Ali dorate. That eases my mind somewhat. The way people have been going on in other forums/threads, it seems as though he had "lost" all his jumps. I'm cautiously optimistic that the jumps will re-appear when he has more mileage on this program.....maybe by Skate Canada only 3 falls, by the next only 2, and so on . By the time Worlds comes around, he can skate clean
JO 4 falls
SC 3 falls
COR 2 falls
GPF (maybe) 1 fall
Candian - 1 wobbly landing
Worlds - perfection!
Oh Clarie I like your prediction .. <3 for you all the way from Down Under.
Ali dorate, thanks for your opinions/post. They are reassuring to our eyes and hearts.
Thank you vigiliae and ali_dorate. Seems like Patrick changed the order of his jumps a bit against last year when his first three jump passes were 4T/3T, 4T (or 4T, 4T/3T), and 3A if memory serves, whereas now it's a 3Lz in the place of the 3A.
How could I possibly forget Tango de los Exilados...it's that program that made me fall in love with Chan's skating when I wached him at 2009 Canadians. But do you think there would be enough room between the landing spot for that 3Lz and the rink boards for Patrick to throw a second jump after it even if it's a jump with just two revolutions in the air?
clarie, haters in general are really not worth spending time on. Have you finally watched his La Boheme? I promise Chan's multiple mistakes don't ruin the choreography much or the mood of the program for that matter.
I finally watched..........very painful!!!! But, it's going to be a beautiful program when he gets it together with the jumps.
I finally watched today, also. When he wasn't falling, he was fabulous.
I too felt his pain Clarie. Did you notice how he flew into a fall a couple of times. Ouch! Poor Boy.
As an afterthought, I thought I might add that I would rather see a skater show some gumption and attempt the difficult jump, rotate, and fall, rather than "pop" it. I've always been frustrated watching some of my favs do that. Patrick shows a lot of courage to at least attempt the jumps even when he is having an off day or is not quite comfortable. I think that is what makes for his successes later on in the season..........any thoughts on that?
CBC article: Patrick Chan admits being ‘intimidated’ at Japan Open
Oh Chiddy. Life’s journey is often long and full of bumps. Every now and then, we fall, get up, reassess our priorities and needs, and move on in our journey and next goal. I am happy to hear that you took time to reassess your priorities and needs and determine what really needs to be done. Go Chiddy go. The most important thing in falling is the ability to get up and move on. You have shown that you can do it in your skating.
Here's hoping he never feels "intimidated" again . There's not reason he should be, and I hope he's as good as his word and picks himself up to finish the season with success.
Thanks so much, spikydurian!
It seems that Patrick needs this kind of bumps once in a while. He bumped in Vancouver. He got up and better than ever. Hope he could get up soon enough for this season.
I am a bit confused...Patrick mentions his "programs" at JO but in fact he only skated the long, correct? I am not missing a video of the short, am I? Because I can't wait to see the short!
No, you aren't. Patrick only skated La Boheme in competition and his exhibition number was Til Kingdom Come.
It is so very difficult being at the top. The seasons are long. The time until Sochi is either soon or far, depending on one's perspective.
The JO experience was likely invaluable. No better time to have a skate like that than before the meat of the season begins.
I agree leapfrogonice. In terms of training, it's two seasons away and still anything can happen between now and then. I am glad that Patrick is able to look at all these experiences introspectively, for it is only from within that change and understanding can arise. I like the fact that he took on new challenges to test himself. Just train well and do your best. Go Patrick go!
I remember Christy Krall said of Patrick after she resigned that he went to 4 really tough months leading into the Worlds in Nice, that he felt frustrated and unmotivated during that time - pretty much the same as Chan said himself. Now I hear from Patrick that he was still missing motivation before Japan Open and it's a bit puzzling to me because he's got two new programs he says he loves and he seems pretty happy with his coaching situation.
I just hope Patrick will realize that he needs a technical coach by his side and more scientific training, I would have said that even if he had won JO with a perfectly clean skate. I understood from him that he plans on including a quadruple flip in his long program by Nationals, can Kathy Johnson teach him how to fully rotate that jump?
spikydurian, thank you for the link.
I think she can teach him how to rotate four revolutions in the air, but she can't teach him how to land it on his blade on ice.
It makes me think of Jeff Buttle retiring before the 2008/9 Season even though they were 1 year from the Olympics in Canada. He said he didn't have the drive to train anymore. I hope that this is just a slump for Patrick and not him losing his drive halfway to the next Olympics.
Looks like Patrick has some company in the "fall" department, but I don't see anyone complaining about it .....hmmmm. Now if it had been Patrick with 3 falls and coming 2nd, there would have been another uproar. Methinks there's a double standard here with many.
Yup so many excuses:
Poor Hanyu he is young
Poor Hanyu he had a bad day
Poor hanyu he has asthma
Poor Hanyu its Brian Orser's fault etc etc etc
I adored Hanyu's Sd at SA. He filled the ice completely. But I think the weight of expectations got him. There is something to be said for maturity as a skater and he has to mature and learn to control the flutters.
The strange part was the reaction to Hanyu's great SD from Dai supporters. Some seemed really paranoid that he would win over their adored Dai.
I think Hanyu will be Patrick's main competition at Sochi and the man who puts two good programs down will win.
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