Patrick Uber Thread - road to Sochi

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by spikydurian, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's true, no one beats Lori when it comes to creating high-scoring footwork for skaters. However, I think consistency on the jumps should be Patrick's focus for 2013-2014 because it's the repeated mistakes on the jumps that got him into trouble this past season. One might argue that even less than one point (+2.00 GOE to +1.40 GOE on a ChSq) can make the difference between victory and defeat and I agree but whenever Chan wins a title by just one or two points, you can be sure he skated quite poorly for what he would actually be capable of and that he left a lot of points on the table by messing up his jumps. I think I can agree with Patrick that consistency and repetition are the key words for next season.

    I would first need to know what Chan's favorite pieces are but other than Coldplay, I am completely in the dark.:confused:

    That's usually my problem with Tom Dickson's choreographies. I too hope Patrick's new program will have a theme that I can easily recognize.
  2. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    Phil Hersh doesn't appear to understand much about figure skating, yet he is unflinching in his opinion that Chan's wins are ridiculous. That he makes these claims without actually making solid reference to the rules under which Patrick has been evaluated makes it hard to take anything he says seriously. Journalists like him are bad for the sport, imo. I agree, it is fine for him express an opinion about a result but to express it in the manner in which he did...it seems he purposely wanted to hurt Patrick which is just sad.

    ali_dorate, what a lovely post! Like spiky said, Patrick is lucky to have a fan like you. What an incredible moment that must have been for you! I am so happy that you got to experience this, and I appreciate you sharing it with all of us:)

    Also, great points, VarBar! Do you think he should go back to training at altitude? For both his physical conditioning and his confidence?
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  3. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    Hersh is tool masquerading as a sports writer. He needs to preface his "articles" with -- this is just my uniformed opinion because I hate COP and refuse to learn how it is used. Bring back 6.0 because I can only understand simple numbers between 0 and 6.
  4. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Training at altitude undoubtedly has its benefits but it seems that Colorado Springs is behind Patrick now and I don't think he would ever go back to his former training base other than for a few short stays.

    Not sure we are going to see Chan attempting this challenging three-jump combo in competition because it would most likely not be worth the effort and the risk taken under the IJS but it's interesting though that he went for it while practicing for a show. Maybe he wanted to send the world a message?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBra3ElV9uE

    Prefacing Canadian Stars on Ice.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BH3067hCQAA5bPW.jpg:large
  5. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    Getting excited now for SOI Kingston........wheee!!!! Hope we get a chance to "high-5" as we are rinkside.
  6. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    I think so too. If he can practise till skating the program without thinking, then he is less likely to make mistakes.

    Training at altitude undoubtedly has its benefits but it seems that Colorado Springs is behind Patrick now and I don't think he would ever go back to his former training base other than for a few short stays.

    A decision has been made and it's time to move on and focus. I am sure Team Chan has considered all its pros and cons before moving to Detroit. Interesting that he went for it during the SOI practice too. Maybe it was just 'fun'. How many points can one gain if you do a three jump instead of two jump combo,VarBar? Why is it not worth trying it in a competition? (I need some COP education).

    clarie, I hope you get to meet other FSU-ers at the show too. Have fun cheering the skaters on. Please post your report and pictures here if any.

    ProfDeb, now that it is confirmed that Patrick, Weaver, Poje and Balde +++ are training in Detroit, you can drop by to cheer them all.:)
  7. fscric

    fscric Active Member

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    Hope to read some reports about the show tonight.
  8. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    I see what you mean. And thx for the link!

    I am sooooo excited for you, clarie! I cannot imagine being that close! PM me if you would like to meet up. I will be attending the Kingston show with my mother.
  9. blueglass

    blueglass New Member

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    Looking at Patrick's training decisions, it seems he needs to keep refreshing things to stay motivated so I hope Detroit does that for him. I often wonder though why he doesn't just stay home and train in Canada - one thing Canada has in abundance are high performance coaches for senior men. It would certainly save his family some money which was a factor a few years ago - and just perhaps the real reason that Patrick went with one coach and to Buttle for choreography. But that's JMO.
  10. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    Have you met with clarie before Bournekraatzfan? If not, I hope you two get to meet up.

    I remember reading somewhere ... that he ended up in Colorado Springs to train with Krall for his quads. It seemed that the atmosphere then was conducive too as he had his skater friends and the high altitude was a plus. Oh yes, I read that Toronto has too much distractions. :) I GUESS now that he is no longer with Krall and I understand most of the skater friends he trained with have retired or moved, there's less motivation to stay on. OK.. I am just guessing and saying based on what I have read. Guys, correct me if I am wrong.
  11. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    BKfan....I just sent you a PM :)
  12. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know, the base value of a jump combination is the sum total of the base values of the jumps that combination contains, in other words whether a skater attempts a 4T/3T/3Loop or a 4T/3T and a 3Loop as a solo jump later in the program, the total base value of these three jumps is exactly the same, that is 19.5 points: 4T base value = 10.3; 3T base value = 4.1; 3Loop base value = 5.1. But the likelihood for a skater to land the third jump in a three jump cleanly and get good GOEs isn't as high as the likelihood for him to land the second jump in a two jump cleanly. Furthermore, a three jump like the one Patrick did would reduce the number of triple jumps the skater could do in the second half of the program for the 10% bonus. Maybe the skater would be better rewarded on skating skills and performance/execution if he attempted a three jump instead of a two jump but Patrick is not one of those skaters who should be concerned about their PC scores - unless he makes serious mistakes.
  13. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    ^^^ Thank you VarBar. Makes sense. Now would a 4quad salchow makes any difference? Not sure why he has been practising 4QS but not bringing it to competition. Perhaps, it's just not consistent yet?
  14. Judge Dred

    Judge Dred New Member

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  15. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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  16. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    The benefit of a 4S is that it's a high value element that frees up a jump slot. If he has a regular one that he can add to his to 4Ts already, he should do it without hesitation. At minimum, it's a two point jump over a 3A (if he were to replace his 3A with a 4S), 4 points over a triple lutz, and an insane 7 points above a backloaded 2A.

    I don't think he has it, though. I think he'd more likely get a 4F than a 4S to be honest.
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  17. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    Is there anyone in Patrick's life - ANYONE - who can give him some advice about being more careful what he says to the media - especially vultures like Rosie Dimanno who have no class?
  18. artsciboy

    artsciboy New Member

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    As much as I dislike Dimanno's "journalism", Patrick isn't a kid - he's been in the spotlight long enough to know how he should behave from a PR standpoint. The fact that he constantly says things that paint him in such a poor light after all these years - just makes him seem cocky, arrogant and as if he's above it all. I love Patrick's skating, but the more I read these things from him, the more I find it difficult to appreciate what he can produce on the ice. Honestly, he needs to be put down a few pegs. Look at Tom Cruise - he might still pull in ok numbers at the BO occasionally, but since the Oprah couch jumping debacle and the more details about his Scientology involvement emerge, the more lustre he has lost (and the more people can't buy him as anybody but Tom Cruise...).
  19. blueglass

    blueglass New Member

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    I don't think Patrick has said anything so terrible - if you actually listen to him give an interview as opposed to what the print media writes, he is the polar opposite of cocky and arrogant. He is a very likeable, humble guy who is also very conscious of his abilities and talent - and when did that become such a crime in a high performance athlete? He's criticised and vilified for winning events when he falls. But why should he have to sit back and take it when everybody and their dog is trashing him? The judging system is not his fault, but the vitriol keeps coming. He's allowed to stand up for himself.
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  20. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    I also wonder if the journalists know Patrick would give these kind of sound bites so they constantly go after him for quotes. I'm doubtful that one day Patrick just woke up and said let's go call Rosie DiManno about the idea of Skater's Union.
  21. geoskate

    geoskate Well-Known Member

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    Artsciboy certainly has a creative understanding of what constitutes an uber (since this is, after all, an 'uber' thread).

    I don't think it's ever wise for a skater to talk to Rosie Dimanno, given her track record in reporting. On the other hand, I actually agree with everything that Patrick Chan was quoted as saying in her article i.e. I think the World Team Trophy IS a useless competition, that it IS created only to generate money for the ISU, that the ISU did in fact create it without any concern for the welfare of the skaters involved (ridiculous timing) and therefore it IS in fact exploitation of the skaters involved.

    I'm glad that someone prominent enough to be quoted finally had the courage to say what many other skaters probably already think, but can't say. Virtue/Moir, Davis/White, Pechelat/Bourzat or Bobrova/Soloviev, for example, can't risk that in their highly politicized discipline. Patrick has enough of a reputation that he can say what he thinks about it, although I'm sure he will suffer somewhat in the short term for his comments.

    I suppose that if he actually wanted his comments to get some publicity, Rosie Dimanno is the perfect vehicle for it. If that's the case, it may not actually be poor judgement about a reporter, but rather great judgement about how to use a sub-standard but prominent reporter as a vehicle to promote his views.

    If true, I suppose that would be exploitation of Rosie Dimanno.
  22. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    You're so sweet, spiky:) clarie has long been one of my favourite posters (since back in the day then there was a B&K thread), and we live in the same city but have yet to meet. I only started posting regularly (and thus getting to know fellow members better) last season and i am so glad that we will finally have a chance to meet:)

    Re: Patrick's comments. I agree with both artsciboy and blueglass. He is still young, but he definitely has to learn to be more responsible about what he says (he especially has to watch using words like 'everyone' as i really do not believe he thinks that he speaks or everyone). Some skaters seem to genuinely like WTT and created wonderful moments there and a lot of fans (myself included) enjoy the event as well, and I think he should be careful that his words don't detract from that. Having said that, i can't stand DiManno, and i find the article hilarious because it is such a trainwreck, especially considering that Patrick is a target for so many. I agree that the level of vitriol directed at him is unjustified, and I also agree that he hasn't said anything too terrible. I can understand him not being crazy about having to do this event, given its timing and all. I just think he has to choose his words more carefully.
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  23. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    If any other skater had made those comments, I'm sure it would be a different story. I've even read complaints and concerns over this comp by members of this board, not to mention the lesser statements made by virtue (not Virtue ;)) of not attending if they weren't forced. But because it's Patrick being honest, he gets hanged, drawn, and quartered by haterz.............hmmm, double standard ya think?
  24. geoskate

    geoskate Well-Known Member

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    I'm not so sure about that. I think it is the consequence of being very successful at anything. That success ensures that your words have a prominence that they would not otherwise have. He has been, after all the world champion for three years running, so he gets more attention than almost any other skater right now.

    Plushenko or Yagudin certainly were hanged, drawn and quartered at equivalent times in their careers based on what they said. Kurt Browning attracted the same kind of attention, although he was protected somewhat because the social media didn't exist to the same extent when he was at his peak. Even Maxim Trankov has started to be analysed to death in the past two years, since V/T have become successful.

    The only very successful skaters who haven't had this happen to them are those who say almost nothing, or only speak in a very controlled environment, such as Savchenko/Szolkowy or Yu-Na Kim.
  25. fscric

    fscric Active Member

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    I would hope another article of the same contents written by other more respectable journalists would surface so that I could have a better idea of what were really said by Patrick. Given the track record of this person on writing about Patrick, I wouldn't be surprised if she had purposely twisted and exaggerated his words to attract the haterz. But ... is it too much to hope that Patrick only speaks to visual media?!
  26. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    I think that is the journalist is the master of "twisted and exaggerated"
  27. algonquin

    algonquin Well-Known Member

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    No doubt, but Patrick needs to be more guarded with the media or he will suffer the same fact as Lloyd Eisler. (People dislike him so they disliked his skating.)
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  28. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with you and Bournekraazfan that Patrick should be more careful with his choice of words but I've noticed that the harshest and most persistent Chan dissing usually comes from people whose favorite skaters are anything but saints and whenever their favorites put their feet in their mouths, they would either defend them even beyond reason or pretend that the criticizable comments never existed. So I am with clarie about the double standard, I'm guessing that what we see is just the hypocritical side of human nature in its full splendor.;)

    I didn't know people dislike Llyod Eisler. Funny because I always enjoyed Eisler in Stars on Ice, am I too supposed to dislike his skating now?:rolleyes:

    I am not quite familiar with DiManno, I've ran into just a few of her articles and they were all about Chan :lol: and all sounding like random chats over lunch or dinner. Has she ever reported on yet other skaters? Some might want to say that DiManno is a good journalist because she knows how to sell a story. Just imagine she would have approached Duhamel/Radford for an interview, who would have shared their positive WTT experience with her, how many people do you think would have read her D/R material? I bet it would have passed almost unnoticed.
  29. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    DiManno prefers to stir it up whenever she can. I have come to the conclusion that if she has written something, I don't want to read it. She know how to take things out of context and does it well. She is Canada's answer to Phil Hersh. Any chance we can send the two of them somewhere cold? Say like the South Pole?
  30. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    Poor Patrick. Every word spoken is twisted to appear evil and arrogant by his haterz. Don't worry, someday when I turn professional haterz, I can do the same to the haterz's favourite skaters. ;)

    Double standards, blueglass. When Patrick stands up for himself, haterzz think he is arrogant and should take the crap thrown at him quietly instead.

    I can't imagine what will happen if you put the two of them together. :scream: I am sure with journalists like these two, we miss the late Randy Starkman. What a far cry ....
  31. sequins

    sequins New Member

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    DiManno strikes again! Don't talk to her! Frankly I don't see the big deal with what Patrick says(and I guarantee it's been 'altered'. Right Rosie;)). I'd bet the farm he's not alone in his feelings. Again Patrick doesn't choose his words carefully enough, he's not very articulate and he probably needs to shut it for his own good but frankly at this point I don't see it happening but you know what I don't really care. I still like him and I love his skating. So sue me:p
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  32. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    I am with you sequins. Actually, I have grown fonder of him after all the rubbish being thrown at him.:D Or he just reminds me of my own politically incorrect son with the most politically correct wife. :lol: OK, Tess you betcha teach dear Patrick how to use the right words like fat=voluptuous, skinny=slender, ugly looking=so-so looking, stupid=mildly slow etc. etc. :p
  33. Scrufflet

    Scrufflet Active Member

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    Totally agree with sequins and spikey! I'm so tired of all this negativity that I rarely bother to read it or respond. I am kind of puzzled that ANY skater would open their mouth around Hersh or DiManno, but oh well... One thing I do find exciting and exhilarating are the recent interviews that have been popping up, all having some content: particularly Jenny and Dave's TSL podcasts! Also Dave Gordon's, I think n-halifax(?) They're positive and interesting.
    Anyway, Go Patrick at SOI!
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  34. Corianna

    Corianna Active Member

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    Me too. i've given up reading the negative posts entirely, limiting my use FSU to this forum and TV alerts, and hard news. Always nice to meet the ladies here though. I'm going to SOI Toronto, but with a friend who is only a very casual fan, so we are not seated on the ice, and it will be therefore difficult to say hi to you all.
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  35. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    I hope you all have a wonderful time at CSOI Toronto! I am sure you will:)

    I feel so lucky to have met clarie. She is absolutely lovely and we had a lot of fun chatting.

    Okay, I have to tell you that Patrick was awesome tonight! He performed "I Need a Dollar" and "Mannish Boy" and was on in both numbers. In his first number, he managed to catch the hat and manoeuver it with ease. I wasn't crazy about this exhibition the first time I saw it but I thoroughly enjoyed it tonight. He has tightened up many of the moves so he looks so much cooler now when he performs this choreography. What I love most about his skating is his edge quality. He really can do anything with those blades, and that facility translates into a wonderful playfulness in this number. The crowd ate it up and he received some of the loudest ovations of the night (for both his numbers). And he got a "yeah, Patrick" from an excited fan in the audience:)

    And "Mannish Boy" has continued to develop. He has really opened up his body and learned to work it out there. He got several hoots and hollers as you would imagine--he was totally hot out there. It didn't hurt that his outfit nicely highlighted his gorgeous physique. And I think the audience really appreciated how he sunk into the movements and made a real effort to connect with them. When he took his bows, he even flexed his muscles playfully at one point--it was really cute! A woman in my section yelled "We love you Patrick" as the lights went out after his performance.

    He was terrific in the group numbers and seemed to really enjoy the interaction with the other skaters. In the "Marchin' On" cast number, performed in a military style with red and black outfits that reflected this theme, some of the guys placed their umbrellas across the girls' backs and danced with them, and Patrick did this really well with Meagan. It was a lot of fun.

    I also have to mention that in the "Come Together" cast number, some fans wanted to get Patrick's attention and he actually took the time to acknowledge them and shake their hands. He did this with quite a few people, which was so nice to see. And again, as he was leaving the ice after the final bows, others were calling out to him so he lingered for a few moments. He shook hands with them, chatted a bit with them and waved to them when he finally left the ice. It was very, very sweet.

    The show was really well choreographed an performed. The skaters all did an incredible job and I urge anyone who is considering attending to do so. Also, if you have not yet bought your ticket and you are a CAA member, go to the SOI website and look under the heading 'tickets' at the top. The last option is for CAA members. They will prompt you to enter your CAA number and will then give you a code which you will enter in the coupon/promo code area on the ticket page. You will get a 25% discount, so it is definitely worth it. With the discount you can get tickets for less than $30 (this is the least expensive ticket). I attended the Kingston show, and I was happy with the seat I got at this price, so do keep this in mind if yo are attending a show at a smaller arena. There might not be much of a difference between the seats offered at this price and the ones offered at the next price level.
  36. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    ^^ Thanks Bkfan for the report. So glad that you met up with clarie. Sounds like you all had a good time getting to know each other which I am not at all surprised. :)

    Love the detailed report on Patrick's skate and happy to hear both skaters and audience all had a good time. I love the group picture and found the costumes intriguing and interesting. Something different. Can't wait to watch the vids. Kudos to Buttle as I understand he's one of the choreographer. Bkfan, I think Patrick should request your services as his media person so that he won't be misquoted by Miss Rosie or Mr Phil. :D
  37. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    As anticipated Bournekratzfan's report is intricate and accurate and so detailed that there isn't much to add, except that Patrick looked very comfortable in the group numbers and I could really see where his dancing and movement have certainly improved especially with his hands, shoulders, and arms. He was "bringin' it". I never used to think he was sexy, but I have now refined my opinion....he is a very sexy young man and his smile lights up the arena. I sure as h*ll don't get the haterz.

    Meeting up with BKfanand her mother was a real treat. She is so knowledgable and can do the number crunching and detailed descriptions which I can't do. We had a wonderful discussion over coffee after the show and found out we only live a few blocks from one another, so I'm hoping we get a chance to meet up again in the future if anything like this comes to Kingston again.:).

    If anyone gets the chance I "ditto" BKfan's suggestion that you go see it. The group numbers alone are worth it. I don't know how the current competitors had the time to fit in so smoothly as it was very well rehearsed and spot on and very sychro-ish. The costumes were impressive.
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  38. fscric

    fscric Active Member

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    Bournekraatzfan and clarie, thank you so much for the report. I really hope there will be videos available on YT soon.
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  39. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    I would definitely go to see the show if I lived in Canada or a close-by area, I am a big fan of the SOI cast numbers and group numbers, I thought most of the ones I saw in the past were terrific and there's a few of them I go back to and rewatch from time to time.

    Thanks for your lovely reports, Bkf and clarie.

    Patrick is the cutest kid and Kurt is the cutest dad to those kids.:cool:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIlP2BjCUAIVL1I.jpg:large
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  40. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    I suppose there are some things you cannot judge from afar. Patrick is probably someone whom you need to watch on ice and get to know to appreciate him. Definitely not for print for printed words can be easily misinterpreted.

    Now clarie, I envy you. You have not only found a skating buddy in BkF and MumBkF but near neighbour too.

    If anyone gets the chance I "ditto" BKfan's suggestion that you go see it. The group numbers alone are worth it. I don't know how the current competitors had the time to fit in so smoothly as it was very well rehearsed and spot on and very sychro-ish. The costumes were impressive.[/QUOTE]

    Poor Kurt. He'll probably feel old.:lol: Let's call him big brother to those kids instead. :D It's amazing that he can still skate so well at his age, and he certainly doesn't look 46 (ok..except his hair). :p

    Emdee and Corianna's attending tomorrow night. Hey Emdee and Corianna, do post your thoughts. Emdee, I hope your DD take some nice pictures.