Patrick Uber Thread - road to Sochi

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by spikydurian, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Thank you but I'm afraid I can't see that picture, all I get from that site is "Sorry, this page doesn't exist."

    But here is a couple more.

    Part of Team Canada with adopted son Fernandez at the Sochi beach.

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/299910_10151399323077039_282626123_n.jpg

    Patrick seems to be on quite a steep learning curve with the Russian folk dances.:lol:

    http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/65194_518142704877342_459792466_n.jpg
     
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  2. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Patrick is having so much fun dancing with the lovely Russian ladies!

    PJ's article on the GPF: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskat...atrick-chan-in-tough-at-grand-prix-final.html
     
  3. elle123

    elle123 New Member

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    Protocols are up for the SP:

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1213/gpf1213_Men_SP_Scores.pdf

    The stream didn't show the Mens SP but based on the protocols, Patrick did well on his 4T and 3A but seemed like he had trouble on the 3lz that somehow became a 2lz. Weird, considering that it's such a solid jump for him. All in all, he's in a good position going into the LP :)
     
  4. PCFan

    PCFan New Member

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    ^^ITA, Patrick's in a great position for the final tomorrow. Skating 2nd to last, takes some of the pressure off him, allowing him to skate his best.
     
  5. elle123

    elle123 New Member

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  6. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, elle123.
    Isn't it frustrating that Chan landed a clean quad and an amazing 3A but doubled down one of his most reliable triples and stepped out of the triple toe?:confused: I felt though that his movement over the ice was more fluid in linking the various parts of the choreography together and found his footwork section quite improved. And he was flying out there. Not to mention that he didn't fall.:D
    Here is hoping that Patrick will carry his SP 3A over to the free skate and that he travelled to Sochi with his Cup of Russia LP quads in his gym bag for a new La Boheme performance.:kickass:
     
  7. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    The top four men's marks are close and it will be a close fight. Yeah, Patrick not falling but doing a few weird things instead. :lol: That's our PChiddy (sorry Canadians for calling him 'our' cos' I have decided to forcefully adopt him). His movements are so so fluid and fast .. it's magical (as Kurt says). Loving La Boheme more and more as the program develops.
     
  8. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind sharing any of our skaters with someone who is a fan. Adopt away. BTW, I see you location is "Oz" but where in reality do you call home? :D
     
  9. ali_dorate

    ali_dorate New Member

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    Patrick made a gesture of "So close" at the K&C. :)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HWaN7jMZ4o

    I enjoyed the comment from Nicky and Chris. I' m glad they love this SP and I totally agree with them. It's just getting better and better.:respec:

    I heard the arena was so warm and the ice there was bit soft and it melted here and there. So not only him but everybody had to struggle with this relatively bad condition of the rink.
    I can see he raises a spray of water when he was skating around the corner of the rink.
    It's really amazing Patrick controlled it very well.

    ETA: BTW, that short hair didn't bother me much. I love him anyway.:lol:
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  10. jl22aries

    jl22aries Active Member

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    That step sequence AMAZED me this particular skate. Like, holy wow. I love that him and Jeff made the decision to begin the step sequence during a quieter moment of the piece, and that he continues to move through the moments of near complete silence. I also love all those pauses, those sudden syncopated movements that go with the lulls of the music. I adore Patrick and his team so much for going this direction...of pushing his scope of movement and artistry. Wahoooo.
     
  11. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    This short program is absolutely breathtaking! I love that 2 of Jeff Buttle's programs are in the Grand Prix final and that the short he choreographed for Hanyu has the world record - 1st and 2nd place!


    What? No comments after the GPF freeskate?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
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  12. ali_dorate

    ali_dorate New Member

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    Patrick must be quite disappointed. It's tough time for him.
    Technically he's been struggled on his 4T landings throughout this event. But programs are getting better and he definitely connects to the music more than ever before.

    I just wanna tell Patrick that those two programs are beautiful and touching.

    I hope we'll see his smile at the Gala and he'll find some nice places to take a breather at Sochi.
     
  13. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    Well- as the CBC commentators have been saying this season - it is more that others are closing the gap than Patrick's difficulties. In the past he had enough wiggle room for mistakes with the points he would gain. But 3 of the men's freeskates today are in the top 10 freeskate scores! So the wiggle room has now been swallowed up and a Chan with mistakes is no longer safe.
    There are a bunch of things I like about that.
    1/The heat is off Chan in that if he makes mistakes he will often be beaten - so the Chan bashing can settle down.
    2/ It shows he was right not to rest on his laurels - and as much as it has caused growing pains - focusing on his artistry is really important.
    3/ I think a Patrick Chan who went unchallenged between now and the Olympics would be a bored Patrick Chan. Boredom doesn't lead to much growing or enthusiasm. Therefore - the challenge will push him.

    All good things IMO

    The one thing I am worried about though is whether His current coaching situation is at the root of some of the mistakes he has been making. I get the feeling his previous coaches were really thorough with him and had found ways to make sure he didn't do things like the Zayak rule breaking etc. Maybe it is just him with a bit too much on his mind at the moment - but maybe it is Kathy Johnson's lack of experience of being completely in chage of an elite skater.
     
  14. fscric

    fscric Active Member

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    Good post and the bold part is what worry me the most. Twice now in this season that Patrick has committed this kind of error which should have been avoided if his coaches had set out all possible scenarios with him if things went wrong, it seems this hasn't been done for this season. I'm more than happy with his artistic growth but if he kept making this type of errors, he'll be off the podium soon enough because the TES Fernandez and Hanyu are doing are monstrous.
     
  15. jl22aries

    jl22aries Active Member

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    It's true Kathy is an unusual choice for a head coach and lacks for experience as an elite figure skating expert, but you would think that having been hired for the job, the very least she could do is study up on the black and white, and have it at the tip of her fingertips at all times like a second language, to pull out as soon as her client requires the support. If fans can access the rulebook, she should be glued to it. So she must have a good understanding of the COP system?! It's all so odd to me.
     
  16. ali_dorate

    ali_dorate New Member

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    FYI, Patrick made same kind of mistakes under some professional coaches, IE, 2008 World (Don Laws) and 2010 COR (Christy Krall).
    Actually I remember Patrick said "I'll never do it again" kind of thing at COR press conference.

    So we can't blame coaches. Patrick is responsible for this.
    I think Patrick was upset when he failed the first 4T and couldn't add 3T after the second 4T. If he knew the scores of Havi and Yuzu, he surely realized that he could not surpass them with a fall and "4T+SEQ."

    It's very tough situation for Patrick. The vase values of Yuzu, Havi, Dai and Kozuka are all higher than Patrick's. So if they did well, Patrick needs almost perfect performance to win.
     
  17. sequins

    sequins New Member

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    Yes those kind of 'mental mistakes' seem out of character for Chan but I give him all the credit in the world for going with his gut and taking this risk. I believe that if it doesn't work out he'll admit that and change things again. The fact is the rest of the world has caught up with him and it isn't going to be easy but I am loving the programs this year, I really 'feel' them in a way I didn't in the past and that can only be a positive thing. Still not giving up hope for the season and I try to look on the bright side. Maybe the haters can take a break and find a new target for a while. Just long enough for Patrick to sneak up again and take Olympic gold;)
     
  18. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    :lol: You're :p , TA.

    I am worried with his miscalculations on the jumps, and I agree with fscric that Patrick and his coach should work out the different scenarios in case of failed jumps. I hope Patrick will do something about that.

    I don't think Patrick ever think that he can beat his competitors with falls. Based on the interviews, his errors started after the first quad fall and he just couldn't tag the right jump to his other jumps to make up for that mistake. His competitors now have quads so the game plan has changed from last year where his strongest competitors didn't have quads. His competitors didn't have perfect skates and quads last year and that allowed him to win with a fall or two just like Daisuke and Hanyu winning with falls this season. I do hope Patrick and those surrounding him know what he must do as the season progresses into 2013 where IMO is the most important season leading to Sochi 2014. Hey, if any of you are attending the forthcoming CSOI shows hwere Patrick will be performing, please give Patrick a hug and tell him we wish him all the best, are worried for him but still love him .....even though his hair is super-short, he wears see-through lace top and make silly falls. :D

    The Accordion, haterzz will be haterzz. It's an obsessive compulsive disorder of the mind which only psychiatrists may be able to help. Patrick not winning will not calm them. We may have to accept the fact that sanity is boring so we need madness to remind us the value reason and logic. :p
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
  19. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    :respec:

    “Almost 90 per cent of the time I practice a quad-toe-triple-toe, so it was a bit of a curveball. I never do triple Lutz-triple toe. I had to think on my feet.

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/figur...at-grand-prix-final-heading-into-long-program

    I was quite surprised to read that statement Patrick made after his SP skate at the GPF because it was the triple Lutz/triple toe that kept him in the lead in the short program at last year's Worlds and a couple other competitions. So it shouldn't have been about thinking on his feet in Sochi but just automatically doing what he had done in previous similar situations when the quad/triple combination had failed him in the short.

    Patrick's jump content has been the same since 2011 Worlds and now that Patrick has been convinced that the judges are willing to give him higher choreography/interpretation marks this season than in past seasons, I do hope he will return to the tech side and try to raise the difficulty of his long program. A skater who moved from no quads in 2010 to 2 quads in 2011 should be able to do it.:)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
  20. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Love this comment! Sanity is boring that is why some of us enjoy sparring with others who are off their meds or in an institution!
     
  21. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    This article below with several quotes from Patrick that I bumped into reminded me of Alexei Yagudin, another champion of figure skating I was a supporter of in the past. Yagudin too went through very difficult times in the 1999-2000 and particularly the 2000-2001 season - with no coach or choreographer changes whatsoever - but Yagudin admitted publicly that he had developed stage fright and had lost his joy for skating only long after retiring from eligible competition, unlike Chan opening his heart now.
    Just to give you a quick example, if you had had a chance to see Yagudin compete at Japan Open 2000, you would have been tempted to think he wouldn't be able to win anything anymore unless all his rivals totally fell apart because he had just four triple jumps to do there and he messed up the landing on as many as three of those jumps.:eek: So perhaps someone should tell Patrick that he is in pretty good company. lol The more so as Chan told a reporter a few years ago that Yagudin was his Olympic hero.

    http://en.rsport.ru/other_sports/20121209/634949398.html

    I personally feel it's the pressure of being at the top of the men's field last season and two seasons ago at the root of Chan's current issues and somehow I had expected that because you just can't win all the time while knowing the other guys are after your titles and will want to gun you down figuratively speaking. Hopefully Chan will overcome his insecurities and bounce back sooner or later because yes, I agree, the challenge would be supposed to push him and give him new motivation. And he is a really brilliant skater.
     
  22. vigiliae

    vigiliae New Member

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    After reading his comment on the icenetwork article, I started to think that he is not afraid of being defeated, but rather tired of being blamed whatever he did. Haters gonna hate, it's one thing he knows well but if it continues like last 3~4 years I don't think anyone who is able to not think of it.
    The technical scoring situation is also quite bad for Patrick heading into the Olympics. The requirements on the Lv 4 step sequence have been reduced and now almost everyone gets PCS boosts as well. Although Patrick is still one of the most reliable quad jumpers in the field I don't have a high hope on his 4S and don't think he can do 2 3As in the free skating.(I sincerely hope I am proven to be wrong.)
    I believe in him and his team do whatever to progress but cannot help becoming pessimistic. Which is so bitter, since I keep amused seeing him growing as a fantastic skater in every aspect especially since after Vancouver and think he deserves the prize and praises he wants so much.
     
  23. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    After a couple of COP mistakes, I am starting to think perhaps his programs are just too busy and require too much focus for him to think on his feet and NOT do that 2toe after the 2axel.

    instead, he needs to have his plan B worked out in advance.
     
  24. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    I'm more concerned about the popped jumps. Popped jumps are worse than falling, and he's done so in his three GP events.

    At this point, I'd hope for the best, but it might take him falling completely off the podium at Worlds before he realizes how important a technical coach is.
     
  25. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    I don't recall Chan ever zayacking before and have had a bad feeling about this coaching change ever since it was announced.
     
  26. ali_dorate

    ali_dorate New Member

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    Reading that comment -"[the lower scores] will please some people."- gave a real shock to me.

    I've never heard such a "negative" comment from him on his defeat before. He has been an athlete who always maintains a positive attitude and tries to see the bright side of what he experienced.
    Yes, he has not lost that mentality as he said "there were a lot of good things:the triple Axel, the triple loop."
    But "[the lower scores] will please some people."?? That's not the bright side!

    I don't know in what situation ( to what question) he made this comment but it's quite unusual.

    He has been asked time and again silly questions by the media such as, "Why do you think your score is so high?," "There are people who claim your score is too high. What do you think?" and so on.
    Maybe there was someone who asked same kind of silly question at the press conference. I can't believe he said that comment without being asked any question.

    Anyway I think the most important thing for Patrick is to regain self-confidence. To believe in his practice.
    I don't think it's a good idea to add 4S or second 3A right now because he has not find his own rhythm especially in FS. Rather, if and when he nails two quad and one 3A constantly like in last season, he is still unbeatable because he can put much pressure on his rivals with higher vase values as Kurt once said on a Podcast.

    (Still I'm not sure if it's good for Patrick to win 2013 Worlds. Heading into Olympic as a three time World Champion is too much pressure to bear. Having strong competitions and sharing the pressure with them would be a favorable condition.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
  27. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Chan did zayak before, at 2008 Worlds and 2010 Cup of Russia as ali_dorate pointed out upthread. Maybe he's zayaking once every two years?;) There's other skaters who've been zayaking every now and then although they've always had technical coaches supervising their practices, so I'm not sure it's that. But I too have been feeling uncomfortable about Chan not having a qualified tech person by his side.

    Didn't he nail two quads and the 3A in the free skate at 2012 Worlds? I remember he did. Should Patrick not add another quad or a second 3A to his LP, he would know that he would need to skate cleanly each time he competed with skaters who have more difficult jump content than he does and that would constantly put extra pressure on him IMO.

    I agree as I feel he is not trusting his training enough and perhaps that's where a tech coach would come into the picture? Chan taking more responsibility for his training might not be such a bright idea though.

    Agree.:)
     
  28. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    Patrick has always been aware that his marks have been questioned when he makes mistakes. He is probably right that some people will be happy to see his lower scores. But at the same time, his attempts to expand his artistic range have won him new fans this seasons, and the Chan hate has abated.

    I agree. He absolutely does not want to peak in 2013 and needs to hold something back for Sochi.

    I don't know about that. The 3A is his weakest jump. IMO he should seek to maximize points elsewhere, unless the 3A becomes consistent. That said, he's been improving on it steadily.


    ITA. But I don't know if Chan can see that. It would be a shame for him to a lose an OG becomes he takes responsibility that should be handed over to an appropriate coach. Back to Krall, for example?
     
  29. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    VarBar, there seems to be a weird coincidence that Yag was fifth in his first Olympics and took time off 'to improve his artistry' too prior to the 2002 Olympic season! I like Yag too and his 2002 Olympic programs were absolutely brilliant.

    ali dorate, where is the article where Patrick said, ‘his low marks will please some people’? Vigilae is right. Haters will be haters (that’s their job and past time). Most importantly, Patrick needs to know who are those who truly care? And he needs to ‘skate for himself’ and not try too hard to please others. The reality is that in trying to please everyone we please no one. There is a lot of pressure as two time World Champion and being unbeatable in the 2011-2012 season to continue the winning streak which IMO is not easy to maintain without risking injuries with the continuous intensive training. Perhaps, maybe Kurt or PJ can have a chat with Patrick?

    Emdee is going to watch CSOI this weekend, and we can ask her to convey our heartfelt messages to Patrick and the other skaters. Hear hear Emdee, you are our official emissary.
     
  30. ali_dorate

    ali_dorate New Member

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    Of course he did. My bad. :duh: Sorry Patrick! You did great 4Ts and 3A. (I'll correct my post.)

    It's from Icenetwork as vigiliae suggested.
    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121208&content_id=40582472&vkey=ice_news
    BTW, I saw the EX on TV today (Broadcast yesterday in Japan).
    He showed us his usual smile in his EX "Til Kingdom Come." But it made me sad all the more. And it made that EX so beautiful and emotional.
    I hope he'll relax and enjoy the performances with three former world champions at Celebration on Ice. Maybe lucky people will see the new EX with hat.;)