Patrick Uber Thread - from Vancouver to Sochi

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by ali_dorate, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. Sauron

    Sauron New Member

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    Here is a Globe and Mail article - Patrick Chan honours late coach by returning to ‘greatest hits':

    http://tinyurl.com/ko2uvhc
     
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  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    2 more articles:

    http://www.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130819&content_id=57506924&vkey=ice_news
    Excerpt:
    Beverley Smith's article for the Skate Canada site: http://www.skatecanada.ca/AboutUs/NewsDetails/tabid/2157/sni[2797]/2806/language/en-US/Default.aspx
    Excerpt:
    (My nitpick: Actually, Chan has competed earlier before - several times at Liberty in July.)
     
  3. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Chan's first day back in the gym and maybe also back in Detroit was 10 July and maybe just 35 days between then and Thornhill were nor enough for him to build up the strength and endurance that are required for a program as complex as this new Four Seasons? Just a thought. If the only key to building up endurance were a place like Colorado Springs, I'm guessing all the skaters training in Detroit would have to leave DSC and run to the mountains?;)

    And I thought to myself Chan has bulked up quite a bit lately when I saw this picture of him they took in Detroit like a month ago.

    http://instagram.com/p/blwTUjx124/

    Sometimes things aren't by far as bad as they look.:)

    I am really not worried for Patrick's stamina or his jumps other than the 3A. Btw, I noticed he moved this jump back to the first half of his program.

    Thanks everyone for the links to articles.
     
  4. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Accordion, I share your concern when I saw that he looked so very tired after the skate. But then, VarBar has a point. He has only 35 days of training in Detroit assuming he returned there in July and also his training may be disrupted by the local competition held recently in Detroit. I also think he probably has to travel to Toronto to learn his new LP from Wilson so he probably won't be training that full 35 days.

    Although Colorado Spring's altitude training is good for him, again I see VarBar's logic that there are more ways of building one's stamina. I hope he trains well to build his stamina too because his lp is a very vigorous demanding program.

    Emdee attended the competition. According to her, she didn't think Patrick was rolling his eyes at Kathy. It was thought that Patrick looked 'angry with himself' rather than anyone else.

    Me too esp. his upper body ... :lol:

    I think he has a higher success rate in his quads than 3A!

    Yes, I think it is best to do what one feels most comfortable. He has tried both ways and now know that the former suits him better.

    A pix of Patrick taken by the daughter of a Patrick's fan. The caption was: Spent Sunday afternoon in the cold waiting for mum's idol!:lol:
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  5. spiral9509

    spiral9509 Skating is Language

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    Here is another fancam at 2013 COS (Central Ontario Summer Skate).

    Patrick Chan FS "The Four Seasons" http://youtu.be/nY2dWn_PCTY

    8/18/2013 COS
     
  6. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much spiral. I watched it again from different angle. Wasn't perfect and some parts need working on but on the whole, can't wait to see when all is in place.
     
  7. luckiest1

    luckiest1 Well-Known Member

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    Gah, thanks for the new link. It's great to watch it from different angles. I particularly love the move from about 2:13 - 2:16 in this new video. He did it on the 6 minute warm up and I went 'whoa!'. I also didn't think he looked any thinner than usual. I am not worried at all, it's early times. It is going to be a stunning free skate!
     
  8. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    I don't think my arguments sounded convincing to The Accordion.;)

    With the quality of body movement and quality of skating - speed, power, flow, ease and edge control - Chan already displayed at Thornhill, half of the job is done for him. I was so blown away by this program when I first watched the official video that I almost didn't notice his jumps. I'd watch Four Seasons over and over without getting tired. Never felt like that about La bohème. I agree with Patrick, La bohème wasn't him. Saw his 6 min warm-up and all the jumps were there. Not the best quality on the 3A but he landed it on one foot and the jump was huge. I think confidence is what he needs but unfortunately confidence is much more difficult to build than stamina. Hopefully he'll find a way coz he has everything else. Go Patrick.:kickass:
     
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  9. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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  10. Corianna

    Corianna Active Member

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    I do remember that when Patrick came out, I remarked to my companion that he looked older. He did not appear to be thinner over all, but his face looked more angular as you say. However the lighting in the arena was deadly, really deadly, and drained colour from everyone, even those in the seats. (The lights also had the most annoying buzz. ) And no, I have not seen him so frustrated, tense - whatever it was, either. Nevertheless the programme is gorgeous, He was really flying - just flying- in the first section. And I was enormously cheered by the Globe and Mail video of the media scrum. He looked and sounded just fine, and it could only have been filmed a few moments after he left the ice. Overall, I would say that Patrick seemed absolutely determined to get down to serious business, and work like the devil to have a great season. I have faith.
     
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  11. luckiest1

    luckiest1 Well-Known Member

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    There is video of the media scrum? Link?
     
  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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  13. luckiest1

    luckiest1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, don't know how I missed that the first time around!
     
  14. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps Patrick's "leaner" face is simply his face maturing?
     
  15. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    I like your sense of humour, ProfDeb! :lol: Anyway, he is no longer sweet 17! :D
    And I am sure having a difficult time last season would have made him grown up a lot too. ;)

    That is my impression too Corianna. Listening to him on how he's 'trying to put the pieces together', I get the impression that he and his team are working hard to get his LP into a form he wanted - what he is comfortable with and what moved him. And I agree that unless you love the program, it cannot be part of you and you cannot be part of it. The first 2-3 minutes of the program is brilliant. Like you said Corianna, he was flying from one end to the other seamlessly. It is the last minute or so which I think needs to be tidied. I am not worried about his program. It is there but just not in the final form.

    Last season, I got the impression that he was going through a really rough and emotional time. Now, I get the impression that he has finally found his inner motivation to do what he needs to do. He sounded happy that the season he has waited for the past few years is finally here.
     
  16. key65man

    key65man New Member

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    The music is certainly a challenge to skate to as it has a great dynamic contrast (volume-wise) and delivers a visceral impact when dynamically greater at a faster tempo.

    Chan’s motions and movements over the dynamically stronger sections are well amplified, but I am not sure if they are properly done in terms of “power” to match the level of contrast in the music, especially in the winter section toward the end.

    I certainly can see that Chan wants to maintain grace through out the program. And, it is possible to be of grace and power at the same time. I just think that he can use a bit more power for the dynamically stronger parts even if that means sacrificing grace and elegance a bit.

    Maybe, it is Wilson or stamina, I don’t know. I guess it can be just a matter of taste since I tend to think that Chan sometimes is trying too hard looking elegant, and I don't blame him since there seems to be a tendency to overemphasize beauty, elegance, grace, etc. in figure skating.

    I am sure that my nit-pick is not going to make a difference point-wise. Chan is one of very few who can perform a masterpiece superior in overall athleticism, technique and artistry. I hope he goes out leaving a truly great program this season which I personally think is more important than the color of medal in Sochi.
     
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  17. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    All this criticism for a new program's first outing?
    Let's watch it "mature", please: just as Patrick has!
     
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  18. Simone411

    Simone411 aka IceSkate98

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    Thank you so much for sharing the video. I definitely like the program and Patrick's choice of music. It suits him well. :respec: I can't wait for this season to begin! :)
     
  19. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Just a feeling that I had, The Accordion.:)

    Fair enough, key65man. I think I can agree with most of your points. But as skatesindreams said, it was Chan's first showing and it was just mid-August. Hopefully hard training and a larger rink than the hockey rink he skated at in Thornhill will enable him to put more power into his performance. Also, I would expect his competition costume to be ready by his next event.
     
  20. Corianna

    Corianna Active Member

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    I have no doubt the power will be forthcoming, I have to confess I kinda hope the costume won't be. I like him in the simple loose shirt ( it was the one he wore for the exhibition when what is now his short was his ex. I'm not so fond of the fussy and distracting.
     
  21. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    I hope he is angry enough about himself to get technical help.

    I share The Accordian's viewpoint. I just have a very bad feeling about Patrick's Olympic possibilities. This feeling began the minute he fired Krall and the stamina issue was very apparent last season.

    Basically, I think Patrick is on the decline. I also think that - sadly - this may because of his coaching and training decisions.
     
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  22. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for these details and thoughts- they make sense and I appreciate you sharing Patrick's good state of mind in the press scrum as well. That is reassuring at least.

    I hope this is not the case - but if it is - I am thinking I wouldn't really blame him or anyone if he doesn't peak at the exact right time for the Olympics.

    Now I am not saying that won't happen - but if it doesn't - I can't find it surprising that it would be just that tough to be as good as he is for so long and for the exact right time in a 4 year cycle. I am just baffled by exactly what it takes to be able to be able to do what the top skaters do - the discipline - the amount of work physically, mentally, socially, and even having to eat the exact right foods all the time. No straying if you want to be among the top 5 % - let alone the man who can do what IMO only Patrick Chan has been able to do. I get the feeling from what I have read and what he has done - that it just wasn't enjoyable for him anymore with Krall - doing what he had to do under her guidance. I also remember reading that he was about to quit skating his last year with her - and the coaching change seems to be the other option.

    I think about Jeff Buttle - saying he never stayed up past 9pm on New Years while he was competing. And then he won Worlds and instead of staying in for an Olympics in his own country 2 years later - he turned professional. Now I know some may say that there was a good chance he wouldn't repeat as a medalist - but he said he just didn't have the fire anymore to train the way he needed to. It is even possible that Patrick experienced something like that but either he or those around him couldn't face the idea of not going to the Olympics. Just a possibility. I can't imagine being in any way unmotivated facing the kind of discipline and tough training necessary to be at the top of your game in this era and under IJS. No slacking.

    And then there is the question if he had not been injured at the beginning of the 2009/10 season what would have happened? I mean he was so systematic in his progress and without the injury would he have been able to skate the way he did a year later at the Olympics instead?

    Peaking for the season is complicated enough - let alone peaking at the exact time during the 4 year Olympic cycle.

    Ultimately I just hope that he is able to enjoy this season. I do think for him - that will mean skating well so I hope if he is happy with his current training situation that it will also work for him for what he wants to achieve.

    On a happy note - I remember him saying last year part of the reason for the change was he wanted to grow more as a performer - and with all the controversy over his falls and wins not everyone agrees with - I think we can miss how hard he has worked to do this.
     
  23. geoskate

    geoskate Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree with this. IMO he's a much better performer than he was two or three seasons ago. That's especially apparent in his exhibition programs, which are beginning to approach Kurt Browning levels, but IMO it is apparent to some extent in all of his skating now.
     
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  24. key65man

    key65man New Member

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    Conversely, wouldn’t it be better to make a suggestion/criticism this early if the suggestion/criticism were legitimate and constructive? One of the reasons for a skater to perform this early is to evaluate and modify a thing or two if necessary.

    Of course, the point I was making may not be germane, might already have been considered or is part of the plan. Furthermore, it is hardly realistic to believe that Wilson, Chan or his coach would stop by an internet forum to get a feedback after the first showing. So, what I say here probably is inconsequential right now.

    My apologies if my comments were unpleasant.
     
  25. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    A quote from ESPN Olympics that Chan retweeted recently.

    Could this quote be a description of Patrick's own current state of mind?;)

    Anyway:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSjUaYTIcAA1vN2.jpg:large

    I don't remember Patrick wearing busy costumes that would distract from his skating. Maybe he or his costume designer doesn't believe in the concept that busy, flashy and flamboyant would help enhance the artistic impression.;)
    If I were into gambling games, I would bet on at least a new shirt for him for his Four Seasons program.
     
  26. Corianna

    Corianna Active Member

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    A whole bunch of skaters and other athletes re-tweeted that. My guess is they all feel that way sometimes. And you're right, Patrick's costumes are relatively restrained. I just prefer them even more restrained. My skating buddy and I have a game where we award a Mandatory two point bad costume deduction. It hasn't changed the podium yet, though.

    The Accordion, I loved your post.
     
  27. blueglass

    blueglass New Member

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    Chan has never hidden the fact that had he won gold (or possibly any medal) in Vancouver he'd have been history. Figure skating is his job and he has devoted his young life to being the best that he can be - but he can't approach it like a Kurt Browning, who has kept his love for skating going for more than two decades. Patrick's goal is that elusive Olympic gold medal and the coaching/choreographer choices he makes are made as much to help keep his head in the game as they are to maintain and improve his skills. I can't imagine what an ordeal the last few years have been for him especially given the viciousness of the criticism directed at him. That's why I believe Patrick's the only one who knows what he needs and what is right for him.
     
  28. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Right on the dot, blueglass. That is exactly how I felt and see it. The manner in which he was 'viciously attacked and put down' is beyond comprehension. He was also being used to indirectly attack the current judging system. Reading the nasty posts on him, hypocrisy and vindictiveness are evident. It left a nasty taste in my mouth and a shock on how some of us can behave towards others we don't really know. I felt like he owes everyone a living never mind if he's an amateur athlete fully funded by his parents.

    Accordion, in relation to Buttle's move to professional skating, I GUESS this is more likely happened. I too have wondered how much sacrifice these elite athletes put in to reach where they are today. The sacrifices – time money (family’s support) physical endurance just for the medals? I can understand Buttle’s decision. He might have weighed the ‘sacrifices’ against obtaining the elusive OGM, and concluded that he just didn’t have motivation anymore to go through the demanding training to win OGM. And being a World gold medallist and Olympic bronze medallist, I am sure the pressure would have been even worse than before going into his second Olympic competition. I don’t think he has any regrets. Buttle has since catapulted as an upcoming choreographer relatively well known in a very short spate of time.

    Coming back to Patrick, his training regime as indicated in the documentary was very demanding. Whilst it did work, it may have taken the joy out of skating for him. And to find that joy again, he needed to find the balance perhaps a balance which I guess Krall did not agree so she quitted.

    Here’s a thread which someone posted on Gillian Carleton in relation to her depression and training: .http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...ist-Gillian-Carleton-discusses-her-depression I think most elite athletes may be able to identify with her issues.
     
  29. vocal

    vocal New Member

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    He he, love that, Corianna. My skating buddies and I do the same thing. To be honest we have to award a lot of deductions.
     
  30. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    What you are saying, basically, is that Patrick may have a motivation problem and lack competitive fire. That might in part explain what was going on with him last season.

    If working with Krall wasn't 'enjoyable', maybe he wasn't focused on results and she was - which could again be about a lack of motivation.

    Enough elite athletes have done it. It takes a single-minded focus and unbelievable drive. And Patrick hadn't peaked yet in 2010.

    Given the resources available to Patrick, and his ability to access and pay for them, there is no reason why he can't peak at the Olympics. Especially since he has no need to peak at Nationals.

    Of course, it's possible for an athlete to peak at the Olympics but still make mistakes that cost titles.

    But the stamina issue and consistent jump problems Patrick exhibited last season and in his last competition are really training issues.

    If he's just struggling to stay in the game because it is expected of him, it will be a tough season for both him and his fans.

    Can he enjoy it if he doesn't win the OGM, given the pressure that will be put on him? The Canadian media will milk his three world titles for all they are worth and then same. The Canadian media will tell us over and over and over again about the possibility of a first Gold medal in men's for Canada. If Patrick has a poor Grand Prix season, that might dampen the media's outlook to some point, but will also put more pressure on Patrick.

    True. But major mistakes and a lack of stamina cannot help but diminish the artistry of a program, even for a skater as good as Patrick.