Patrick Uber Thread - from Vancouver to Sochi

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by ali_dorate, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. girlscouse62

    girlscouse62 Active Member

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    IIRC, Patrick says he suffers severe jet lag when traveling, and Japan is a fair way to go with lots of time zones, and doesn't do well with different foods. So here's wishing him well, and a safe and restful flight. I really want him to knock it out of the ballpark, so he goes into Olys minus all his usual detractors and haters.
     
  2. Corianna

    Corianna Active Member

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    And with his happy confidence undiminished. Indeed. I sure understand about the jet lag. I imagine he'll at least have a first class ticket this time, and let's hope he arrives early.
     
  3. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    I'm not hugely worried about it. The Japanese men have a lot more riding on the results of the GPF as opposed to Patrick, because results of the GPF will potentially secure an Olympic spot for Dai, Hanyu or Machida (pretty much guaranteed, unless the Japanese men go 4-5-6). So, I wouldn't be shocked if one of the Japanese guys win.
     
  4. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    I know this is a Patrick fan thread...so don't wanna say too much...but come on, regardless how Dai/Hanyu perform at GPF or their National, they ARE GOING to Sochi. The other 3/4 Japanese men will fight for one last spot.

    Patrick should go there a few days ahead of time to get rid of the jetlag. I hope he will win. Not that it matters, but to continue with the momentum is key.
     
  5. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    They are competing more against each other than they are against Chan. Isn't it is the top finisher in the GPF who gets a bye to Sochi (regardless of placement)?

    That saying, if Japan goes 1-2, it might help #2 to get a spot, providing he does well at Nats.
     
  6. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    I am fairly of the opinion that with these two programs patrick is competing against himself.
    The Olys will bring other tensions but the GPF will just be another rehearsal or the big event.
     
  7. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    So this GPF is the last "international" competition before Sochi isn't it? I wonder if he gets beaten in TES scores, will he try to up his TES base value at National? I think if he is more confident with his 3A, he may add another one for his LP? It's pretty risky though.
     
  8. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    I think he will medal although I won't be worried even if he does not win gold though gold would be great.:D Like manhn said, the Japanese men have more to lose. Not saying that Patrick should purposely lose but I would prefer that he maintains his focus on Sochi. Whatever he gathered on his journey to Sochi is bonus.

    jett, not sure what he has to gain in adding an additional jump. It may disturb his current rhythm which seems to be going well. Then again, we don't know what his team has in mind. It probably depends on how well he and his competitors are progressing. Will see .... should know by Nationals.
     
  9. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Is double axel in combination? if so it will be a placeholder to possibly convert it to triple axel if need be.

    Likely we will know by nats or he may just convert it day off.... I loved his Triple axel in TEB especially in the long program.
     
  10. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    I thought the Japanese selection system for Worlds and Olympics was solely based on how the skaters place at Nationals but maybe I was wrong.

    Going back to Patrick, I'm thinking that since he has considered doing two 3As at Nationals, he already knows how the choreo should be tweaked to accommodate two triple axel jumps and at what point in the program he can attempt the second one.

    IMO Patrick doesn't need more difficult content if he can skate cleanly because the skaters who could arguably beat him on TES don't score anywhere near him on the PC mark.

    For the GPF, I just want to see a confident and relaxed Patrick who enjoys skating and competing. The GPF is not the Olympic Games. Nor is TEB for that matter although I suspect Patrick wished it had been because the monstrously high score he posted for a flawless free is pretty damn hard even for him to top.
     
  11. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    I think I heard that his personal goal for the Olys is 300 so yes his program is worked for him to top that.

    The scare tactic ( which he didnt mean) is probably in his favour. Seeing his perfect skate at TEB others are likely going to go back and load their programs with high level elements and choreo just putting more stress on themselves. This could work for or against him IMO. Judging from interviews etc it seems to me that some others have just conceded to him. Brezina's face as he stood clapping for Patrick on the boards at the TEB FS was telling indeed.
     
  12. skatingguy

    skatingguy Active Member

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    I don't really see Patrick changing the program at this point to add the second 3A. He couldn't turn the 2A at the end of the program to a 3A because then it wouldn't count as he would have already had two 4Ts and two 3Lzs. In order to add the second 3A it would have to replace the 2nd 3Lz and then take the 2T from the end of the 3F and add it to one of the 3As.
     
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  13. aglee

    aglee New Member

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    Agreed. Another interesting reaction was John Coughlin shaking his head and mouthing "wow".
     
  14. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    Other than Dai/Hanyu, the other 4 Japanese have more to lose. I don't see how those two will not go to Sochi. Once their National is over, they will be more focus on Sochi, and they are major threat to Patrick. Patrick's TES can be beat. So if he's comfortable with his 3A, I can see he will add. EVERYONE POINT counts.

    Okay, so for curiosity's sake. If Patrick adds another 3A, meaning he will have to replace it with 3Lz and in combination, what additional marks will he get?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  15. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    True. But that also leave him with no room for error. If Dai/Hanyu skate well, and Patrick makes one error, it can be costly.
     
  16. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Assuming he does a 3A+2T, 3F and 2A instead of a 3Lz, 3F+2T, and 2A, his base value increased by 3.52. If he does the triple axel combination in the first half and does the solo in the second, he gains "only" 3.39. I'd love it if he had the 4S or 4F, though.

    I'd assert for all the Japanese skaters, that guaranteeing your spot before Nationals (as Chan's spot basically is) allows them to gear up for the Olympics more appropriately.
     
  17. Corianna

    Corianna Active Member

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    Their nationals are early though.
     
  18. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    I can't imagine Patrick changing up his program at this point. Usually he takes all season to get really comfortable with a program, learn all the breathing spots, etc. I also vaguely remember him saying there would be no new tech development this season. He really doesn't need a second 3A. He gets such high goe on his jumps that he's equal or better than the other guys in TES anyway.
     
  19. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    I wondered whether Patrick missed a two double jump combo following a triple late in the program. There was a tiny stumble and it looked to me like he missed the chance to launch the second double. It is just a few points, yes, but a few points that could make the difference between gold and silver - and a few points he can work towards ensuring he earns in Sochi. Basically, I think he can still take his programs to a higher level.

    And of course the team event is the wild card this season. CBC explored that at length when Browning interviewed Buttle. Buttle's view was positive and he saw the team event as a run through to work out the final kinks. Kurt wasn't sure what he thought about the new event, especially since is the first time it has been competed at in the Olympics and no skaters know how to train for it, as well as their individual events.

    Basically, we should be prepared for the team event to wreak havoc with the individual results.

    It will make for an interesting Olympics, that's for sure.
     
  20. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    No, he didn't. What you saw at TEB is exactly the jump layout he has planned for the long program.

    Who do you have in mind, emdee? I personally don't think Orser for instance would encourage his students to do even more difficult elements than they are already attempting and, choreographically speaking, the free skates of both Javier and Yuzuru look like finished products to me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  21. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    Thanks. Wow...with such higher risk, only to gain 3+ point? Lol...okay maybe it's not worth it. That's still the problem with the scoring system. Take the TEB as an example. Patrick and Hanyu skated a clean program. Hanyu got higher TES because he placed his combo after mid point. I am sure Patrick could do the same. But 4+3 to start is such a bomb. I think it doesn't get reward more than it should considering it's the most difficult jump. It's crazy to think that putting a solo quad, then 3+3 later get you more point then 4+3 and 3.
     
  22. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    That's my feeling too. Yes, he said he won't be doing any 'new crazy stuff' this season. He's doing what he is comfy with (I personally that's wise because the goal is not to show creativity but to win in Sochi). jett, that means he will do all the quads and 3A in the first half. I think concentrating on getting his 3A in his back pocket (as Kurt advised) and aiming the highest level and best GOEs for all his elements and skating is the way to go and I think is his strategy too. I am happy that Vivaldi is well received by judges and fans alike. La Boheme attracted mixed reactions last season.
     
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  23. skatingguy

    skatingguy Active Member

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    I agree, and I think that combinations should be worth an extra 10% above the base mark of the combined jumps, thereby awarding skaters who do more difficult combinations - it would also encourage skaters to attempt more difficult combinations.
     
  24. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    I thought La Boheme was well received. However, Patrick seemed to struggle with it. I personally loved it. It's too bad that he did not skate a clean La Boheme all season?
     
  25. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    I know that Hanyu has not been skating ith full choreo ...that was Wilson's complaint. In order to beat patrick all his competitors will tweak what they have.
     
  26. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    I was surprised how high Hanyu's marks were at TEB. He's no way at Patrick's level, yet his marks indicated he is :confused: So if he skates clean and Patrick makes one error, he will win :wall:
     
  27. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    Hanyu had the higher TES in the short because he does his combo at the second half the program. But his PCS is almost 4 pts behind Patrick's--which is quite a bit. In the long, Hanyu's PCS was *15* pts behind Patrick's. When it comes to the short program, Hanyu is viewed as the solid #2 if all men skate clean. However, Hanyu is not the solid #2 even if he skates his long clean (granted, he hasn't really been close, but his PCS are significantly lower).

    I try not to concern myself about what skaters can beat a flawed Chan. Chan can only control what he can do--so skate clean.
     
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  28. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Hanyu also does his 3A in the second half of the program, which brings him a bonus of 0.85.

    Indeed.
     
  29. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    He can't do a 3 jump combo late in the program, because his triple lutz - half loop - triple salchow is already a 3 jump combo, and the skaters are only allowed one. So he can't add another double toe or double loop onto his triple flip-triple toe combo because he wouldn't get any credit.
     
  30. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    So what is your fave part of Patrick's LP this season? My fave part is right after the 2A near the end, the music changed and the foot work started, very fast, uplifting, great choreo matching the music, just awesome to watch. I hope more people will clap their hands at Olympic during that section.