Patrick Uber Thread - Chiddy Biddies Think Chan Can

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by VarBar, Feb 6, 2014.

  1. puglover

    puglover Active Member

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    It seems like he has been going to the Cricket Club for Jeff/David Wilson choreographing his programs. I thought I had read that part? of the reason he didn't choose to skate there was because of Osborne Colson who I believe was no longer affiliated with it and left under not the best of circumstances. I certainly don't know anything about Toronto skating politics. I agree - "Mr. triple axel" would be a wonderful addition - even if it was just part time or for the summer. I saw him land some beauties in Ottawa at Canadians in the warm up and in the long - but it is certainly not his go to jump. I do appreciate the fact that he has chosen his coach, believes in her, and his federation appears to respect their athletes enough to support their choices.
     
  2. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    I watched his SP & LP again today, with a friend who is borderline FS fan. She was not familiar with any of the new skaters, including Patrick (although he is not new to skating fans), mainly because she does not have cable and has to make great efforts to watch the programs. She does watch about once a year or once every 2 years. I respect her observations, because she has a fresh eye and is able to notice something that I may have missed. She loved his SP; said he was flying across the ice, and it was beautiful. While watching the LP though, she said toward the end (when the music becomes faster) - he is not keeping up with the music, and the program did not really go UP at the end. I know that normally he does it well, but quite possibly, with the pressure of the Olympics perhaps he did not skate as well as he normally does (not talking of the jumps here; just the skating and musical interpretation). Neither did Yuzuru actually. It was so close; if not for the SP differential, this was really anyone's gold- Patrick's or Yuzuru's. Patrick was very gracious in both the K&C and on the 'flower podium'. He managed a smile when he must have been clearly hurting.
     
  3. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    This Chiddy Biddy is very proud our our Patrick. He went out and did as best he could in the circumstance that were difficult at best. Silver may not be the colour he (and the Canadian Skating Community) were hoping for, but he is now a two-time silver Olympic Medalist.

    Congrats, Patrick!! I'm very proud of you. This Chiddy Biddy will ALWAYS cheer for you. You are, quite simply, the best at what you do regardless of the colour of your Olympic meda

    Lots of hugs and air kisses to you!

    One proud internet mama.
     
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  4. coppertop1

    coppertop1 Active Member

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    I think when Patrick made those first two mistakes the wheels started turning and he got cautious, not wanting to give away more points which backfired. As soon as you think "Don't do X", you do it. As Brian Boitano advised Michelle Kwan in 1997, "Don't think 'don't''".

    I've had the pleasure of seeing him skate live. I think those who bash him overlook his pure quality. The speed he skates with is incredible and he's so smooth and fluid with deep edges. I could watch him with no jumps just skating around to music, stroking around using his edges, he'd still be mesmerizing.

    Let's look at the most famous Canadian Men who never won the OGM:
    Brian Orser: 1984- too far back after compulsories. Would have won gold if not for that. 1988-- Battle of the Brians, need I say more?
    Kurt Browning: 1992- Back injury and pressure. 1994- Maybe the ghost of 1992, bad short program. Out of the medals
    Elvis Stojko: 1994- Judges didn't like his style. 1998- Groin injury (though hard to say if he would have beaten Kulik even w/o that). Not a contender in 2002
    Jeff Buttle: Not a favourite for gold.\
    Patrick Chan: I don't think he was favoured for gold in 2010. 2014: Reasons we've all discussed. Pressure he puts on himself and the hype from the media.

    Maybe a Canadian man will win the OGM when everyone stops assuming it will happen and decide que sera, sera.
     
  5. SiriusboutBlack

    SiriusboutBlack Member

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  6. bunhead

    bunhead New Member

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    I was pleasantly surprised that NBC featured him in a nice fluff piece and interviewed him on camera after his Free Program last night. Patrick has been a wonderful role model and representative of Canada for quite some time now. He makes me proud to be Chinese Canadian. Thank you for all your sacrifices and gorgeous skating, Patrick. You're a national treasure!
     
  7. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    Good summary. Somewhat OT: The only one I disagree with is Elvis Stojko. It wasn't just about the judges not liking his style; he made a major mistake (popped 3A into 1A, then skipped the quad which took away his tech advantage). Chan had the PCS advantage, and could afford one mistake, but not three, so he came up short on the TES. He did get higher PCS. I think the SP probably cost him the gold in the end. Even though he lost the LP by just 0.5 (approx) points, if he had the lead in the SP, he might have felt less pressure in the LP, and could have had a cleaner (though not perfect) skate, enough to edge out Hanyu.

    I saw him skate live in 2009 (worlds) and thought he had great potential. Haven't seen him skate live since, but I know that he will go down in history as one of the best pure skaters ever. He was an overwhelming favorite for the OGM this time- even more than Orser in 88 and Browning in 92, so this was a much bigger shock.

    I agree with your last sentence.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
  8. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    I thought Patrick's statement that he now has "a weight lifted off his shoulders" spoke volumes. He indicates a sense of huge relief now that his OG are over. He wasn't fully committed to these games in his heart.

    IMO Patrick is not a skater who loves to compete. I don't think he really wanted this OG from the innermost core of his being. He felt that he 'could' do it and and 'should do it', and focused on that too early in the season, leading him perhaps to peak at TEB.

    I feel very let down, because I watched Patrick's rise as a skater and saw him deliver some amazing performances, including his 08 victory over Buttle at Nationals and his amazing FS at FCCs in 2009. I wanted Patrick deliver more at these Olympics, so was hugely disappointed. It just seemed the past few seasons that his heart was not in it. And the placement of a skater within Olympics cycles is a factor here, aso Patrick didn't hit the cycle at the right time.

    Nonetheless, I felt really let down after his skate. Disappointed even angry - so much build-up and such a disappointing anti-climax.
     
  9. mrinalini

    mrinalini Active Member

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    Me too, and I'm not even a huge fan of his. I think I'm mostly just peeved that such a poor FS won the OGM. I wouldn't like to be a big Chan fan right now because no matter how you look at it, he choked when it counted most. It wouldn't even be so bad if Hanyu had delivered a flawless LP and then the pressure would have been on Chan to be even better, but in fact the opposite scenario happened.

    I don't know how on earth anyone can say Patrick did his best in the FS - I re-watched it and it's even worse than I remember. It's without doubt one of his worst performances ever even without any falls. No fight, and he seemed to be lost throughout the whole thing - I've seen multiple performances from Chan wherein his butt met the ice with great regularity and those were light years ahead of this one.
     
  10. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Thanks SiriusboutBlack for your write up on Patrick. That's very sweet and I am sure Patrick will appreciate your kindness. I hope Patrick will pass on his skating skills to the next generation and some day Canada will find another Kurt or Patrick Junior with these wonderful skating skills together with the ability to jump.
     
  11. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    That would have been very difficult for Michelle to do considering there was no team event in 98 or 02.


    I would have loved to have seen Patrick win the event. After Hanyru skated and PC landed his first combo, I thought that he had it. I wish him well in whatever he decides to do. His skating speaks for itself.
     
  12. fscric

    fscric Active Member

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    I think Patrick's problem for this year was his determination to stay on his feet even if he had to double some jumps after the humiliation he experienced after last year's Worlds. I think that if he had known Hanyu fell twice, he might have gone for the jumps instead of playing safe to avoid falls.

    By the way, where is the petition to award another gold to the silver medalist? After all, according to those who signed the petition, someone who fell shouldn't have won any competition, right, there is none. Of course, this no-fall rule only applies to a Patrick Chan.
     
  13. blueglass

    blueglass New Member

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    I think some of you are taking this way too personally since none of us is actually doing the skating. Yes it was a poor performance but we know Patrick has never had a killer instinct - he doesn't compete against other skaters as much as he competes against himself. It's a competition - he lost. I hate to be blunt here, but get over it. It's not healthy to be angry after a figure skating event - unless of course it's about the judges ;)
     
  14. luckiest1

    luckiest1 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for these links........I hadn't seen the French interview, and while I don't speak it very well, I can understand 75% if I listen hard LOL.

    Thank you SiruisBoutBlack for that blog. And the links to the wonderful programs from Victoria, London & France. And the animated gifs. :) :)

    I don't get the anger either. I have had a few people in my life come to me with that reaction since Friday. I just want to give him a big hug and tell him I know he did the best he could at that moment. I have watched him in practice and in competition the last few years enough to know that his jumps are there. This was a mental game he lost with himself. I am so glad he got the team silver as well because I think he really feels a part of history now, regardless of the colour of his individual medal. Not that getting an Olympic silver is anything to be ashamed about, OMG! I am so proud of him.

    My favourite comment that he has made since the free skate is "I didn't go insane". Good on you Patrick. We need to somehow figure out a way not to put so much pressure on our athletes, if we ever hope to have that elusive men's gold medal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
  15. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not mad at anyone in particular. It's just disappointing in general to look forward to this event all year (if not the past 4 years) and everyone skating so poorly. It just sucks, but I'm not going to blame any of the competitors. I'm sure they all wanted to skate better, even if the result would have been the same.

    I agree that Patrick looked lost. All that pressure must have really gotten to him. Staying in for that OGM was definitely the wrong approach - you can't compete going for the placement. You have to skate for yourself. But even the great Michelle Kwan, one of the most consistent skaters in history, never skated her very best at the Olympics either. She was certainly more capable of it than Patrick, who was never exactly known for his jump consistency.

    I haven't read enough interviews with him to predict what he'll do after retiring. Maybe he'll say "Eff the OGM, I'm staying in it for me" and continue developing his artistry. He made a ton of progress the past few years, and I certainly wouldn't complain getting more programs like his Rach SP. :swoon: The only bad aspect is if his jumps started to go, all the talk would be about how that. But still, not like Canada has anyone else of his caliber coming up the ranks. After all, Jeff only retired after he won Worlds and figured his time in Canada was up, with Patrick nipping at his heels. It's really what Patrick wants for himself at this point.

    I'm still proud to call myself a fan. If I wanted to be a fan of someone with a competitor's mindset, I'd be a fan of Plushenko, but I'm not. :p I'm a fan of Patrick's skating, and I will continue to enjoy his skating no matter how well he does at any given competition.
     
  16. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Japanfan, Patrick himself said he doesn't enjoy skating and hates to compete, "It's like undergoing surgery." I often felt while reading his interviews over the past few years that he stopped enjoying what he was doing soon after he'd won his first world title and that he kept going just out of a sense of obligation to the people around him. He mentioned countless times that he was getting bored in training and feeling frustrated and unmotivated, which sounded quite weird coming from the mouth of an athlete who was usually winning and had the Olympics lying ahead of him. Looking back now to all this, I have to agree with Anita18 that Patrick staying in just for the OGM was the wrong approach because if you don't like what you're doing, it just won't work.

    blueglass, I feel Patrick's fans and those who would have liked him to win these Olympics will get over it much more quickly than Patrick will. Figure skating moves on with or without Chan and people will find other skaters to support and root for. Patrick by contrast, what were his words? "I think I'll be crushed when I go home." "It's going to take years for sure for me to go to bed and not think about it, not think about those split seconds that could have changed everything." "I don't know if I would be able to watch it seeing those mistakes and knowing those mistakes cost me the gold."

    http://www.ctvnews.ca/sochi/after-o...-unsure-of-future-in-figure-skating-1.1687988

    I think you made a great suggestion that Patrick should start planning for a future outside of competitive skating and go back to school. School wouldn't prevent him from doing some shows if he is interested. He can definitely be proud of his achievements in sport considering he's anything but one of the toughest competitors we've seen. And he'll always be the standard for the most brilliant skating basics and skills ever.
     
  17. BusyMom

    BusyMom New Member

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    In Asian culture, it is a very sad but true reality. Children have no say what so ever in their own life. Parents know best and all. I always feel sad for the kids who have to suffer doing what they hate because their parents had no chance to do them when they were young. His family is Asian after all.
     
  18. puglover

    puglover Active Member

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    Patrick has been the face of COP for men's skating and taken so much of the criticism - I am not surprised he hasn't liked to compete. I personally understand the frustration about landing all of the jumps but I could never think of a skater who is doing a COP friendly program and more consistent. I think social media etc. has really pushed these athletes out there and made them so much more aware of negative comments - and most are not celebrities making the big bucks to maybe make it worth it. If Patrick does retire I wonder who will be able to achieve these perfect 2 quad COP friendly programs with everything that has been expected of him.
     
  19. Skating678

    Skating678 New Member

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    This is a very good point.
    I always wonder how aware he is of that criticism. He doesn't seem to be the type of person reading his @replies everyday and I'm sure his team tries to keep him somewhat sheltered from it. But that's almost impossible in this day and age.
     
  20. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if it was his parents doing it. I'm Asian too, and IME the more "focused" Asian tiger parents are way more direct in getting results. No way would they have let him have a coach who never taught skating. It would be jump coaches the whole time. Artistry? Who cares! :lol:

    I'm sure there was plenty of pressure from the Canadian skating fed, so parental pressure was likely not needed. But even when it's my own parents (who were lenient by Asian standards) being supportive, I'd feel bad in giving up what they sacrificed so much to put me in. The Asian guilt complex is strong. :p It wasn't until I was on my own and paying my own way, that I could really enjoy my life with no strings attached. Maybe that's what Patrick needs, now that the weight of the OG is off him. Live his life for himself, instead of other people and the pressure of his own talent.
     
  21. coppertop1

    coppertop1 Active Member

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    Thank you for this. Seriously, we wonder why athletes are so hard and we're thinking he should explain what happened or that we feel he should explain. Are fans really that entitled that we feel skaters can't have bad day? Patrick didn't fail to to deliver on a contract, or a promise. He won silver and had a lacklustre performance on a night where no one went for it. Let's ease up, it's not like he lost something that belonged to us.

    A petition asking for a second gold medal for Patrick? Sorry, I don't buy into that. Yes, Hanyu fell but to say Patrick deserved to win is very, very debateable. He had lots of little errors that added up and it really wasn't an OGM performance either. Second gold medals should be done sparingly. I don't think this cuts it. Hanyu had a big enough lead that he could stay ahead.
     
  22. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    After the heartbreak of watching Patrick skate his free, I am still sad but only on his behalf. I understand how much he wanted to bring the gold to Canada, being a perfectionist I hate it when I can't perform my best at whatever I'm doing.

    On the bright side, his competition is now over. I am hoping he can take some time and relax. Maybe go and watch Tessa & Scott in the free tomorrow (Monday), cheer on the Canadian ladies when they compete later this week, maybe just hang with Scott when they are both done. Take in a few events together, savor the feeling of being at their second Olympics. Take lots of photos, maybe "journal" a bit. I wish him the opportunity to experience the games now that his "job" is finished.

    I am thrilled he has two Olympic medals -- TWINS! Sending out nothing but good feelings and love to our PChiddy!!
     
  23. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    So is he retiring or not? I am so hopeful that he sticks around. I haven't had enough of PChiddy yet.
     
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  24. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    I hope he sticks it out for another couple of years. He's so young and such a wonderful skater that he can still win more competitions and retire on a high note....not that bringing home a silver is "low", but just for his sake (and the sake of his fans who love his skating). I'm selfish, I don't went him to retire yet :(.
     
  25. coppertop1

    coppertop1 Active Member

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    Maybe be should take the year off, and refresh himself, away from the critics. I think maybe he wanted the gold a bit too bad, instead of letting it happen. Still, two silvers. Good on you, Patrick! Anyone who bashes him doesn't get quality.

    I don't want him to retire either :(
     
  26. fscric

    fscric Active Member

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    I am confused, why are we asked to get over it? Can't we Patrick fans feel sad for him? As for the petition comment, I can't believe someone would take it literally, I was taking a jab at those who have harassed Patrick over the last few years, who have said repeatedly that a programme with multiple falls shouldn't win a competition regardless of how the others skated but have now kept silent when it's not Patrick who fell and won, my anger is directed toward those double-standard, hypocritical so called figure skating fans.

    As for his future, I am of the opinion that Patrick should take a break and pursue his education which has been put on hold for too long, explore his other interests and enjoy life for a while. If he felt like returning to competition, he would do so, otherwise, there's no point returning unless he wants to be another Takahashi.
     
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  27. puglover

    puglover Active Member

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    Patrick should obviously do what he wants and nothing else should matter. I think he should take a bit of time and figure out his feelings. If he can leave, looking at his whole body of work since childhood, know he has made a tremendous contribution to the sport, and feel good about moving on then that is what he should do. It can be hard to move on after a disappointment and if that is going to follow him, then I hope he comes back without the pressure of the last four years and leaves on a high. JMHO.
     
  28. coppertop1

    coppertop1 Active Member

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    Many people who criticize Patrick have said shows the flaws of this system and he wouldn't win under the old 6.0 system. In truth, Patrick does the opposite: This system rewards the quality of his skating. I remember being surprised that he added the quad, but I was happy he did it as a challenge for himself and not to silence the critics. Taking a break might be what Patrick needs. He's so hard on himself because he's a perfectionist. I'm sure he'd love a do-over of his skate, as would most of the men.
     
  29. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    Critics also forget that compulsory figures was once part of the "old" 6.0 system. Yeah, Patrick would really suck at figures...
     
  30. shutterbug

    shutterbug Well-Known Member

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    Lovely photo of Patrick with his medal

    Count me among those who would like Patrick to continue as an amature for another couple of seasons. IMHO, he's just starting to scratch the surface of what he can do artistically, and skating in shows won't offer the same opportunity to create memorable programs. But, if he chooses to continue competing he has to get some technical help. I would suggest that he go back to the man who taught him the 3A and quad in the first place - Doug Leigh. Barrie is just a 4 hour drive from Detroit, and I believe Doug is only doing consuting work now, so Patrick would be able to continue most of his training at DSC and keep Kathy on as his primary coach.

    I hope spending time watching other athletes compete and hearing stories from people like moguls skier Alex Bilodeau who was routinely bested by Mikael Kingsbury in the events leading up to Sochi, or speedskater Bri Tutt who overcame horrible injuries following a training accident in late 2012, reignites his passion for competition.

    Also, to say that if Canada couldn't win a gold medal with Patrick it's never going to happen is just silly. There's no way to tell. We have two very talented youngsters coming up in Nam Nguyen and Roman Sadovsky. Lots of potential with these little guys. Roman has already been compared to a young Patrick in terms of his ice coverage. You just never know. :)