Patrick Chan sees Japan blunders as wake-up call

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Must have been because Skate Canada :bribe: sold out Chan to get Osmond on the podium, so that she can get on the judges' radar to earn two spots for Canada in London, so that they can entice Rochette back for Sochi.
  2. CantALoop

    CantALoop Well-Known Member

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    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  3. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    I think Trevor was right in a large degree. What he/she should never have done was to post the details of any personal information on a website for everyone to see. That was an unforgivable betrayal.
  4. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Ah so that is the reason for the weather on the east coast of the US.
  5. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Of course! The earthquake on the west coast was just a warning. The judges didn't heed it and the gods are VERY unhappy.;)
  6. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    I thought we all knew about Patrick dating Kathy Johnson's daughter long before this article. I don't see anything new from this article that we don't already know except the tidbit:

  7. seabm7

    seabm7 Member

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    I don't think so. Most of us already knew Chan was dating his coach's daughter. What "trevor" said was of something on the personal interacton level, which could be never confirmed by anyone and should not have been appeared around here.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  8. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    Is that right? Do you know this?

  9. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    I meant the 'personal' information in that article echoed what Trevor said which is just Patrick is dating Tess which I'm pretty sure it was public information during the summer. I just don't see how this article proves the other things Trevor said was true.
  10. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    1. The fact that emotional preparation basically never happened is :eek:. Seriously, WTF?

    2. He wants to take these programs to Sochi? That's a bold pronouncement at this point in time. He really should see how they're received by the judges and fans (and how they progress and grow with him skating them) before he decides that he'll skate these in February 2014.

    3. Maybe Patrick's just...tired? A little burned out? I think he may take it a little easier this season (dumb as that sounds...what I mean is that he may intentionally be slowing down so that he doesn't completely peak before Sochi) and try to really nail it for next season.

    Or maybe his coach just has no clue what to do. I'm not sure which it is.
  11. bek

    bek Guest

    Because all of the coaches above have the experience to be head coaches? Chan's current coach may have been on his team, but lots of dancers help out with figure skaters. They doesn't make them the primary "coach" material. Its still kind of important to know how to skate.

    Kwanfan, Krall had every right to quit when Patrick demoted her. For someone with far less experience... For Patrick to say " he notes that Krall’s departure wasn’t his doing." Is more than a bit ridiculous.

    Krall is an experienced skating coach who I'm sure has plenty of students more than willing to have her as their PRIMARY coach... Who would want to have to answer to a "primary" coach that had less experience than they did?.....

    If you were demoted in favor of someone with far less experience than you, but who had personal ties to the boss in question? (And in this case Patrick made the decision to make the current head coach his head coach after he was dating his daughter. ) Well in such a circumstance if you didn't need the job, and you had plenty of other jobs available to you, where you could keep your current status? Wouldn't you say "Sayanora" And wouldn't you feel its more than a ridiculous for the former boss to act like-his actions had absolutely nothing to do with it?

    Once again its Patrick's life and Patrick's choices. Who knows maybe it will work well for him. But really he and his team shouldn't be putting the blame on the split on Krall...Most people in her position would have reacted exactly the same way.

    In fact I'm willing to be that Team Chan knew full well there was a good chance Krall would quit. But didn't want to seem to be the bad guys. There's nothing wrong with Team Chan asking her to take a secondary role. But they really shouldn't be blaming her, when she choose to say No. Or arguing that split was her not him...
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 30, 2012
  12. kirkbiggestfan

    kirkbiggestfan Well-Known Member

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    Paying all those coaches must have been crazy expensive (I even thought that the $150K figures were low). Does he get a familly discount now that he is dating the daughter? If your primary figure skating coach does not know how to figure skate better than Suzanne Bonaly or Danny Kwan, you may have a problem. To me, it was a move to save money. We have seen a lot of skaters trying to save money temporarely and escape the big name expensive coaches. It rarely works in the long-run. The 2 time world champ was complaining about his financial situation..it is sad, but he needs a jumping coach full-time.
  13. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    I think you are right in these. However I don't think Patrick is as sophisticate as how you've portrayed. Given how naive Patrick sometimes acted, he might not at all have prepared for Krall's departure. He might have just thought that Krall could somehow be willing to step back and take the lesser role in this "family affair". And Patrick's parents might be forced to go along with this first time madly in loved son.

    But who are supporting Patrick right now in Patrick's eyes and mind? The Johnson mother and daughter! Kathy Johnson might be his last tie to a "sweet dream" in his skating. Almost everyone else, at least 80% - 90% of people who loved him and supported him, are up against his decision on selecting a dance coach to be his primary coach. No wonder he felt vulnerable on ice because he knew what he is doing is not popular, laughed and teased by his haterz and saddened by his supporters. But only Johnson - I mean the "coach" Johnson - could give him 100% approval on anything everything he does at anytime in any situation. Who would Patrick go to? After all, Patrick is only 21. A 21 year old skater's mind is somehow similar to a teenager's mind in a non-skating world, I'm afraid.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  14. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Patrick better damn well get a real full time coach for next season if he wants to win Gold in Sochi. A modern dance expert has no clue about jumps and the technique needed to be successful at landing those jumps. Only a coach can point out what's wrong with his jumps right now no matter how many years Patrick has been doing triple jumps. He can't fix it himself no matter what he thinks.
  15. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    He's working with Eddie Shipstad, who is an integral member of the Krall/Colorado Springs package.

    I have no idea how this will pan out, but he's not planning on leaving Colorado Sorings.

    I don't blame Krall for firing him: it's like someone announcing to their spouse that they want an open relationship, and the spouse has every right to say that this isn't what they signed up for. My only point is that he didn't just say, time to get rid of his technical coach to go to Johnson, but that he wanted a role change with Krall strictly on the technical side, like she is with other skaters -- I want a pony, too -- and Krall said "No thanks."
  16. bek

    bek Guest

    I agree Patrick is not very sophisticated but I think it speaks volumes about him that he would openly say Krall not working with him-is something he has nothing to do with...I do agree this may be a money saving thing. He's a kid clearly though.
  17. Carolla5501

    Carolla5501 Well-Known Member

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    Different name, same song... Don Laws anyone?http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/figureskating/news/story?id=4809734

    Seems like I recall Patrick also said he was shocked that Don wasn't just happy to be associated with him when it became apparent Krall was the "head coach"

    Chan seems to think that as long as he doesn't "fire" them then "it's not my fault" LOL!

    I really don't care what he does, but someone posted the YouTube video to this year's Skate Canada... and that brought up a "link' to the 2012 Skate Canada video so... I watched them back to back. Felt like we were going the wrong way here. :(

    And as for Trevor and his "stories" I think a group "ignore" is in order. Everyone go to your CP and put him on "ignore" he's proof a little knowledge is a dangerous think and also seems slightly delusional about his "role" LOL!
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  18. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    In both cases it sounds to me that Chan felt constrained by his coaches and wanted something different out of his training. Maybe he thought that because Krall had first been in Johnson's shoes, when she was in Laws' she'd be more understanding.
  19. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    This I believe is what happened. I can't see why people would think that Patrick fired Krall or Krall fired Patrick. Neither fired each other. It's like two persons embarking on the same journey for quite time coming across a juncture. A felt that juncture 1 is the appropriate direction to take whilst B felt juncture 2 is the way. They can't agree..... so they decide to walk separate directions. There have been many coach-student spllits but it seems some splits are more scrutinised eg. like Patrick's.
    If Patrick felt that other juncture is the direction to take, let him. We all make decisions rightly or wrongly. Only time will tell. The journey is not over and another juncture may appear.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  20. ref

    ref New Member

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    It's not just the jumps. Someone who has never skated in a high performance capacity nor coached in it has no idea how to support a skater through international competition and deal with all of the other stuff that goes on behind the scenes.
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  21. jdonavan

    jdonavan Member

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    Very True...from what I have read and heard at conferences, Krall had a very well planned out system for all competitions down to what she and Patrick would do while waiting after the 6 minute warm up. She had plans for meals, traveling, exercise, sight seeing... I cannot believe he is adjusted to the change of not having that now. I wish him the best as his programs are a step up from last season.
    bardtoob and (deleted member) like this.
  22. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    Why don't you ask the forum to delete those posts?:confused:
  23. Carolla5501

    Carolla5501 Well-Known Member

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    I figure if the moderators thought Trevor was out of line they would have dealt with him. And honestly, the "gossip" and "I know something you don't know" posts are pretty common here. It would be a full time job to cut down on that type of "trash" post LOL!

    But "responding" to him is 'feeding the troll' What people like that HATE is to be ignored so they don't feel important... So my general rule is if someone thinks that "telling secrets" (or more likely "Making up gossip") is a good posting style then "off they go" That way I don't have to read their trash.
  24. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    I watched his La Boheme again. I found his arm movements were much softer, and he's more emotionally expressive than before. Maybe it's worth it. And hope his effort will finally pay off.
  25. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    How do you know that was just hate or complete made-up claims, or a desperate attempt warning?! You don't know either way. But everybody reads even if they don't respond. Gossip spreads fast. Everyone would come up with his or her own conclusion on whether they were correct, partially correct, or completely non-sense. I'm sure hoestly in your mind, you can't kill something completely just because it's "insider addition" which you don't know. In any case, those "insider additions" were the info which might be correct, partially correct, or totally insanely wrong but we as outsiders should never ever have known. It was a disgusting betrayal by Trevor. The behavior as this should be condemned to prevent further leaking.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  26. Carolla5501

    Carolla5501 Well-Known Member

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    "Digusting betrayal" Or "things I made up" You are assuming he is telling the truth? I don't give trash talkers that much credit LOL! Plus if you don't read the "trash" then "outsiders' won't know. So ignore the troll LOL!

    I read his first "trash" on "how much he paid" and thought "yeah right", put him on ignore and saw nothing else. Participating and passing it on makes any of us just a guilty as the OP IMHO.
  27. Former Lurve Goddess

    Former Lurve Goddess Active Member

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  28. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    Good for you! Admire your will power! ....Just wondering in general how many posts, not just from this poster, you have pretended were not existing?;)
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
  29. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    :lol: :) The actual world is continuing at least for the time being, but the weather is certainly drastically changing!

    Yes, it appears that the World of Patrick Chan, according to ISU judges may be ending, or just taking a different turn. Plus Patrick like anyone else is growing and changing (and has fallen in love) and all things come to an end eventually, and things are always changing. ;)

    Two issues re the latest posted article:

    1. Patrick is thinking of keeping these same programs for two seasons! I mean they are both wonderful programs for him to continue to explore in order to continue strengthening his artistic expression, but I would suggest his keeping only one of the programs and changing at least one of the programs for the Olympic season. Not that he's going to follow anyone's suggestions (except perhaps those of Kathy Johnson). Keeping an interesting and well-constructed program is not unusual for skaters, but keeping two programs for two seasons in a row (at least these days) does not tend to happen among top skaters. I wonder how many skaters are contemplating keeping one or both of the programs they have this season for the Olympic season?

    2. Orser is quoted as saying that Patrick was so much better than everyone else. I don't think that's the case. I think the judges helped give that impression by their over-scoring of PC, particularly at competitions where Patrick made a lot of mistakes. Dai should have won at least a couple of comps over Patrick last season (particularly Worlds 2012). Sure Patrick has superior SS among top competitors, but Orser is also quoted as saying that as a result of Patrick, other guys are now "learning how to skate": I think that statement is a bit OTT too. Sure many admire Chan's deep edges and flow over the ice, and every skater could benefit by doing some figures training, but intimating that Patrick's skills have led to others "learning how to skate" is an insult. The main influence Patrick has had on his competition IMO, is the recognition that quads are absolutely essential if you want to compete for the podium. Patrick mastered quads relatively quickly and he combined them with superior SS, but that doesn't mean that other skaters' SS are so much more subpar.


    ETA:
    Re Patrick's supposed "blase" attitude re his technical skills. He's finding his way and right now he seems more focused on improving his artistry. He's won so often that I think it may have grown a bit tiresome for him to constantly win. I think Patrick will enjoy for a change feeling like he's competing with the other guys and not so far up in the stratosphere from them where he can't ever lose. Perhaps in the end, it will give him a bit more hunger and motivation. As it is right now, he is obviously more focused on achieving praise instead of criticism re his musicality and artistic skills.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
  30. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Actually last year/this year we read that skaters like Dai/Hanyu/ Fernandez were all talking about wanting to improve their skating skills to compete with Patrick. Hanyu and Fernandez work with Tracy Wilson on their stroking and I recall that Dai went to Lambiel(? not sure about who but I think it was Lambiel) to do the same.
    And they have done so to their credit. No one says they had bad skating skills but Patrick's SS are a thing of beauty and he has been called a skater's skater. Other skaters acknowledge this and have improved and more power to them.

    If Patrick wants to win he is going to have to play catch up in some ways.

    Agree with you about the two programs - one being carried over would be fine but hopefully not both.
  31. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Brian Joubert has said that he will likely keep his LP next season, though it's still early in the season so who knows. I wouldn't be surprised to see Brezina and Fernandez keep a program for next year, both have a history of doing so.

    I can't think of anyone keeping both programs, though, and it strikes me as a bad idea.

    BTW, Chan started doing quads at 19 and became relatively consistent around the time he turned 20. That doesn't seem that young to me, though I agree that having a skater of his level incorporate quads into both programs has been conducive to persuading others to try them.
  32. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Sure Emdee :) I do give Patrick credit where credit is due re his SS, but I think Orser's quotes were a bit of "exaggerations." No matter, it is good to see Patrick so focused on improving his artistic skills, which definitely benefits him and the sport. I think what Dai and Abbott showed last season with their impressive artistry and well-choreographed programs has also been inspirational to the entire men's field, including Patrick.

    Re keeping programs for the Olympic season, I actually feel that Denis Ten's lovely and creative programs this season from The Artist soundtrack (put together with some help from Stephane Lambiel -- re that lovely interview posted in the D10 thread someone started) would be one instance where I'd say, "Yes, they are keepers for the Olympic season!" It would be wonderful to see Denis skate both these programs cleanly. The concept of having these programs tell an extended story is so intriguing. Denis is a very smooth and wonderful skater to watch, but he seems to suffer a lot from nerves in competition re his inability to cleanly land all his jumps. I wish all the guys who have this problem can overcome.
  33. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Dai is definitely one of Patrick's inspirations as is Kurt.

    Agree that Denis ten's programs are wonderful. One problem with Lori is she choreographs for what a skater is capable of doing and not what a skater can actually do. It ends up wonderful if you are able to complete the program as intended.
  34. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    I dont agree with the choice of your word "problem". How else will a skater grow if they are not challenged?
  35. carriecmu0503

    carriecmu0503 Member

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    Well after all, PCS DOES mean Patrick Chan Score!
  36. trevor

    trevor New Member

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    Halloween or not. The second week after Patrick won the Russian Cup.
    My fuss created, by telling the true story of Patrick and his new coach, is well worth it.
    For obviously, my story and its effects had come to the attention of one of the team, and his return to top form is a good reply to the fuss I created.
  37. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Trevor - its strange that you are taking personal credit for something PC did after you slammed him earlier.

    In fact the way I see it his skate at COR refuted your'fuss' !!!
  38. trevor

    trevor New Member

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    HOW DID i SLAM HIM?
    Over here, in China, and as an overseas Canadian,I am trying to popularize the sport of figure skating, which he and his dad agreed once, is also one of their mission.
    To see my and your hero in danger of falling into a hole, I can only shout 'watch out' by telling the truth and danger ahead.
    To disbelieve in a true story, is alright, you have the privilege.

    But the emails I sent to his dad you haven't seen. I had the same danger message repeated, although much more respectful and figuratively put. Although I said I have to say my frank piece, for Patrick intellegience, deserves and understands perfectly what I am aiming at - he is too valuable a talent of the skating world, to go astray or get lost in emotional/mental distractions to the most exact sports in this world. The senior guest commentator, live at the Canadian championship at Windosr, on Chinese national sports network, Yang, said Patrick has the top technique of all male skaters in the world today, just before he fell thrice after his first successful toe-quad in his long program. But he went on to say that Canada has the top quality skating coaches, in enough numbers, to make it the skating power of the world, and that China's change, from a state elite training (closed) college/camp method for national team, to a more westernized commercial mall oriented broad public skating arrangement, the traditional pyramid sectional system, should borrow from the Canadian system, of first sports for the general public, with talented members spotted, and assisted to become elite atheletes for the nation, later. All this is dependant on the economic affluence level of society, for coaches cost a bundle.
  39. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    Well, obviously. How could a couple of posts made on the 13th (or was it 12th?) page of a thread of an internet forum NOT bring around changes around Patrick Chan and change the course of his season!

    I. Don't. Even. Know. Where. To. Start :rofl::yikes::scream::wall:
  40. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Dick Button once commented that judges frown on a program being used for more than one season. I like to rewatch some of my favorite programs on you tube, but I don't care about seeing them in competition for more than one year. Personally, I think it should be disallowed or a mandatory deduction if done.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012