Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Oct 7, 2012.
My earlier post was made in hopes that you would restrain yourself.
I was surprised by the cautious, somewhat concerned comments coming from Patrick's camp in interviews right before Nice. Perhaps things were not ideal and that is why he made the change. I can only imagine the tensions that go on behind the scenes at that elite a level and the pressure everyone is under, no one more then Patrick. He has proven himself to be resilient many times before and I believe he knows what he needs. I am so amazed at the sacrifices that these young people make and wish him the best. He has indicated he is doing all he can to grow in the areas he has been criticized. I don't think you can be happy in your skating if you are not happy in your life.
Is Trevor a new screen name for ESTA? . . . Is Trevor the Chinese ESTA? Is ESTA the Russian Trevor?
Well, it shows Patrick does have personality. He will be ok.
The scary horror show plot thickens ... trevor is the writer producer director, and he also stars as Freddy; Chan and his significant other are the victims hunted down relentlessly inside the bowels of a skating rink; Kathy Johnson is the maligned technique-challenged non-credentialed primary coach who tries to save them both.
Or maybe even there's enough material in this thread for jettasian to write two or three whole episodes of CSI - Sochi ... cue up the scary music.
That is an insult to the great ESTA to even insinuate the somehow Trevor the Troll and ESTA would be one and same.
TrTTr takes themselves way too seriously.
^ Ooo ... Was not trying to offend ESTA.
Maybe Trevor is someone's ex bf or gf. lol
^^ Or, God forbid, a skating world competitor up to mischief. Or, maybe even the infamous Freddy Krueger himself.
Nah. This screen would've come up before trevor's first post appeared. (Note, as James Rolfe did in his beloved (by nerds under 35) review of Nightmare on Elm Street for the NES, that the trademark marco appears next to Freddy's name.)
Unwittingly, falling_dance, your "Othello" quote (a kind of pop culture neologasmic adaptation) makes me think of Chan as Othello, and Sam Brown's Hamlet as jettasian or god forbid, trevor, leading the charge against Chan critics, Nice booers, and sundry other innocent bystanders...
Yes, I think Chan will be fine, even without a full-time technical coach. If he thinks he needs to bring one on board before the end of the season, no problema. It's true that coaches provide athletes with invaluable support in many ways, especially during training sessions, but in the long run, it's up to the competitor to persevere alone on the field of battle.
Maybe Frank Carroll could have provided Kwan with a few soothing words or sharp commands before she went out to skate her fp at 2002 Olympics, but in the long run she was still the one who ultimately needed to calm her nerves and steady herself.
Well, at least neither man is John Wilkes Booth in your scenario.
trevor, does this mean Patrick Chan likes tacos for sure?
Well of course. I never said he won, but this seems to be just another early season Chan performance. Nothing to worry about, but I hope that beyond his insane skills (they were clearly obvious five years ago, and I applauded them, so I'm not a hater). I just don't understand why placing last when he clearly was off, whether it was his typical performance, jet lag, emotional issues, whatever is a big deal. He'll clean up enough to fall only a couple of times and win his GPs.
And for people to call me an idiot is uncalled for. I am not. I am most assuredly not. Keep it klassy, kc.
I remember when great skaters didn't fall. Certainly not like Chan does.
Which great skaters do you refer to? And what exactly is your point in making this statement?
I also miss the days when falls did not occur. When were falls introduced into skating again? Was it the '06-'07 season, or '08-'09??
Peter I believe quite correctly you are on the spot. The World champions in 1906/07 did not fall. You are quite the history maven. Kudos.
Yeah, it must of been '07. Certainly, no great champion has ever fallen before then. For example, the 1992 Olympics in the Ladies competition, did anyone even two foot a jump?
I first read this to mean 1906/7/8/9 and found that
Can you remember Plushenko or Yags falling 3 or 4 times in competition in as many events as Chan does? NO. For someone with his skills he should not be falling as much as he does.
No, I certainly can't. And they both had the same very difficult transitions into the jumps as Chan does.
If Chan has difficulty executing his elements because the rest of the program is too difficult, perhaps he should consider fewer/easier transitions as well. It's not as though the only options for a skater are either to have a program with non-stop transitions or to skate something completely empty and void of any meaningful choreography. I'd even argue that sometimes it's better to pay a bit less attention to the TR in order to better express the music.
I definitely agree that so much falling should be untenable. But Chan fans and apologists will cite his above average SS and CoP as the reason he has prevailed with falls. I say pish posh kibosh! Part of it is the SS, part of it is the skating politics, part of it is the wacky judging system, and part of it is once you are anointed by the judges, you are given lots of leeway to prove and re-prove their faith in you.
It may ultimately be different for Chan this season in how the judges will view him if he continues to fall. However, once again, his tendency the last several seasons has been to make mistakes early and clean up his act by Canadian Nationals. Of course last season, he didn't skate cleanly at Worlds and still prevailed. That was poor judgment on the judges part. But of course, these days its pretty much a crap shoot, and the men's field in general is crazy deep. All the skaters can and should do is skate their absolute best and make it as difficult for the judges as they possibly can. The problem for the sport, IMO, has been the ISU not putting their foot down re the over-scoring of Chan early in the season (the last couple of seasons) when he faltered. I think the resulting fallout has been detrimental to the sport as well as unhelpful for Chan in the long run.
You could be right, Zemgirl. However, I would be disappointed if he chose to do fewer/easier transitions because even if you take the jumps away from Chan's programs, there's still a lot of interesting stuff left to see and admire. But I am well aware that perceptions differ as to what makes a figure skating program really great.
aftershocks, somehow I knew you would react to my post. Love Chan or hate Chan, you just can't ignore him.
Personally, I would much rather see skaters attempting more difficult content and falling on occasion, especially early in the season when the programs are new, than watered down programs. These are athletic competitions after all, and it's far more exciting when the skaters are pushing themselves to the limit. Maybe playing it safe could lead to cleaner, albeit more boring programs (though the "cleaner" part is not guaranteed...), but the risk of attempting a complex, more difficult program is well worth it in exchange for those rare skates when the difficulty and execution manage to work together. If you want beautiful, clean skating on a regular basis, limit yourself to ice shows (though even there clean skates aren't guaranteed to occur... )
It wouldn't be unprecedented - he's certainly tinkered with some jump entrances over the years. Like I wrote, I'm not advocating that he skate empty programs, but there's plenty of interesting choreo that a skater can do even without packing a program with transitions. Also, I'd rather see a jump performed well than a difficult transition into a badly performed jump (same goes for other elements, but obviously this is more of an issue with jumps).
Sometimes I feel like transitions are over-emphasized; there are situations where I'd rather see a skater just hold a position or an edge, or do something that might not be difficult but that would fit the music well. The skaters are so busy packing in the content and at times it feels like it's at the expense of the artistic aspects of the performance. Skating is a sport, but it is also an art, and I don't want to see one at the expense of the other.
Wow. You people are OLD!!
I think I read one post here at FSU that Chan might have better artistry than Plushenko. I will search for that one post and if I find it, I will post a link to it.
Transitions can express the music too.
Heh, heh, actually I was responding to Jammers' posts, and hadn't even seen yours yet when I posted, VarBar.
As far as iggin' PC, no way to do that when TPTB enjoy diggin' him so much, not to mention the scary adoration of jettasian, trevor and the entire Chan gang, plus the devotion and admiration of various and sundry more sane Chan fans and innocent bystanders. As well, how can anyone ig PC SS -- just too uber fab in and of themselves, eh?
Chan's a good guy and he can skate (understatement). He's so undeserving of all this "CSI treatment." Maybe he can have a post skating career tho' in the horror movie genre ... after all the "scary" experiences his career in skating will have given him.