Patrick Chan sees Japan blunders as wake-up call

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't it Kathy Johnson sitting with Chan in the K&C at WTT?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkP9qN_SDlI&feature=player_detailpage#t=317s

    Or she's allowed to just sit in the Kiss and Cry but never stand at the boards?:confused:
     
  2. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    I too am concerned about his lack of a tech coach - had a really bad feeling when Krall initially left the team. Krall was critical to Patrick's jump improvement and gaining consistency on the quad. In my view his progress on jumps these past few seasons was remarkable, not only landing quads a good proportion of the time but also managing to fix his 3A problems.

    To me Krall was an example of 'when something is working, don't fix it'. I don't see how Patrick can maintain his jump technique without Krall or another equally strong tech coach. Its not something he can just do on his own and maintain. When Kwan went coachless, she wasn't doing quads and 3As - and it still shook her up.

    It's true that Patrick is usually weak at the beginning of the season and it's true that working with new choreographers and skating two new programs for the first time will be a challenge. Nonetheless, I still fear that this season may be a disappointment for a Patrick. Of course, I do hope I'm wrong.

    OTOH, if he's going to have a less-than-stellar season, better this season than in 2013/14. In fact, it might actually boost his Olympic prospects. Not going in to the Olympics as World Champion would take all the pressure off. Especially since Patrick's timeline may be a year or so off in terms of peaking at the OG.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012
  3. PCFan

    PCFan New Member

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    My concern with the coaching situation, is who's there in the heat of competition should Patrick have a similar meltdown in the SP; to help him make the necessary technical adjustments to right the ship for the LP? He needs a technical coach, and I'm not just saying this because of his JO performance.
     
  4. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Years ago I worked for a company where another person with the same name started working there so they decided to call me Trevor. However I am not the Trevor who is posting here.

    I think trevor needs to be very careful about what they are posting. That stuff is way too personal and not appropriate. A person who really knows the family would not be posting that stuff.
     
  5. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    :D

    I agree. I don't think it's right to post someone's personal life on a public forum without consent. Trevor, if you are truly concerned, this is not the way to express your concerns.
     
  6. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    I think "Trevor" is spinning us all a tale that they would like us to believe. This old lady ain't buying the Kool-Aid.

    As for his "bad" start -- I'm going to have to agree with those who are listing things like:
    - he usually has a slow/bad start to the season
    - he's learning not one but TWO new programs
    - he's working with different people in more than one area of his "job"

    Regarding Krall and his technique on the quad and 3A, I have a question. Once you "learn" how to do something correctly, do you still need someone to tell you how to do it? I ask cause it seems to be that Kristy did a great job in getting Patrick to perform those jumps the way they should be done. Presuming that he now knows "how" to do them correctly, would he still really need her to continue "telling" him how to do the jumps? Just a curious thought that travelled from one side of my brain to the other.

    Patrick had a rough outing. I am not panicking. I believe he will get better as the season goes on. Will he win another WC? That remains to be seen but I believe he is still the skater to beat for the top of the podium (no offense to Dai fans).
     
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  7. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Girlfriend is a first for you???? In Peggy Fleming's autobiography, she shares that her mother caught her staring at her boyfriend's pic during the Olympics and promptly ripped it into shreds. Love relationships can cause problems and distractions in anyone's life (especially if things aren't going well). Elite athletes are best when they have tunnel vision and no outside distractions.
    Most unfortunately have to choose the life of a monk in many areas of their lives.
     
  8. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Since they're working with aches and pains through training, and there is huge pressure not to skip it or to admit to injury publicly, athletes and dancers especially need to be sure that they aren't compromising their technique through all of the compensations they do to get through the day. They need someone to watch them and point out when they're heading in the wrong direction. Dancers have mirrors, and can pick some of this out themselves, if they are astute. Skaters could be taped, but it's not the same instant feedback as the mirror, and the micro-adjustments might not be discernible to them.

    Opera singers and musicians check in with their teachers for technical check-ups, but while they, too, can hurt themselves by repeating poor technique and have chronic pain, there usually isn't anything as jarring in singing or playing an instrument as there is in landing a jump.
     
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  9. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    Are we really going to take Trevor's story at face value? I'm not saying Trevor made this up but I'm also a bit skeptical on some of the details like Karen Chan being scolded into submission by Kathy Johnson...
     
  10. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    There is more to a program than jumps.:rolleyes:
     
  11. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I would rather watch Patrick Chan fly across the ice on his ass then watch most of the men in the world skate on their blades.

    He's truly a very gifted skater who had one bad free skate at some two-bit competition. It was just his warm up for the Grand Prix. He knows what to do and what not to do.

    If he gets 5th or 6th in his Grand Prix competitions and fails to make the finals; I may start to think something is up, but it's really way to early to be worrying.
     
  12. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    To those asking if once you "learn" a jump, do you need someone to tell you how to do it: YES! Otherwise no one would need a coach at all once they learn how to do a jump. A coach doesn't tell you how to do a jump, he/she constantly refines your technique and makes sure you're doing it correctly.

    A triple has an incredibly small margin for error, a quad even less so. You need someone watching over you to see the tiny technicalities you can't feel for yourself. You're never going to be 100% on a triple or a quad, even if you've been doing them for years. That's why a clean program is such a big deal and why you need a coach looking over you.
     
  13. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    All professional athletes have coaches ... Baseball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer, rugby, tennis, etc, etc. Professional skaters are no different.

    Specifically, skaters need coaches because if there is not something to improve then there is something new to learn. Also, skaters, even the great Patrick Chan, have some bad habits that need to be kept under control. For example, a skater might rush checking his landings, might not step into his axels enough, etc. that results in bad execution, including falls. But only a trained professional can identify the problem, know the right words to describe the problem, and be able to prescribe a solution.

    Furthermore, no athlete is above being reminded of his basics, even as a master, because they are one's best guide when one is nervous or under pressure.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012
  14. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is a first for me. I really am not interested in skaters' love lives. If a skater announces their marriage or engagement (i.e. Michelle) I will congratulate them on line but other than that I really don't have any interest in what goes on in a skater's personal love life.
     
  15. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    Another YES to the question. One day you have a headache, another- overtired muscles, another- bad mood... The body constantly wants to compensate and find an easier way, not the right way; it feels different on the inside than it is on the outside. The outside eye is incredibly important. The more experienced you are, the more you can control yourself; but with "tight rope" elements , when the margin of error is miniscule, it takes an outside eye to correct mistakes.
    But for myself, as somebody who have not been Patrick's fan, because his technique for me was always ahead of his interpretation, his quest for more artistry is wonderful. I admire him trying new choreographers, trying to be the most complete skater he can be. I think he'll probably need a technical coach, but he is going a long way to make me a fan ( not significant for him, maybe, but significant for me:))
     
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    :huh:

    None other male skaters have skating skills anywhere near as good.

    His edges are amazing but most importantly he generates speed extremely easily, there are hardly any cross-overs in his programs, etc.

    Choreo is his weakest PCS point IMO but he does skate to the music, his timing is usually spot on.

    Oh FFS. :rolleyes: Do you know any other skaters who are capable of executing steps pretty much for most of the length of the rink before a quad toe? Pretty much every single element in his programs is preceded by transitions. Do you know any other skater you can say that about?

    Yeah, he can't. It happens by magic. :rolleyes:

    First you establish the GOE and then you deduct.

    So if there are enough positive features for a +3, then the maximum that could be theoretically deducted is -6.

    Yes.
     
  17. trevor

    trevor New Member

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    Scolding may be seen as seriously criticizing, as Karen objected to paring of her coaches' daughter with her son. She also worries that, according to Chinese tradition, that the girl's reputation, may be jeopardized with long intimate relationship with her own son, too. But western standards are what we all are abiding now,as we reminded her. In fear of meddling in family affairs (but PC is such a public figure, loved and fanned by thousands of figure skating lovers all over, and we are all wishing him well, to perform better, longer atheletic life, especially from his own native tribe), I repectfully suggest';
    1. That the two lovebirds get married.
    2.Settle down to stable married life
    3.Restart vigorous technical training, new additonal coaches etc. for Patrick
    4. Wish that Patrick can regain his excellence, and compete in form for the Sochi Olympics.
     
  18. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    He's barely 21 and you want him to get married! :scream: :yikes:
     
  19. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Trevor - you are saying too much. I would be careful.
     
  20. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Any chance that Trevor could be a jealous, obsessed, crazed uber-fan? ;)

    Ahm jes' sayin'...
     
  21. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure if this 4 fall performance is really all that different than all the other 2,3,or 4 fall performances of Chan's.
     
  22. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes. What you're doing is starting a rumor, and not a particularly good one. And if you have such intimate knowledge about Patrick and his life, you are betraying a confidence.
     
  23. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that anyone who really knows Patrick or his family would be posting this stuff. Or anyone who knows any high level skater would post personal details. They would be more respectful.

    Ah we can just call him Trevor the Troll!
     
  24. fscric

    fscric Active Member

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    Yeah! I have a hard time believing this is someone who has Patrick's best interest in heart with this kind of posts.
     
  25. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't there an article describing how Patrick would want to include quad sal and quad flip into his program this year? If the jumps are eluding him due to coaching issues I doubt he would plan harder quads before he finds his quad mojo back.

    I also seriously doubt Skate Canada would let Patrick self implode like this without giving him coaching selection advice if the coaching situation is not working out for him. Patrick Chan is probably the best bet for Gold in Sochi (even more so than V/M IMO).

    As for Mr Trevor

    Speaking from first hand experience of being raised in a Chinese Canadian family, no no no no and no.
     
  26. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Yep AussieWilly. Trevor's a Troll! Let's keep personal life personal. The skaters do not owe us explanations on how they should run their private lives. They make their decisions they live the consequences of their decisions. Personally, I wish ALL skaters well whether their skating is or is not my favourite. Without all these dedicated skaters, we won't be able to watch and enjoy figure skating and talk about it.:)
     
  27. 5Ali3

    5Ali3 Active Member

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    FWIW, there were a few details in trevor's initial post that instantaneously rendered his story unbelievable for me. I claim no insider knowledge of the present situation, and while I've met Patrick, most of what I know about him is secondhand from other skaters. However, I've heard a few things over and over, from enough different people, over a sufficient period of time, that I believe there is very little chance trevor's story is accurate in its details.

    While I have been surprised at how many posters are willing to take trevor's story at face value, I've also been surprised at how many posters assume that Skate Canada would "step in" if they felt Patrick's coaching situation wasn't under "control." Skate Canada's "control" over skaters like Chan and Virtue/Moir extends only as far as refusing to name them to World/Olympic teams... and Skate Canada has much more to lose than Chan or Virtue/Moir in that scenario. Skate Canada can - and likely will - refuse to credential Johnson for Canadian Nationals, and I believe their current rules prohibit Johnson's name from being submitted for credentialing at Worlds as a primary coach, but they have little to no leverage to control his day-to-day training. They know that. And Chan knows that.
     
  28. Glacier cat

    Glacier cat New Member

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    Yes. Patrick is already mature, adult man. I am sure Patrick knows what he needs. Trevor may think he is still little boy who has to listen to his mom and dad :eek:
     
  29. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Funny that not a long while ago some of Chan's haterz were shedding crocodile tears over Chan having NO life outside of figure skating and being the victim of his mom who is a control freak and only wants to see him training, training and training.:lol:

    There are tons of examples of elite athletes who were most successful in their careers while dating and spending most if not all of their time outside of their sport with their gf's or bf's and living less than the life of a monk.

    I don't want Chan to get rid of his girlfriend but just get himself a technical coach coz I do believe he would need one. JMHO.
     
  30. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

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    There is only one explanation! It is always damsel problem. lol