Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Oct 7, 2012.
^^ Do you mean Chan wasn't choosing to do a 3/3 in the sp? If so, ITA, I think he'd planned a 4/3.
The weather is so unpredictable, and ice is so slippery. ISU judges went a bit wonkers in their rush to over-score Hanyu, who is definitely a phenom, but I wish they would not overdo in their rush to bow down when a young skater skates like that. It was wonderful, but not perfect, and obviously Hanyu's fp shows that he still needs to develop endurance and mental strength as well. Hanyu has got something, -- and he's a threat for gold in Sochi if the sp marks at SA are any barometer -- but Hanyu still doesn't have Dai's artistry and charisma; neither does Kozuka.
Chan is looking very good with how he has focused more on his artistry and musicality. His programs are lovely and his SS everpresent. He still has the potential to bring everything all together at Worlds and Olympics and land on top of the podium. But it is just simply refreshing to see the judges come at least a bit back down to earth re Chan's scoring when he makes mistakes (Maybe Nice Worlds was "a wake-up call" for the judges ). Fernandez (under Orser) is improving with his presentation and his programs are well constructed this season, but I think Chan can win SC if he lands his quads in the fp.
It was meant to be a 4t/3t but he popped the quad into a triple. I wondered why there was so much air in that first jump and thought "that wasn't a quad, was it?" and sure enough, I see that it wasn't. Kudos for keeping it as a combo and getting the points rather than falling on a quad and trying to do the combo later.
What a stunning short program.
Well, Chan certainly covered extremely well that the 3t was a popped 4t, thus my question, which wouldn't have been asked had I known he was attempting a 4t.
I think Chan is going through the opposite of what happens when skaters try to include the quad in the program and lose their artistry - trying to expand his artistic range and losing the jumps. However, he is being awfully nonchalant about it - for example, in his CTV interview he said that Javier deserved the win, but in his (Patrick's mind), he won also. He seemed not to care one bit about all his mistakes. He did note that 80% of the people in his world opposed his decision to leave Krall and work with Johnson, but he felt it was the right thing for him to do. In his interview with Debbie Wilkes he again emphasized that he was happy with his performances this week. It's more than a bit disconcerting for a World Champion and aspiring Olympic Champion to speak this way. The CTV commentators were not impressed with him and expressed a lot of concern about his second poor outing of the season. My prediction is that Patrick's jumps will remain a problem throughout the season. I love what he is doing artistically and he did say that he was pursuing 'greatness' as a skater, which could include focusing on artistry and expression for a season. But his apparent 'could care less' attitude is troubling. I wonder how many poor outings he needs to have to realize that he might be in trouble if he doesn't get his jumps back?
I don't see it as a "couldn't care less" attitude: I hear him saying that he's trying to focus on different aspects of his skating, and that he was pleased with how he improved on those, in particular how he felt comfortable in his programs, which he didn't in Japan.
Most skaters try to add a little bit at a time -- it happens to dancers, too -- but they won't risk regression, like Rochette did when she decided to fix the flutz, to invest in an overall improvement. Chan is taking that risk. It's really up to him.
I think its great that Chan wants to improve artistically especially since PCS certainly weren't his problem.. HOWEVER, what I'm shocked about his non bliaseness about his jumps..
My thing is if there's one thing Chan need to absolutely improve it was his jumps! Or at least his consistency on his jumps... That's what was making him such a controversial winner.....So I'm shocked that he thinks that not having a technical coach full time is the way to go... It just strikes me as someone who perhaps doesn't even understand their own weakness..
It doesn't help of course that the judges clearly have sent him the message that landing the jumps don't matter. But I think they are changing that message. Their's been too much booing. So my thing with Patrick, is the man doesn't even understand his own weaknesses.
I would think its a skater's job to improve all areas of their skating... I'm sorry but Patrick is no Plushenko or Yagudin who had the jumps down so strong that he can do them in his sleep.
I think my biggest concern for him is the mixing of business and pleasure.. (I won't comment on having a girlfriend) nothing wrong with that. But I would think he should be careful about making the girlfriend's Mom his head coach...Especially when she doesn't have that kind of experience at that level. Those kind of personal attachments can make it difficult to end a coaching relationship that's not working. Now it would be one thing if he fell for his head coach's daughter after it being his coach..Of if the girlfriend's mom was clearly experienced at the job! (Even then though) But.....In this situation firing your girl's mom?? I actually feel a bit sorry for the kid, I can't help feeling he's getting some bad advise-somewhere... Maybe then again he has his personal reasons- they are his personal reasons and he's perfectly fine if his decisions cost him titles.
Great skater though hopefully it will all work out.
I know that Chan only won the silver medal at Skate Canada. But somewhere inside of me I have this feeling that the world is not ending. Probably not the case though. But I still hear that voice...
Oh, I agree. If he's making a mistake, he's entitled to do so. People often have to make their own mistakes to learn from them. It's the seeming indifference/nonchalance that is disconcerting. It's entirely possible that Patrick knew his jumps might decline in the short term and chose to take that risk. And that he is feeling rather defensive about the criticisms currently being levied at him. On the other hand, he might be slightly deluded into thinking that he can recover his technique easily, if it proves to remain diminished throughout the season. In a previous interview he said he wasn't worried about his jumps since he "had been doing them since he was 13". That's just dumb, although again maybe he's being defensive.
The world could end at any minute Peter G. Just hasn't done so yet.
I remember Patrick saying something to the effect of "If I don't win, the world won't end". Certainly, it's a refreshing, balanced and realistic attitude.
But I don't know how far balanced and realistic go towards winning an OGM. That commonly requires a single-minded focus. When Yagudin said that winning the OGM was his destiny, it didn't mean that the world would end if he didn't. But it did mean he absolutely envisioned himself as the OGM and did not fathom a world in which that didn't happen. Of course, that view can be delusional as well. Remember when Mike Weiss went to a hypnotherapist and rented a hummer to celebrate earning the world title?
It'll be interesting to see what happens to Chan over the season. I've thought it might be better for him to not go into the 2014 Olympics undefeated over the course of three years. In fact, I've thought it might be better for him to lose the title this years. Perhaps team Chan has a similar view, and it's actually part of their strategy - getting competitors to underestimate their opponent, contrary to popular wisdom.
Yagudin did fathom a world in which he was not an Olympic champion. He told his coach in the fall of 2001 - just five months before Salt Lake City - that he wanted to quit competitive skating. He had lost all his major titles by that time and was just coming out of a very painful defeat to a couple other skaters at the Goodwill Games. He felt that nothing was working for him anymore and that he would not be able to take any medal of any color at Olys would he go there, much less win the gold. I think that Yagudin saying the OGM was his destiny was just part of the verbal duel between him and Plushenko and a reply to Mishin saying something like "Evgeni will easily beat Alexei in SLC." Of course, the world wouldn't have ended for Yagudin had he finished off the top of the Olympic podium.
I think it's good that Chan is losing when he doesn't skate well (enough). Sometimes he makes mistakes but still deserves to win over cleaner skates, not this time. It will likely light a fire within him, force him to focus on the technical side of things, and take some heat off the lead that he seemingly had over everyone else.
Sooner or later people are going to realize he really is THAT much better.
Dont forget the timeline of his words. Yagudin did say he wanted to quit after that disastrous Good Will Game. But actually his technique was there, his quad was the best of the night before he hit the board according to Boitano. He just needed time to understand thats an accident. And then he said that winning the OGM was his destiny right before the Olympics when he was really ready in every aspect. He and Plushenko had the equal jumping arsenal by that time, and Yagudin was overall a more complete skater. So theres a reason he said so.
I feel Patrick Chan is experiencing the same thing as Yagudin during 2000-2001 season. Already had/has multiple world titles, not as motivated as those craving for titles, focusing more on programs now than on jumps, had/has the disadvantage of having a non-technical coach. Chan actually did no worse than last year so far except for the JO. He lost the SC title because Fernandes did much better this year. He almost beat Chan last year remember?
However if Chan's determined to work on his artistic side, kudos for that. I respect him for not simply choosing an easier way to win. But I am not sure if he's a natural talented jumper like Yagudin. Yagudin's jumping ability was described by Philip Hersh as "as rare as a diamond in the garbage". That's why when he started working more on his jumps before the 2002 Olympics, Plushenko's advantage on jumps during 2001 season just... gone. I still think if Chan's on, nobody could beat him, but finally he will need to work with a technical coach. Right now, he still has time to explore whatever he wants to.
For Canada’s Patrick Chan, breaking up is easy to do: DiManno
Patrick Chan is in love.
The object of his affection — and it’s mutual — is his new coach’s daughter....
Chan makes no apologies for either coach or girlfriend.
“I went with Kathy before I met Tess,” he told the Star on Sunday. “It’s not like Kathy planned it out that way, like she wanted me to start dating her daughter. People falling in love with each other is uncontrollable. Honestly, the minute I get on the ice, that’s a separate part of my life.”
Thanks for the link!
Is Patrick planning to have only his girlfriend's mother who doesn't know how to skate herself by his side to go into Sochi?
His girlfriend's mother was part of his team before he started dating her daughter, and as it was pointed out in the article, he didn't fire Krall: she fired him. Complaining about relationships is like having a problem with Zhulin being Navka's coach, Moskvin being Moskvina/Mishin's coach, or Vasiliev being Totmianina/Marinin's coach.
And who doesn't know these?
This. Superchan is defeated on home turf, and Gracie Gold finishes off the podium in the same competition. A sure sign of the Apocalypse.
Must have been because Skate Canada sold out Chan to get Osmond on the podium, so that she can get on the judges' radar to earn two spots for Canada in London, so that they can entice Rochette back for Sochi.
Wow, "trevor" was mostly right then?
This is sure going to turn out well.
I think Trevor was right in a large degree. What he/she should never have done was to post the details of any personal information on a website for everyone to see. That was an unforgivable betrayal.
Ah so that is the reason for the weather on the east coast of the US.
Of course! The earthquake on the west coast was just a warning. The judges didn't heed it and the gods are VERY unhappy.
I thought we all knew about Patrick dating Kathy Johnson's daughter long before this article. I don't see anything new from this article that we don't already know except the tidbit:
I don't think so. Most of us already knew Chan was dating his coach's daughter. What "trevor" said was of something on the personal interacton level, which could be never confirmed by anyone and should not have been appeared around here.
Is that right? Do you know this?
I meant the 'personal' information in that article echoed what Trevor said which is just Patrick is dating Tess which I'm pretty sure it was public information during the summer. I just don't see how this article proves the other things Trevor said was true.
1. The fact that emotional preparation basically never happened is . Seriously, WTF?
2. He wants to take these programs to Sochi? That's a bold pronouncement at this point in time. He really should see how they're received by the judges and fans (and how they progress and grow with him skating them) before he decides that he'll skate these in February 2014.
3. Maybe Patrick's just...tired? A little burned out? I think he may take it a little easier this season (dumb as that sounds...what I mean is that he may intentionally be slowing down so that he doesn't completely peak before Sochi) and try to really nail it for next season.
Or maybe his coach just has no clue what to do. I'm not sure which it is.