Patrick Chan sees Japan blunders as wake-up call

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. Sugar

    Sugar Well-Known Member

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    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...apan-blunders-as-wake-up-call/article4595002/
    World figure skating champion Patrick Chan has insisted his blunders at the Japan Open would serve as a wake-up call as he prepares to defend his crown in the run-up to the 2014 Olympics.

    The Canadian fell four times whilst attempting a couple of quadruple toe loops and two triple jumps at the season-opening invitational event featuring three teams of two men and two women from Japan, North America and Europe.

    video
    http://youtu.be/RxA34ZU3XGk
     
  2. kylet3

    kylet3 Well-Known Member

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    This to me kind of says she's a bit of an enabler. I get that coaches need to listen but Christy kind of gave him a kick in the butt to really work on the things that he needs. I really hope this is his wake up call, but he'll have to prove me wrong come Skate Canada. I really hope he does.
     
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  3. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Seems he is still struggling to find the right balance. A kick in the butt can be a good thing but maybe not as hard as Christy kicked (because didn't we find out later last season he was miserable and contemplating quitting?). I hope he finds the right balance he needs.
     
  4. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    It's not that unusual, IMO. Chan usually makes mistakes early in the season, gets better by GPF and saves his best for the home stretch- Canadian nationals and Worlds. That seems to be his pattern.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  5. PeterG

    PeterG Hanyuflated

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    I agree. If all of the problems can be dealt with, I feel that Chan might acheive something of note in the sport.
     
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  6. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    I believe he already has; and that he will do even more in the years to come.
     
  7. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    He's got Michelle Kwan syndrome. I am not sure why he picked this season to not utilize a coach but he's basically going it alone if you ask me. I think that successful people reach a point of arrogance where they think that they can actually understand EVERYTHING. So, Chan picks a dance coach to head up his training and development in a way that is beyond her scope of expertise. I am not saying that she was the cause of the poor performance. the same could have happened under Krall (see Agnes Z's performance) however I cant say that there was much by way of humility in his decision.

    I didnt train a day in his shoes. Perhaps Krall was too over bearing... dont know. All i can say though is I hope his training is as intense as it once was or else...
     
  8. bek

    bek Guest

    Its not like the judges have shown him in most cases that landing his jumps are important...
     
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  9. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    I wouldn't be surprised to see Patrick struggle for most of the season and then pull it all together - hopefully Worlds. If his SP is anything resembling his EX from Worlds as is to be believed then he has a truly wonderful set of programs and it would be a travesty not to see them skated cleanly. I hope he's right; that this is the :kickass: he needs, but maybe a bit of a motivational struggle this season is also what he needs heading into the Olympics?
     
  10. bek

    bek Guest

    At least he's picking this year to experiment with coaches and not next. In that sense-smarter than Kwan...I think he typically has a bad outing starting out, so I'm not seeing the panic yet.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2012
  11. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

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    A while ago in an interview, Ilia K said that every athlete has his or her 'wake-up call' and he then went on to mention his. The import of what he said, as I read it and as he later chatted briefly with the Krew about it, was that it's a totally internal thing and if handled well, calls forth another level the athlete has within himself (or herself). My take it that it's also a maturity thing and an honest turning inward, at a time of failure or challenge, to see what the individual says to himself, not what others say however helpful or encouraging.

    This has very little to do with whose coach is a softy and whose is a drill major. That can I'm sure make some difference but it's more about the inner athlete - the internal drive, the internal assessment of self, and so forth. I'm glad Patrick sees this as a wake-up call - I hope he has another whole level to show us, but more importantly to show himself. Because it's more between Patrick and himself now than anything or anyone else.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
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  12. BreakfastClub

    BreakfastClub Active Member

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    :rofl:
     
  13. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    I suspect the entire season (and not just this one outing) will prove to be a wake-up call for Mr. Chan. I hope he (or someone on his team) doesn't hit the "snooze" button too many times. lol
     
  14. nubka

    nubka Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
     
  15. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    IMO, this is Patrick's best LP since the 2009 season and I really hope he can skate it to its potential this season. Love the music, love the choreography, love his skating skills, love, love, love! :cheer2::swoon:
     
  16. DaveRocks

    DaveRocks Well-Known Member

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    Wow - I've never heard that comment before. :rolleyes: Last time I checked, Chan gets -3 GOE and a 1-point deduction when he falls on a jump.

    Chan is a smart guy. He'll get the kinks worked out soon enough.
     
  17. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you on that one :)
     
  18. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    No he doesn't get -3 all the time. I've seen his falls given -2 and -1.

    Anyway, why should he NOW only have his "wake-up call"? Oh, because he actually lost when falling on his backside, as he should? :rolleyes:
     
  19. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    That would -3 after the judges have taken into consideration all other factors of the jump - difficulty of entrance, speed going in, speed of rotation, position in the air etc. These are all bullet points that affect the GOE. Then the judges subtract the three points from whatever GOE they would have given. I've seen many other skaters get -2 on a jump with a fall. Joubert especially springs to mind, some years ago, because I felt at the time as you apparently do misskarne, that he should have been given -3 outright. Then I learned how the rule of -3 for a fall on a jump actually works :p
     
  20. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    But that's wrong. It should be flat -3. No other consideration. End of story.

    Jason Brown was given -3 across the board for his two-footed 3A< in the LP at Turkey (I think one judge gave him -2). He had an okay entry, a nice air position, stuck the landing and didn't fall. But apparently, that all means jack, since it was UR. And he got hit worse for it than some of Chan's falls. How is this right?

    It should be flat -3, plus the -1 deduction, and a whack in the P/E mark as well, which NEVER happens to Chan.
     
  21. fscric

    fscric Active Member

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    It is obvious that no matter how many times the rule was explained and that examples of other skaters getting -2 or -1 for falls have been cited, only Patrick's is stuck in some people's mind as evidence of unfair judging. :rolleyes:
     
  22. bek

    bek Guest

    Its obvious that a lot of us think its ridiculous that anyone can be competitive against other top skaters when they are falling four times. Its clear that very soon there needs to be Chan rule in terms of multiple falls being more penalized. Some judge gave him a 9.5 for P/E!! 9.5 for a mistake ridden program-its ridiculous and a laughing stock.
     
  23. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    You do know what P/E is judged on, right?

    From the USFS website:

    Perhaps that judge felt that Chan did well on these criteria despite the falls.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2012
  24. DaveRocks

    DaveRocks Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, alilou, for the clarification about the -3 vs -2 vs -1 for a fall. I had forgotten about that.

    Its? its? Its? its? :confused:

    Also, how is it Patrick's fault that a judge gave him a 9.5?
     
  25. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    Doesn't matter what you think it should be :p

    Re Jason Brown - he didn't stick the landing, he 2-footed it. W/out that he probably would have fallen....plus it was under-rotated.
     
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  26. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    How old is Patrick. 20 or 21?

    It must be hard when you're an adult in the eyes of the world, but the team around you possibly treat you like a you're still a teenager. Learning from your mistakes, what you want and don't want, is all part of growing up, I guess.

    My worry though, is that Krall was the key to his jumping success, and as several posters at Golden Skate have mentioned, not having that presence means he may have lost the sense of timing needed to land the bigger jumps.
     
  27. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    But he stood up. And he did stick the landing - on 2 feet, yes, but he stood up. Yes it was UR. But he stood up. He should NOT be punished for standing up worse than a fall! No jump should ever score MORE for falling than for standing up.

    Chan will just keep zamboni-ing the ice, and the judges will keep rewarding him for it, and then doubtless people will continue to complain when fans boo the results. It's a joke.
     
  28. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    Did the judges give him the win? So what's your problem? He doesn't need the judges to show him. He knows or else he'd not bother to try any quads.

    Chan just had a poor skate, period! Other than the jumps, everything was fine. So I are not too worry. If by National, he's still struggled with his jumps, then it's time to assess whether his decision to change coach was the right decision.
     
  29. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    He lost because he had a poor skate. He won when he had a poor skate because others had poor skates as well. Does skating come down to number of falls count? :rolleyes:
     
  30. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    Because most of Chan's fall, he still managed to FULLY ROTATE his jumps.