Patrick Chan reboots in Calgary and at Detroit SC

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Mar 1, 2013.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  2. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    Oh man, couldn't you see him training in Detroit for next season. That could be TOTALLY awesome, I think. He's living with Kaitlyn and Andrew and having fun. Yeppers, having fun can relax you and allow you to train well, I would think?
  3. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    :shuffle:
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    The Princess and the Pea. :drama:
  5. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    When I first read that he was considering a move to Detroit after worlds, I wondered if he would change coaches again, but it sounds like his coach would move too.
  6. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Oh, that's what it was at Skate Canada, unfamiliar food and surroundings :rolleyes:
  7. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    Something TOLD ME to stop by
  8. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    Must one own steel-toed boots to attend this thread? Or can anyone partake?
  9. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    'You're a slut and I hate you' (said Sylvia Night). Does that answer your question? Bitch. *Lv4 bitchface at you*
  10. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Chan had better think about his coaching situation for next year. Having someone who's not even a former skater as your coach is not a good thing to have going into an Olympic year. At the very least he needs a jump coach because his jumps are getting sloppy and Kathy Johnson is not qualified to help him with that.
  11. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  12. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Perplexed? Why are Tarosova and Kovtun there?
  13. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Some of the Russian and French skaters are training at DSC before Worlds.
  14. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Is this common practice? It just strikes me as strange. Are the skaters that regularly train there given a voice in the matter (do you mind if x and x come train here before worlds?) or is it dictatorial? And is there a bi-lateral agreement with Russia that our skaters can do the same (although i can think of few reasons they would want to, except maybe Johnny lol)?
  15. feraina

    feraina Active Member

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    Well, U.S. rinks's freestyle sessions are open to everyone (qualified by level). Coaches need permission from the rink to teach for a fee. But I think it is pretty common. I remember for the 2009 World Championships in LA, the entire French team came down to San Diego to train beforehand.
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    :huh:

    Ice rinks in the US are private facilities. As long as you pay, you can use them.
  17. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    Another issue is Kathy Johnson's certification. Does she have any accreditation with Skate Canada? Has she been given any automatically by virtue of her working with Patrick? Because in Canada, you must have some sort of certification with Skate Canada to coach at a club. You technically aren't even supposed to have non-skating choreographers coaching you on the ice, like even having a ballerina come in a correct your posture. Doesn't mean it's not done, but by the actual rules it's not supposed to be. Now, I think it's a bit absurd but those are the rules. In the US, it's much much easier in that regard. That's probably why Patrick is in Detroit, not London or Toronto.
  18. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Undoubtedly true of this rink, but there are a number of publicly owned (usually municipal) and operated rinks in the United States. Google: publicly owned and operated ice skating rinks in the United States.
  19. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    From the DSC web site: "The Detroit Skating Club is one of only a handful of clubs in the United States that owns and operates its own facility. The club is totally managed by the member elected Board of Directors."

    Jerod Swallow is the Managing Director of DSC and should be the one who authorizes who can utilize DSC ice as visiting skaters, coaches and/or choreographers, including the fees they must pay.

    ETA link to more photos of the visiting and resident skaters at Detroit SC before Worlds: http://web.icenetwork.com/photos/gallery.jsp?content_id=42499144
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  20. kimkom

    kimkom Two Pot Screamer

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    Has he not heard of "the curse"? :eek:
  21. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    And everybody can still use them if they pay for it. Not like they are owned by USFS and for exclusive use of American skaters.

    You can't compare it to the Russian system where the federation pays for pretty much everything for you, including your lunch.
  22. La La Candy

    La La Candy New Member

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    Very true - I wonder if there's anyone who can provide Chan with some guidance in this area. Someone he would listen to....such as Browning or Buttle - both of whom he seems to have a trusting/mentor like relationship with.


    I also wondered about this? I believe here in the USA you don't need to be certified, but most top coaches are educated/accredited through the PSA rating system. I do believe you need to be a member of the PSA to attend domestic competition. But yes, Skate Canada has required NCCP coaching certification levels that must be obtained to coach on Skate Canada club ice and to attend Skate Canada domestic competitions as a coach. I wondered how Johnson received coaching accreditation for Canadian nationals? Maybe as a foreign coach?
  23. purple skates

    purple skates Shadow dancing

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    DSC has three sheets of ice. There's probably plenty of ice time to go around, especially during the day when ice is underutilized.
  24. madm

    madm Active Member

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    USFS coaching requirements are described in detail here: http://usfigureskating.org/content.asp?menu=coaches&id=452

    Four Requirements
    • 1. U.S. Figure Skating Membership
      2. Coach Registration
      3. Continuing Education Requirement Compliance
      4. PSA Membership (for qualifying competitions only)
  25. La La Candy

    La La Candy New Member

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    Thanks for this madm. So I wonder..have we found a loop hole? Would Johnson even need USFS coaching certification? If she doesn't coach skaters on Team USA/qualifying competitions or coach on club ice/test skaters (I'm assuming she doesn't coach Patrick on the ice in skates...) then it looks like she doesn't need USFS certification.

    And we don't think she has accreditation with Skate Canada, because it would be extremely difficult to achieve NCCP certification without being a former skater....

    Lots of questions!

    I do hope Patrick finds a figure skating coach for the coming season...of course off ice teachers have a place, but I think having a technical coach on the team would be of huge benefit.
  26. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    My club requires all coaches on club sessions to be USFS certified. It doesn't matter if they stand at the boards or skate along. I believe they require this because USFS requires it of them (a lot of coaches were really upset by it, as we have a very low level club, and the club loses a lot of money due to this.)
    However, rink hosted freestyle or public sessions don't require anything to coach- not even insurance (my rink is a bit insane, IMO). And there is no fee paid to the rink by the coach, they are just happy to have the skaters there, and coaches attract skaters.

    So it really depends how DSC classifies their ice, and what the rink requires.
  27. Jenifer

    Jenifer Active Member

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    Kathy Johnson is listed on Patrick Chan's Skate Canada and ISU bios as his coach; clearly, Skate Canada is fine with her working in that capacity, whatever her certifications. As for Patrick needing "guidance" or a "real" skating coach, I think he knows what he needs (or wants) from his skating and the rest of his life better than us fans.
  28. madm

    madm Active Member

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  29. La La Candy

    La La Candy New Member

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    I don't think Skate Canada can control the coaching of their athletes outside of the country - but Skate Canada has rules for domestic coaches as mentioned by triple_toe:

    2. Important Reminder – Are You at Risk? (coaches/clubs)
    Skate Canada would like to remind clubs, skating schools, coaches, and members that Skate
    Canada rules state that only current registered Skate Canada coaches who are certified through
    the National Coach Certification Program (NCCP) are permitted to instruct members on Skate
    Canada club or skating school ice. Individuals referred to as choreographers, stylists, life
    coaches, ballet coaches, theater coaches, mental trainers, creative dance coaches, etc. do not
    meet the Skate Canada requirements to instruct members on Skate Canada club or skating
    school ice. To be clear, these individuals are not permitted to instruct members regardless of
    the individual’s position in the arena (from the boards, in the stands, etc.).
    Choreographers who meet the Skate Canada professional coach membership requirements and
    are currently registered professional coaches with Skate Canada may instruct on club or skating
    school ice. Failing to abide by Skate Canada rules may put all individuals involved at risk and could
    jeopardize the club or skating school’s membership with Skate Canada. Clubs and skating
    schools may choose to hire non skating professionals to offer off-ice instruction to their
    members. The individual must have his/her own liability insurance.


    What I take from the above is that Kathy Johnson would not be eligible to coach Patrick if he was training in Canada.

    The Skate Canada policy for coaching accreditation for events states:

    1.0 PROFESSIONAL COACHES

    1.1 FUNDING AND ACCREDITATION: In order to receive funding and accreditation from the
    Association, Skate Canada professional coaches must meet the following minimum
    standards:

    INTERNATIONAL, CANADIANS, CANADA GAMES: be NCCP Level 3 certified for ISU
    sanctioned International competitions, Canadian Figure Skating Championships and/or
    Canada Games.


    However, there is a foreign coach bullet - which I assume Johnson falls under... as it doesn't seem to require the foreign coach to have credentials with their home country association

    1.7 FOREIGN COACH ACCREDITATION: Foreign coaches (including other foreign individuals
    who work with figure skaters), who have not started coaching in a Skate Canada or
    sanctioned skating school, may apply to the Association for a Special Accreditation and
    Photo ID upon payment of the prescribed fee as set by the Board of Directors in
    connection with one or more particular events and/or competitions.


    And yes Jenifer, you are correct - I'm just a fan and don't know what Patrick personally wants or needs. I should have been more clear that it is only my opinion that he consult a technical coach...because as a fan I feel he's been struggling in that area. I'm sorry if my comments offended anyone. I'm new to FSU (although a long time lurker). I really enjoy the board and the insight / opinions of other fans - not to mention the level of knowledge is amazing and I find this board far more informative than any news articles.
  30. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    As La La Candy said, it's not about whether they're fine with her working with him, it's about the legalities of her coaching on a skating session in Canada within the confines of Skate Canada's regulations. She's not allowed to, regardless of whether they love her or hate her.
  31. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    So will she be credentialed for Worlds and able to sit in Kiss and Cry?
  32. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Clearly not given his jumps are going down the drain lately.

    And no, Kathy Johnson is not is a real coach. She has no background in skating whatsoever.
  33. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    dinakt and (deleted member) like this.
  34. Jenifer

    Jenifer Active Member

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    I would disagree about Patrick's jumps. From the sounds of some people here, you would think Patrick was the model of consistency until he left Christy Krall last year. I think the biggest difference in Patrick's results this year vs. last year is the improvement of his competitors rather than any real regression in his own skating. As for needing a jump coach, he still lists Eddie Shipstead on his bio, who seems to function in that capacity.

    Skaters' careers have ups and downs. Patrick has said that he felt he needed a change last spring and wanted to focus on different aspects of his skating this year. If worlds turns out to be a disaster, Patrick may decide to re-evaluate his training program, including coaches. Or he may be happy with how things are and prefer to be happy than train 24/7 with a coach he doesn't like. I don't know what's going on in Patrick's head. I guess my point is just that these skaters are people and that more goes into their decisions about how they run their day-to-day lives than just what we see on this ice.
  35. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, I agree with all that.
  36. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    The only thing that is "clear" as you put it is that you dont understand the connection that a strong psyche has with competition. Also, believe me, i just wanted him train recently and there is no such thing as him missing a jump in practice. He skates the WHOLE entire surface and garners the applause of not only the other skaters on his session ( who all seem to LOVE HIM) but also coaches like Tarasova. What's CLEAR is that his deal is mental NOT technical.
  37. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes:

    a) I have talked about this issue numerous times on this forum
    b) I study psychology and gave a presentation on applying sport psychology in figure skating at a sport psychology conference

    I don't have a crystal ball and have no idea how many jumps Chan does or doesn't do in practice.
  38. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Yet you do not hesitate to comment very negatively! Just saying.....
  39. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    However, I do not accuse other posters of made up shit. It's one thing to disagree with people on specific points, it's completely another to make blanket statements and accusations like this.

    And when somebody shares information that puts things in a different perspective, I acknowledge that.

    Chan seems even less consistent this season than before. If he is indeed landing all of his jumps in practice, then obviously the issue is psychological and not technical, yes.

    Is he really training hard and being very consistent most of the time in practice though (I don't disprove what arakwafan2006 has said but it's just one practice session that he/she has seen)? Weren't there some reports of him being booted by Krall because of not working hard enough and doing what he was told to? Or did I remember that wrong?
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
  40. La La Candy

    La La Candy New Member

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    I agree with Ziggy that Chan appears less consistent this season (in jumps). However, in my opinion, his overall skating continues to be as exquisite as ever.

    I am by no means an 'insider', but when we lived back east in Canada, we were members of the Granite Club. I first saw Patrick when he was just a young pre-novice skater and training under Osborne Colson. As he is today, Patrick was just a beautiful skater who clearly stood out as being exceptionally gifted. When Mr. Colson passed we attended a Celebration of Life at Ryerson theater...Patrick and his family were there and Patrick was openly devastated by the loss. His emotions were quite bare and at times he was in tears. Since moving to the USA I have not seen Patrick in a training environment - just at a few competitions....but I guess I have a soft spot for him remembering that young man dealing with the loss of his coach. And of course, as a fan, I think he's an incredible talent and a master of the blade.

    I wish him the best of luck at Worlds!